Liam Thorp

And what this is doing is saying that, yes, by helping with the climate agenda, we can actually also help with your climate.

energy bills with your you know coming out of fuel poverty with making your life easier and i think it's been a long time coming and i think that's really important and if you look at the reaction from the sector today from energy and from finance it's been largely welcome don't get me wrong it doesn't it doesn't always go far enough you know there will be some people that will be sad to see that there's no plan to phase out gas boilers and really kind of wean ourselves fully off fossil fuels

But I think helping people to install, you know, whether it's heat pumps or solar panels that will actually help their bills and selling it as a saving for them rather than a sort of altruistic move for the planet is the way to go, really, because people are still really suffering.

It's really sad to say, but barely a day goes past in this job as a regional journalist that we don't have someone coming to us in a desperate situation, living in a rented property,

mold dripping through the ceiling, cold, often with children.

And they really feel like they have nowhere to turn.

There's very little in terms of council housing in the country.

So people are forced into the private sector.

And unfortunately, there are many landlords who don't obey their responsibilities.

Many do, but plenty of the ones that we come across don't.

And people just don't really feel like they have any say in it.

So at least including them in this plan and making sure it's not just for people who are home and is for renters as well, who have a right to live, just as much right as anyone else to live in warm, safe homes, I think is a start.

But as you say, Nish, it's obviously not going to tackle or address that massive, massive systemic issue that we have as part of our widespread housing crisis in this country.

But it's good to see renters involved.

I actually think it's becoming a big problem for Nigel Farage.

At one point you are the insurgent kind of, you know, you're outside of the noise.

I mean, I don't agree with this because actually I don't think Nigel Farage is in any way that what he tries to portray himself as and what he quite often successfully does do as being kind of outside of the kind of elite environment.

But that's the image that they want.

And that's the image that they're finding successful at the moment in terms of this insurgency into the kind of traditional two-party situation.

But if you're just bringing on all the Tories from the last 14 years, from the establishment that you apparently are here to disrupt, then that's a bit of a mixed message, really, isn't it?