Lindsie Chrisley

Welcome to the shit show. Things are going to get weird. It's your fave villain, Kale Lowry. And you're listening to Barely Famous. We have a very special guest today on Barely Famous, and I'm very excited. You know her. You love her. She has hair extensions. Not anymore. You don't have hair extensions. Not anymore. I took Lux's advice. And you cut your hair. And I cut it off. I love that.

I'm not asking you to speak for Joe, but it's because she doesn't have a voice in our co-parenting, whatever discussions they're having. She's not part of the ones that I've asked her. to be a part of it. I've asked Joe, there was a point where I reached out to Joe and I said, V needs to be involved. Like V's not showing up to anything that for Isaac. I mean, this was a long time ago.

She's not coming to games. I think she went to a handful of games maybe after I said something because I was like, What is going on? Like people have this like false perception of her level of involvement. And that's a problem. Like if that's the case, then say that on the fucking podcast. Say on the podcast, you know what, Kale? Here's why I can't have these conversations.

I thought it was a good idea. I thought that this was going to be the premise of the show. But come on the podcast and say it. So because you're allowing me to be villainized for something that you set up.

Right. Sake of the story. Thank you.

No, I tried. In my opinion, I feel like there were several instances where I tried to bring things up And she shut it down. If you guys hear a sound, it's the air conditioner. For some reason, we can't turn it off. So if you guys hear that like whooshing, we apologize.

I think the reason why I'm still talking about it and sort of stewing over it is that I don't feel like the end of the era episode was in full transparency by both parties. And I think that I'm still being villainized. I sent V an email shortly after we decided to end the podcast. And it was, I mean, it was a novel. But I spelled out all of my feelings in very clear, direct communication.

And I CC'd Alessandra on it because people don't understand that I actually hired Alessandra for Killer before all of this ensued. So people right now are now dragging Alessandra into it. And that's not really fair for her, for us, for anybody, for Vee. V knew about her position working for Killer.

I CC'd her on it because I was trying to make it clear that I wanted to be clear on all the episodes discussing this whole situation. And the only way to do that was to include Alessandra so that she could understand the level of comfort that I was at in talking about all of this.

I also made it explicitly clear on a recorded meeting with me, Kristen, Alessandra, and V exactly what my feelings were and that I would be speaking on it as soon as I feel comfortable and that nobody was going to tell me no. So I just want that to also be very clear. V was made aware that I was going to talk about this to any extent that I wanted to.

So I sent V an email before the end of baby mamas being very clear, being very direct, being all of those things. And I'm not going to like pause so that you guys can read it because I think that it's really personal. But I mean, it was a hefty fucking email.

So her knowing exactly what I feel, the personal reasons, the resentment, the business reasons, the business resentment was all very clearly and directly spelled out. And so her silence right now over these last couple of weeks, allowing people to continue to villainize me when it wasn't me. is really upsetting.

But I made it very clear. I sent this email to V in the beginning of October, making it very – this was the same week as our tour date. Texas date? No, Philly date.

It's very clearly spelled out in detail every single reason with an elaboration and also making it very clear that none of this is about Joe.

And I just think that on top of so much resentment when I look at kind of where I am in my life. I talked about this on other episodes with other cast members about like what my friend's role was in, you know, a lot of my teen mom roles. My friends became huge parts of my story because I didn't have family members to talk to and I didn't always necessarily have a partner to talk to.

And because of that, these people and exes and their partners are growing these massive followings on social media and then turning around and weaponizing it against me when I am the reason why you have that. And I think that that is where the resentment also started. So this is not just... the lack of co-parenting. This is not just baby mamas. There are so many layers.

I think... We should tell everybody the beginning to the end of Baby Mama's No Drama from start to finish from your perspective.

And I think just realizing that I had the resentment in the first place, and then also realizing that people think that it's something it's not when you're not seeing the back end. A lot of the viewers, the audience of baby mamas or coffee combos or any of these podcasts are looking at it and it's like, well, V built that. No, V did not build that. And it wasn't 50%. And then I was...

I gave her 50% of a business that was very successful. And all of that is being weaponized against me. And I don't think that is fair. I am a villain in very certain situations. But I also think a lot of the situations, and I think Becky can attest to it, you can attest to it, is that a lot of my fallouts are not just my doing.

A lot of them are either mutual or a lot of times they did me fucking dirty. And that's across the board.

I don't think I was that person in general. I think that I have done shitty things just like every other fucking person. I think I've made poor choices just like any other person. But I think that people have really leaned into...

Like I've leaned into the villain role that I've sort of been pigeonholed into, but I truly haven't made more, more poor decisions or horrible, had truly horrible behavior compared to anybody else. It's just, I think it's magnified in some ways.

I also, I, I'm resentful and this is, I don't know if I've ever said this, but I mean, none of the people who capitalize off of my following have ever thanked me in any way, shape or form. V has never said thank you to me. Joe has never said thank you to me. Javi has never said thank you to me. Lauren has never said thank you to me. And it's not necessarily that I need to thank you.

It's just to be acknowledged that you are able to gain or benefit in some way for me exploiting my life. I think I have sat on that for so long and not one time. I knew how much V was making every month. I know that that house that she moved into was solely because of baby mamas. So to sit here and villainize me and stay silent, how could I not be resentful?

I'm angry by her tone.

Well, it's infuriating for you to be crying about a podcast ending. And then remaining silent for weeks following when I made it explicitly clear. We did a phone call. We did recording meetings. I sent an email. It was very clear where all of this was coming from. And I think the more that I sit on it, the angrier I get because more things keep getting put into play, right?

I responded to a comment on social media of someone saying that I needed to end this as amicable. I needed to end this as amicably as possible because V probably has dirt on me. I want it to be very clear that it's the other way around. I said that and that is the truth. And this is all of this episode is not even speaking on the truth.

Everything that I've said in this episode is the surface layer of all of the things that I'm feeling. And it's the surface layer of all of the resentment, the reason why we ended. But furthermore, I want to add, because as time goes on, I think of more things.

When we first ended Baby Mamas, the first time when I found out what she did with Hobby Behind My Back, she moved out of the office that we shared together. But when we ended it amicably and professionally and we were like, okay, actually we could keep this going, we were still recording in person.

So she was coming into the office and we were recording in person at the point that I was like, okay, but if we're recording in person, that is a Baby Mamas venture. That is baby mama's time using my office. And we have a whole entire room that can only ever be used for baby mamas. She refused to pay any portion of that. And to me, that also is a smack in the face.

So I was sort of, that also adds to the layers of resentment was like, You're benefiting in all of these ways. Your social media has grown 200, 300,000 followers. You are not paying a dime towards the office. And yeah, I understand you moved out of it from your personal businesses, but baby mama's is still being recorded there, right? Like the room cannot be used for anything else.

So baby mama started when I was sitting at my house in Middletown, which I only lived for a short time. I was sitting in my living room. V texted me and said, we should do a podcast talking about co-parenting and call it Baby Mamas No Drama. Timeline of Baby Mamas and V texting me was 2019 into 2020. I don't know the exact timing on what that was.

I don't share the same views for you because it's just a very different dynamic and we started together and we kind of like created the whole like foundation. But it's really upsetting because I look at all the layers of it and I just – I don't know. I have a hard time with it. And so then when it just – it felt like you're getting 50% of a business.

I'm paying for X, Y, and Z. I come with the following. I exploit my life. I am – There's just – there's so many layers to it and I don't know. I don't know that I'll get over it for a really long time.

Yeah, we don't have a co-host agreement. We don't have – oh, and that's also something that I wanted to talk about. I wanted to touch on that was the not speaking part. out when she sees all the hate that I'm getting, knowing that she fully and willingly signed everything over to me with no questions asked, you're not even saying that out loud.

You're not even going on your platforms and saying any... You're speaking more volumes to everything that I have felt and you're actually validating exactly how I feel about you as a person towards me. By not saying anything and you're not, I mean, people aren't reading between the lines and I think that they're never going to be able to.

And so this is probably going to be the last time I ever speak on it because I can't convince people to see what I see and what we see and what, I mean, I don't expect you to hate her, but like at the end of the day, like you did see things and you were privy to information.

100%.

I agree with that. And I know that the people listening to this podcast might be like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? But when you guys are looking through Spotify or Apple or wherever you listen to your podcast and you see the different categories, it is a big deal to us because we basically replicated everything.

When we very quickly did not talk about co-parenting in our co-parenting situation and then we were moving on to other people's co-parenting, but it was a very, very small fraction of the show, it became the Teemu version of Coffee Combos very quickly. And so then we had to create this master sheet with all the shows and we had to make sure that podcast topics –

and categories and pop culture or current events. They all, they could not cross over because that was a huge problem. It was like, I had this really great thing going with Lindsay. Let's turn around and we're going to basically turn that into baby mamas, which I agree. Like we, we did not come prepared to talk, talk about co-parenting, whether it be ours or anybody else's. We really didn't. We

I made a personal decision that Kristen did not necessarily agree with to not tell you. And I think at that time you and I were not, I'm not going to say we weren't getting along. We fight like sisters and we always have. And I was concerned about your reaction at that time. And that's the honest to God truth was that I did not know how you were going to react to it.

writing into us about their co-parenting but again even that was such a small fraction of the show and the whole thing was baby mama's no drama at the point that we at the point that we started the podcast and v decided very early on or quickly that she was not going to be sharing anything was a point where we needed to have a conversation about where what the direction of the show was and if it needed to be renamed or if we needed to end it right then and there because truly as a whole we did not talk about co-parenting much

People – I felt that. I think the listeners felt that. And we would get – when we turned a lot of the show into co-parentee, people were – they picked up on it very quickly. And they were like, something is wrong. They're only talking about other people. They're only talking about co-parentee because – People grew to like and listen to a similar podcast to Coffee Combos.

And that wasn't fair to you. It wasn't fair to us at Coffee Combos. And I'm not blaming V for that. Like I don't want this portion of it. I'm not blaming V. It just – we never had a beating to discuss, oh, we need to – Figure it out. Yeah. I mean like we had a meeting, but it was more so over crossover than it was about –

you know, acknowledging the fact that we weren't talking about our co-parenting and that talking about other people's co-parenting wasn't the vibe.

I also want to clarify that for anyone who doesn't know about that. What happened was Javi and I were getting divorced. But prior to us getting divorced, we were actively trying for a baby after Lincoln. This was, I believe, in 20,000. This was in 2015. And we were actively trying for a baby. I miscarried on Veterans Day, which the anniversary of that is coming up next week.

So I felt like if I told you ahead of time, you would potentially talk me out of it. That's how I felt.

Um, miscarried on veterans day and that baby was actively tried for. I personally, and I've said this a hundred times and I will say it until I'm blue in the face for me. I'm not judging anyone else's situation. I would never put myself in a position where I didn't know who the father was. I'm not doing that.

That's never going to be me despite whatever rumors you've heard, despite how many men I've slept with. I'm never putting myself in a position where I don't know who the father is. So for V to have come up with that on her fucking own. Wait, I was not. I thought it was just a leaked pregnancy. I don't know the details.

She met him in the parking lot.

It was Target.

And told him that I was pregnant. He knew that I was pregnant. But that the baby may not have been his. And I got an abortion. It wasn't a miscarriage. It was an abortion. Let's let that sink in. Where did you come up with that? Where did you? I've never gotten to the bottom of that. I was told what was said, how they met up at night. Joe didn't know about it.

And that's all I have to say.

And Javi used that, kept it in his back pocket, which, I mean, something I would do. But the horrible thing about that was that I blamed Bone. Oh, so you blamed someone else. He insinuated that it was someone very close to me and that it was someone that I am best friends with. And so I was under the impression that it was Bone.

So I went directly to Bone, and Bone and I were not – I mean, she was like, no. But he insinuated that it was her because he kept saying – your best friend has skeletons in her closet. So he's like dropping hints that it was bone, get it? Skeletons, bone. So I'm having this underlying distrust for bone, someone who didn't do it because y'all colluded in a parking lot for what?

Why would you do that to me?

Oh, I don't remember if it was DMs or if it was text, but it was to meet up. And I was told that it was at night in the Target parking lot. Joe did not know what was transpiring, what was occurring.

At the time, there was no beef between V and I when I asked her about it because I was sitting in the office when I found out. Javi told me via text in an argument. So I walked from one room in the office to another and looked at her dead in the face. And actually, I put them in a group chat. And then I walked to the room. And then confronted it? Mm-hmm.

And at that point, she had said she was upset because she thought that I leaked her pregnancy with Vivi five or six years earlier.

I also have that. I share that same perspective, like looking back and knowing what I know now, but also in such a full range of clear vision. And I've been saying that people are very, very upset by me saying that V and I were never friends and V and I were never co-parents. And I'm not saying that to be a dick. That is the truth. We don't co-parent and we were not friends. We never have been.

If you felt that way, you should have came and said something.

She told me that was the reason why she did it in the first place. Also, I just want to make it clear that me leaking someone else's pregnancy doesn't benefit me in any way, shape, or form.

If I'm going to leak something about anything, it's probably for my own purpose.

financial gain um and it's going to be about myself so i'm not going to some leaking v's pregnancy does i did not i would not have gotten paid for that i don't think i think at some point beyond the peak of teen mom like you don't get paid for stuff anymore is my guess um i mean i don't know that for sure that's what's so interesting to me people will be like oh well so and so told it and they got paid to do it it's like but like if you got paid from experience

Well, you've never been on Barely Famous, so welcome to Barely Famous.

when teen mom was at its peak, in order to get paid, you had to go on the record. So if you thought that I leaked it, that means one, I wasn't on the record, which means I most likely didn't get paid. So, and it just, none of that adds up what it doesn't benefit me to leak these pregnancy.

And also at the time I was, I think when she was having, when she was with pregnant with Vivi, like Javi and I were like, OK, as far as I remember, I got like what benefit was that to me? So then how did that all like play out? So did who went? I think that I never really fully processed it the way that I should have.

I never took time to like move on and like get over it was very much like in order to stick it to hobby.

and I confronted V face to face and she said everything that she had to say, I was like, okay, you told me and now I can go back to Javi and say, oh, well, like it was more to stick it to Javi that, okay, well, I'm going to stay in business with V. V admitted it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The fucked up part now looking back is that when we did business together, she should have came to me and said, by the way, This happened. I don't want this to come back because you came to me with a business idea and we started a business and we signed contracts for a business and you never mentioned it and you never thought that this was going to come bite you in the ass. That's crazy.

That's crazy to trust Javi to put that much – like you put that much trust into Javi and you started a business with me. Did you forget that you did that? Javi is coming for us after this, by the way. I don't think so because I actually don't think that Javi had a lot of fault in this outside of making me believe that it was Bone. I think it would be wrong.

And he was hurt. We were young. Also, to say that I wouldn't have – if I had someone that was willing to give me information, which they did when Javi was, like, accused of cheating on me overseas, people came to me and told me that. Like, I was going through an active divorce. I wanted to seek out information that would benefit me or make me feel better or – give me any level of justification.

So I actually give Javi grace in that because if that was me, I would absolutely want to know what you had to say.

So I'm not mad at Javi. I'm just mad at him for insinuating that it was bone.

There's a difference between lying and keeping something private until you're ready to talk about it. They're very different and I was always going to talk about it.

It also is in poor taste, in my opinion, for y'all to expect me to tell it on a podcast before I'm ready. Like I was always going to talk about it. And we also have to understand that a new person, a new party was introduced at this time. And I was leaving reality TV, which was a huge deal for me. I was at the... When I got pregnant with Rio was... the worst point of my life ever.

I mean, the depression was so fucking real that I couldn't have talked about it if I wanted to. I was barely showing up for Coffee Combos podcast at all. And then to have that leaked and exploited and everything else on top of my depression and, you know, everything that I was going through with Chris, it was just not a good time for me to talk about it.

And then with the twins, I wanted to be able to enjoy that pregnancy without it being leaked possibly. And then that didn't happen. And so it was, there's a difference between Lying and being private. There's a difference in my opinion.

We've been friendly. And I think at the time it was like, we're friendly, so we're friends, but they are not the same thing. And so looking back, we should have never had a, we should have never started a co-parenting podcast, especially because I look back and I see you and I were talking about co-parenting on Coffee Combos.

I think it was more a learning curve and trying to adjust to the new parameters and deciding what I was comfortable with sharing.

If I was going to pivot from the level of – we'll call it exploitation or level of transparency, that was the time to do it. That was the point in my life where I needed to make the – any adjustments that I wanted to make in the level of transparency and privacy of what I was willing to share in my life and things like that, that was the time to do it. And I feel like I should have been –

Maybe I should have been more honest or like forthcoming about that sort of the gears turning on that. Maybe that's where I sort of went wrong.

Like I wasn't trying to – and so then people commenting on my stuff and – because I saw the troll page comments saying that I was lying about my pregnancy and I just don't think they're the same. Also, if I ever lied, it was to protect my own peace and it was to protect my own privacy at that time trying to figure out and find my footing leaving reality TV.

That was a huge – you all have to understand the level – the income of that show when I left. We're not talking – small chunks of change. Like I left huge amounts of money to pivot and change my life and change direction and do all of that. But I think, and maybe I should have spoke to it sooner than right now, just that sort of pivoting or changing. But I,

I actually don't think I ended up changing the level of transparency. I think I've been more transparent than I was on Teen Mom because I can elaborate.

I agree. I'll agree with that. It's been sort of like this, I don't know, work in progress and deciding what is best. How much should I share? I don't want to villainize her, but I also think that her speaking, not speaking at all about the villainization of me and Kale is the problem on this whole thing is really weighing very heavily on me.

And I think that I wanted people to hear your perspective because people do also know about the beef that the beef between you and me.

The Ohio live show was a prime example of us being friendly and not friends. V and I don't hang out outside of the podcast. We didn't really have until the last year and a half. And that was like strictly us not seeing eye to eye on co-parenting things between Joe and myself and then her involvement or lack thereof, or, you know, that, Just to clarify, because people love to twist and run.

V and I also did not agree. We didn't see eye to eye on how to get to Ohio and how to pay for Ohio. And we didn't see eye to eye on anything. She was also, I heard through the grapevine, very upset that she didn't want to be in Ohio. She made it explicitly clear that she did not want to be in Ohio. She wanted the Philly show so that she didn't have to pay to go to Ohio.

And I, again, a smack in the face, the sense of entitlement was very upsetting to learn that you want to do these live shows, but you don't want to spend the money to do them. But so long as they're on my dime, it's okay. But you wanted the Philly show so that you didn't have to travel. You absolutely did not want to be in Ohio. You're pissed off that I didn't invite you to the Philly show.

She was not blindsided, though, in any way, shape or form. She was, I would say, surprised. Because at that point, there was no beef. There was at that point, the business beef between y'all had subsided and y'all were cool. And so she wasn't blindsided, I think at all that I'm aware of. I knew you were there, but I, it was a surprise to me, but I knew before you got pulled up on stage.

And so it, but none of it was, it wasn't like a blindsided in a bad way. Y'all were already cool.

No, I don't think we ever thought that, though.

I loved Ohio. Yeah. No, I loved Ohio as a whole. I didn't – I was tired. But I didn't go out with you guys. You and me hung out outside of, like, whatever. And, like, that's fine. I have no – The beef had subsided for so long, but I think we never really worked again. We weren't transparent about the beef from the beginning. And so people have speculated that y'all still had beef and y'all didn't.

And so she wasn't blindsided in a bad way. She was surprised, I feel like, in a good way.

Can we get merch that says National Bamboozler? Because you posted that on your Instagram and it's lived rent-free in my head ever since.

Also in hindsight, no. and with a lot of personal resentment with the business of baby mamas, I also look back and I see that you know, realizing now that people are commenting saying that, you know, V built 50% of this platform and now Becky is encroaching on that. I beg to differ. That's not fair to Becky. No, but I now see your perspective on that side of it, right?

I don't... I feel like... I feel like truly, if I'm being fully transparent, because y'all are making fun of me for saying that because of the pregnancy stuff, like, oh, were you fully transparent when you didn't tell your pregnancies? They're very different.

But in full transparency, I feel like V has been the national bamboozler because people really think that she has, we both collectively, both of us, I can't solely place the blame on her. We have presented her and our co-parenting dynamic in a way that is not accurate. But I only know that now. I didn't know that in the midst of it too.

So like I also want to speak to that is like when we were out here presenting us as co-parents. Lying in the streets. And like I don't like that. But we weren't doing – like we thought we were something we weren't. It's kind of like my relationship with Chris where I was in a relationship with him and he wasn't in a relationship with me. Like I thought that it was something it wasn't.

I think we both thought it was something it wasn't.

Yeah. You trying to save baby mamas, I... And you almost had me. You almost had me. I will say that. Lindsay was... But you know what? I think from a contractual and business company standpoint, other people recognized changes that needed to be made before all of this personal stuff was going on in terms of the dynamic of the show, the energy on the show, the content of the show.

was severely lacking.

Oh, did you say this to her too?

Because in the beginning, when you found out about baby mamas and you were blindsided and you were really upset, rightfully so, I was like, what is what in my head? I didn't say this, but like in my head, I was like, what is Lindsay talking about? I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand.

I also would like to say that I do think that I brought most of that following to baby mamas. And so to say that she built 50% of it and Becky is capitalizing off of something that V built 50% of is not fair to say. I do not agree with that. I don't think that. It was 50-50 across – V and I's business, she got 50% of the profit, but she did not bring 50% to the table.

And so there are very different things. And I agree with you. I don't think that – and I also don't like that Alessandra is being pulled into it either because prior to all of this, Alessandra has been working for us for three years. And so – and her and V had a private conversation about her working for Killer. Before all of this transpired.

So I also don't want her to be brought into this because that's also not fair. And, you know, V and Lindsay have no beef as far as I'm aware. Becky and V have no beef as far as I'm aware. And Alessandra and V are still friends. I do see a world where I can work through my... and my feelings.

And I absolutely will be addressing this in therapy as soon as I get back home, because this is something that is consuming me in full transparency. I hate, I'm never going to say that ever again after this episode, but in, in all actuality and in, in, in, in truth, this is consuming me.

It's, I think about it every single day, not even just a little bit of the day, but it's, it's taking up big portions of my day and I need to work through it through. I, I need to work through this in therapy. And I say all that to say that I do think that there is a world where V and I can still work together in a capacity that killer supports and Vibin. I support Vibin.

I support Alessandra and V individually. But I do think that there needs to be at some point a conversation about I think it needs to be acknowledged by V so that she understands where I'm coming from. And I just don't think because we haven't had all of the things that I've said to her have never like she hasn't ever really said anything back.

You came to Coffee Combos and we built Coffee Combos off of both of us being where we were at. You already had a following.

Well, she has disagreed with a lot, but never really given her position or It's like it's sort of like when someone has a problem with every single thing being done or said, but comes up with no solutions. It's like I'm going to fight you on every single one of these things, but I'm not offering any solutions and I'm not offering any middle ground. So that's where we're at.

And I do think that there is a world where we could work together in a way that I'm helping vibe in. But I just think that right now we need space and I absolutely need to work through this in therapy.

The difference between, and this is going to V if you're listening, this is going to everybody listening. The difference between Lindsay and I starting a podcast and paying our podcast dues was that V came in with a following that already came from me. Her following started from me being on 16 and Pregnant and Teen Mom. So she already shares all of those followers with me.

I found a quote sort of recently that really just put me in my feels. And so I'm going to read it to end this episode. Y'all go subscribe to the Southern tea also to vibe it and kind of thrive in and coffee combos airs every Thursday. Patreon has the visuals of all of these episodes. This says create the villain, enable the villain, praise the villain, then punish the villain for being a villain.

Of course, she's gained her own over the years. A very small fraction of those are on her own, but that already is from me. Now, Lindsay and I have built success in the podcasting world. And then V comes in. I share this now, but I didn't feel, I didn't know what you were saying back then. And so I couldn't understand your level of upset or discomfort with it.

because I think that the difference is that we have a show together, so we don't necessarily need to, but in this particular instance, I feel like we have reached the threshold where it is pretty necessary.

I have a lot of resentment because, and I've said this already, I'll say it again. I want it to be very clear and I don't want it to be as emotionally charged. These people. Joe, Javi, Lauren, V, have all capitalized off of me exploiting my life. And it's really upsetting now. And it's very difficult for me to not build resentment for that.

So when people, when I read comments today saying, oh, that is 50% of V's platform. No, it was, I will say 98% my platform, but also a portion of that 98% was our platform from Coffee Combos Podcast.

And I now agree. And I'm sorry that I... felt like I couldn't be honest with you about it to begin with. And I think that I should have, you've always been sort of like a voice of reason. And I think that you do have good advice.

And I think now it was a, it would have been a better idea for me to come to you and basically present the idea and get your advice or your even perspective or feelings on it. Not that I necessarily needed your blessing, but I think from a business point, you do make very good points and I should have done that. And I maybe wouldn't be here today.

That's where the resentment came in, started to come in from a business and financial standpoint was... I was presented this podcast idea under false pretenses and thought that it was going to be an extension of our co-parenting and our personal lives in that way.

So when I listen to the end of the era episode of Baby Mama's No Drama and V is sad and V is crying and V is talking about the privacy of her family, I call bullshit. That was really, really upsetting because I came off very abrasive, but that's because I took a page from your book and was like, let me be direct and clear about this.

It was not, I don't think, perceived the way that it should have been, in my opinion. I think my tone should have been different, but also people needed to listen to what I was saying. I was presented this idea under false pretenses.

You don't come to me and say that we're going to start a co-parenting podcast and then say that you didn't want to share because you wanted to protect your family's privacy. That goes against the entire reasoning to have the podcast to begin with.

Can I also add something right here? Because you and I have had a sister-like dynamic and we've been closer in certain periods and we've been business partners in certain periods and we've fought in certain periods, but we've always come back. You are privy to information that I have shared with you over the years in that V has always had a lack of role in co-parenting.

I think the problem is that when we are not fully transparent, people are left to their own devices to fill holes, to make assumptions, to come up with their own narrations. And obviously, we know that there is a group of people that will... Across the board, they believe what they want to believe, right? Like, we know that.

I don't think that I was putting two and two together until the end of Baby Mamas. Does that make sense? Like, I was saying it to you from a friend perspective, unrelated to any podcasting stuff. Like, V doesn't co-parent with us, but I wasn't even hearing myself. And then... I should have in hindsight, obviously I'm like, Oh wow. Like she was never co-parenting, but I had shared that with you.

And I think that also for you gave you perspective on like, wait, why is she doing this? If I know this, but she's doing this and they're saying this and they're presenting this, but these not actually co-parenting. So what this doesn't, none of this makes sense. You saw that before anybody else saw that.

Yeah. But I don't think we realized it because we thought being friendly was co-parenting. We thought being friendly was being friends. I mean, it's like the same way when people in general decide, you know, they don't decide, but they come to this realization in their late 20s or their 30s and they're like, wait, those are not my friends. They're my acquaintances, right?

And you have this come to Jesus in your life and you're like, wait, and all of the things are starting to align. It was sort of like that.

And that's where I missed the mark. And that's where I'm acknowledging that this is not solely V's fault. This is also my fault for not acknowledging some of these things and not... Speaking up sooner, I also, once I realized this and I started building resentment, I wasn't going directly to V in the beginning because I kept thinking, oh, it'll get better. It will become friends.

And then we had the office together. We had that first big falling out when I realized what she did behind my back with my ex-husband. And That sort of severed a lot.

I feel we should have ended the business right there, but then because we ended it so amicably and we were so professional about it, I was like, okay, if she can own this and we can also end this the way it is, why are we going to end the business? And so it's sort of come in waves. And then at one point, I finally hit my wall and I went directly to V and I said, what the fuck are we doing?

We are not friends. Like we are not co-parents. We are not any of this. Like we do not hang out. We don't have conversations outside of business. We don't even talk co-parenting until the last like year and some change, maybe close to two years. It was like, you know, personally speaking on the co-parenting front was like, Joe was not doing his job and,

And then when other things started to happen, V didn't say anything to me. And it wasn't until she was directly impacted by this that then she's coming forward and saying this, this, this, and this. that I really was like, this is absolutely nothing like what I thought it was.

I also, speaking to that, I don't ever expect anyone to air out their dirty laundry to the extent that I do, right? Like, I don't even expect you to do that. Never have. But when we start a co-parenting podcast, I do expect us to be able to talk about the scenarios in a way that we're all comfortable with, that we are being transparent about the struggles, right?

Like, it doesn't have to be the nitty gritty details down to like the... my new little, you know, things that have occurred, but we should be able to say, okay, V and I just recently went through a huge struggle with co-parenting. Here's the gist of it. And here's how we worked through it. That is the level that I would have been comfortable with, but that wasn't even being done.

It was very much like, I can't speak on Joe. I can't speak on his behalf. I can't speak for him. I'm not, there was no speaking about it. But I was expected to give baby mamas my pregnancies, my relationship. There was a conversation that occurred behind my back about not why I wasn't giving that to baby mamas.

And I think that after we get through...

And I had said, if I was going to give it to any show other than Barely Famous, it would be Coffee Combos. Because that is the mothership of all of these podcasts.

this month of episodes like I never want to talk about any of this ever again because not because I don't want to talk about it but it's like I'm just like it's tired and it's like I cannot spend any more time convincing people what is the truth so I I brought Lindsay on Barely Famous we collectively decided that this was a good place to talk about this because well

I mean, that's an idea. That was not something that we ever discussed that I remember. I mean, Kristen, do we ever talk about having Joe come on? Maybe one time we talked about bringing him on to potentially have him speak up and she was not with it. I think there was one time that I'm like vaguely remembering. And I just kept saying to her, why are you not speaking for yourself?

I do. Yeah. Yeah, I do. You guys have probably experienced some of that with other cast members. You guys can probably relate where certain people get more airtime than others and, you know, it's like... okay, I've put in X amount of time, so I should be getting that too.

I believe it was season five, the producer that I worked with on the show had come to me and my ex-husband, now my ex-husband, he was not my ex-husband at the time, but came to us and asked if we would be willing to take some of the episodes for storyline B. And because they had it set up like storyline A and storyline B for every episode. Really?

Yeah, that's way different. Actually, I want to talk about that with y'all in just a second. So my dad was not okay with that. He was like, no, we're not going to do that. We're going to continue running things the way that they have been running. And so... it just never felt truly authentic to me because my husband wasn't involved and that was my life at the time.

And so when I'm not showing that part, it almost allowed me to live a double life.

It perpetrated that in a sense because it was like, I'm doing all of these things without my husband and then I'm going back home and it's a completely different life than what I'm doing on TV.

what are these intentions are they pure are they not that would like literally that would drive me nuts so for the biggest portion of the show that i participated in was around 20 between 2015 and 2017 i filed for divorce for the first time in 2017 and took my son his name's jackson to nashville and lived with my parents for a little while oh and was still actively filming

that did feel most authentic to me because I was there every day. Right. And my parents were walking through what I was going through with me every day.

Or was that... Me telling my parents that I was going to get a divorce? Yes. And then I kind of want to speak on how we did our interviews. And I don't know... Y'all do... What is it called? Like the selfie... We do like diary camps. Diary camps. Which I love y'all's diary camps, by the way. Yeah. We did not do it like that.

So to answer your question about covering it on the show, they did a scene in my parents' living room with me walking in and telling them that I was getting divorced.

Oh, in the legal stuff? No, I was not involved.

And that was very hard for me because I felt like... Everybody else got to do the fun things on the show that weren't heavy. And then to have me go in and tell my parents that I was getting divorced, it just always felt like I was a part of a heavy story.

I was not involved in that. It was just them. None of the kids were involved. I mean, involved in the sense of going to trial and stuff. We were all there. But as far as the legalities of the situation, my parents were indicted.

And that just made it really, really hard. So... I always ask production, hey, like when we are doing these heavier scenes, can we please schedule the interviews that are consistent with these scenes that you guys are going to need during that week? Because once that scene is over... emotionally you go through all these emotions and especially with like divorce, right?

So I was so back and forth with my ex-husband that I didn't even really know if it's what I wanted. It felt like it was the right thing that I needed to do. And I knew that I needed to make some type of forward progress. Right. So even if it was the wrong choice, at least I was walking through those emotions and it didn't feel permanent because it's like, okay, well, this is just a divorce filing.

If I really don't want this, I don't have to follow through with it, but I'm going to see how I feel once I file for it. I leave, we're disconnected, all of these things. I go and do this scene and it's not until seven days later that they filmed the interview and I I'm already like, I don't think I want to get divorced.

Yeah. You need to catch it in the moment. Like not. Yeah. Like the diary cam, I feel like would have been great for something like that to kind of follow the, the following days of that instead of doing a sit down interview. And so I get into it with production because I'm like, I'm not in the same place as what I was when I did that scene.

and therefore this does not feel authentic, and I'm a fraud for coming on here and saying what I am currently saying so that it matches with this scene. Yeah, because now I'm lying. Now I'm lying.

I don't. I think some of... Just my actions, my mindset, the life that I was living versus what he was living was just not aligning. And do I think that we would be divorced today if I never got into entertainment? No, I don't think we would.

But I think because I did the TV show. That started separating our lives. He was living a corporate life, doing all of the corporate things. I had a little bit of resentment for that because I'm like, if this TV thing goes away, he has built like all of these years in the corporate world. And then I'm going to have nothing.

Yeah.

So then there was like resentment that was starting to build there. And I traveled with, my son went with me everywhere for filming the show until it was time for him to start kindergarten. So not only was I filming the show, I was taking him everywhere with me.

And so that's a lot, a lot of resentment that was being built. And then when I started the podcast, it was okay at first because I was home more. Yeah. Um, and I do feel like I had more control over what I was doing, but at the same time, it still was a division of like our lives didn't, they no longer aligned.

He did.

Okay. Good. He was in full support of me doing the podcast. He was not in support of me doing the TV show at all.

At all.

Yeah, he did not. It sounds very toxic.

divorce. My parents divorced whenever I was six years old and they had a very toxic divorce. Like they still hate each other today and they've been divorced for like your biological mom. Yeah. Okay. And I think just like from that and knowing that I wanted, I put so much pressure on myself in my marriage from never wanting to be my parents in that situation. And

And then watching my marriage like slip away because I'm choosing to be on this show with my family and then wanting to fit in with my family but also wanting to be the wife that I needed to be to my husband, I did feel like pulled both ways.

And I don't necessarily think that they – I don't think if you asked my ex-husband today, do you feel like you were pulling her? He would probably say no. If you asked my parents today, if they felt like they were pulling me, I think they would say no. I think it was an internal struggle that I was dealing with trying to participate in both of those things in my life.

No.

No, but I think that they were just in such different life phases than what I was dealing with. So my sister was still in high school. Okay. She did the show until 2022 or 20. Also not that long ago. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. I would say known in Atlanta, my dad as a businessman was known. But as far as like thoughts on TV was never, like we never saw that coming.

Yeah. It just went on for a really long time. Wow. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So I think that they were just in completely different life phases. Um, they weren't having to navigate a marriage and it's very different navigating a marriage than it is being in a relationship with someone. Right.

And so when they've had boyfriends and girlfriends that were appearing on the show, that's very different than, um,

trying to raise a child in a marriage living in another state yeah right you know so are they so and you said you don't talk to any of them anymore and is that because they like do they what are they blaming you in any kind of way for like pulling out and saying that was or what what's the reason for the estrangement i think that there's just a lot of resentment there was a scandal um that i was involved in that was a sex tape scandal

I know. I feel like I haven't seen y'all since New York City like years ago.

And then you watch it and you're like, that was not.

Okay. Yeah. Lay it on me, girl. Lay it on me. The tea. So, yes, when my parents were indicted in 2019, a couple of days after they were indicted, I was contacted at roughly, it was like 4 a.m., 3 a.m. from TMZ. Oh. And they were like, hey, we have a police report that you filed regarding threats for a sex tape.

Because I had been made aware.

So I went and per my attorney's advice. Yeah. He was like, go and file an informational report in your County. Like you don't need to do anything with it, but if anything does come about this, at least it's documented. So it's not like you're backtracking on something to say, Oh, well I was already knowledgeable about this. Let it be known on paper that you were knowledgeable about it.

There was no charges that I was trying to press, like nothing like that. It was just strictly like an informational report that I had been made aware of.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're on it. So. I get contacted. I'm assuming that what happened is that once my parents were indicted, they started looking into all kinds of stuff. And people started leaking stuff to media outlets. TMZ got this. And I shit my pants. Yeah. Because I was like, oh, shit. I only filed this as an informational report. Like, I never wanted anybody to know anything about this.

My dad went to New York Fashion Week and became friends with someone who was in the business of pitching shows for networks.

While I was separated from... My now ex-husband, I dated a guy who was on The Bachelorette.

Mm-hmm. I spent the night at one of my ex-best friend's house. She had a dog cam in one of the bedrooms. Weird.

Yes. And supposedly was trying to shop a dog cam video of me and him. He had just come off of JoJo Fletcher's season of The Bachelorette. He was the runner-up of that season. And I think because I was still on the show or had just recently been on the show and he had just come off that season that I don't know, somebody maybe thought they were going to make money off of this. Right.

And that's how it came about.

Well, she claims that she never had the video. That's what she told the FBI because we were all interviewed by FBI.

And she became privy to like a lot of family stuff that was going on in the intricacies of the family and the dynamic. And so he was asked if the family would shoot a sizzle reel and had no idea about anything about TV. So he's like, you got to tell me like more about this information. At that time, I was not even in communication with my parents. Oh, okay. How old were you about that time?

Okay. She claims that she never had the video and that if she did ever have the video, then it would have been deleted because it was on a puppy cam that she had for her dogs in her house. Um, and that it deleted every like 30 days or something.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, that story just doesn't math to me.

And so I, I went to the FBI because I was like, Hey, if there is something like this out there, I need to know about it. Like I have a child. I've also now reconciled at this point with my ex-husband. Oh. Oh, gosh.

Yeah, we got back together.

I don't need this shit.

Him seeing me having sex with someone on a fucking puppy cam video. Right. That's not healthy for anybody. Him, you, your child, your family. Nobody. No. So I go to the FBI and I'm like, hey, this needs to be fully investigated. And if there is a tape. There does not need to be a tape. I never consented to a tape. I never knew that I was being videoed on a tape.

Like, was I having consensual relations? Absolutely. But was I consenting to anybody filming anything? Absolutely not.

So they kind of called all parties in. Everybody had a very different story. Local law enforcement called multiple people. Multiple people then got attorneys involved, which is very much a red flag.

When you say you're going to come in for an interview with the police and then the next day you have an attorney call and say your client's not coming in for an interview, that tells me that there maybe was something. Yes.

So all of that was transpiring. Um, media catches hold of all of this. So my parents have this indictment that's come down and now there's sex tape and this is within days of each other. So, yes, it caused a huge divide in my family and I just wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. I'm like, I just want to do my podcast.

But you're being paid, so that is a cost that like... comes along with it, right? Yeah. If you were no longer being paid by Teen Mom, would you want it to be a little bit more silent and less people talking? Or would you be okay with people doing the same stuff that they do now with you guys actively on TV?

I'm done. Yeah, done with it. And that's how I felt.

I'm like, if you want to tune in to my podcast because you liked what you saw on Chrisley Knows Best or you followed me because of that show, and I will always give credit to Chrisley Knows Best regardless if I liked it or... I didn't and have mixed feelings about it. There was good that came out of it, right?

Oh, yeah, that's right. Remember we sat on that porn couch? Yes.

I would have never had the platform to be able to do the podcast or ever be able to meet Kiel if it wasn't for reality TV. So I will credit reality TV for that and my launching point.

But it was toxic to me and I would never want to be involved in that ever again. I love the way that you guys film. And I told Kale that from the time that I became friends with her and became aware of how y'all's production is. Yeah. Y'all's crew is so much smaller. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you guys document it as a docu series style and you also do the diary cams, which I love.

And I think it brings like the reality aspect to reality TV.

I was in a sophomore in college at that point. So I guess what, like 19, 20 years old. My parents, I grew up in a very religious household, very conservative household. I lived at home for one year, my first year of college. And my dad had made a deal with me that if I got my grades and was able to maintain my college life, aka not drinking and not sleeping around, then they would buy me a condo.

Well, and even, even though it's hard filming a docuseries because there's so much real to that and emotions to that, right? That we kind of, were able to manipulate and avoid in the way that we filmed, at least you're filming actual truth. Right. Right. And it's authentic and you can look back on it and say, you know what? It wasn't my greatest moment, but it was honest. Right.

And it's just what was really happening in my life. Yeah.

I just went to my local police department.

I had an attorney at that point because I'd already left Chrisley knows best. So I had to hire an attorney to get out of my contract because they did not want me to be able. I don't know if it was, I don't want to blame anyone on this podcast, but I don't know who was responsible between the production company network family, um,

They did not want me to be able to use my last name in anything else business related. That's my last name. Not on the show because they were claiming rights to that last name. And so I had to hire an attorney to fight for me, for me to be able to use my last name on coffee combos.

That is ridiculous.

It was from TMZ, right? No. No, because they got the report.

My dad actually told me.

Yeah. Your dad told you that what? That there's a sex tape out about you? How did he know? That my ex-best friend had reached out to my brother to let him know and tried to sell it to him. To your brother? To your brother? What the fuck? Yeah.

No, because we were not in contact at that point.

Like, that's mind-blowing. I think with TV, there was always somewhat of issues because it was a blended family. And I think that there's always going to be issues when a family is blended and the work's not done. Okay. When you do that, right? Right. That's actually been a really hard problem with me with dating and being so intentional about people who also have children.

Like, could I put myself in a situation to fully blend this in the way that it needs to be blended for this to be able to work? Because it's not the same as having biological children. Right. Like, you guys have biological children. Yeah. You only have biological children and you are married. Right. It would be different.

And so I think that my parents got divorced when I was six years old and both of my parents were already with someone else by the time their divorce was final.

And there was already a child on the way.

And so... While I don't think, I don't, I don't hold any resentment towards my parents who are doing that because I try to put myself in their shoes and I'm like, you know what? They were just truly trying to like move on and do the best that they could with what they had to do it with at that time. Would I make the same decisions? No, because I haven't.

But also, would I have made some of the same decisions that they made if I didn't have that trauma from that? Yeah, right. No, exactly.

To comprehend, like your brain's not developed enough to be able to comprehend what's actually going on. So it was almost like a family was split and then other families were created within that split simultaneously.

And then it's, I always say kids are collateral damage in a divorce, right? Because Parents are going to move on, right? Like you get divorced inevitably. You're eventually going to move on, might not be immediate, but you're going to move on and you've got the kids there that are stuck between those parents. Yeah. And that's hard.

Not at all.

No.

I did. I have a very different relationship with her because she did not raise me and she was not in my everyday life. That was my question.

So I kept up my end of the deal, go into my sophomore year, parents buy me a condo, and I started letting my boyfriend sleep over. And my dad found out about it. And he was like, that's not going to happen. So I made the decision for my own life. I'm an adult. Yeah. I'm doing this on my own. I went to school completely on scholarship. My parents paid nothing for that.

So she was in my life pretty consistently until I was in fifth grade. And we're originally from South Carolina. So my dad relocated to Atlanta. And at that point, I hardly ever saw her. If it was, it was like on random weekend. So he had primary custody. And it was just like we were like this whole new family, right? Wow. And that's very hard.

I think that my brother probably turned to substances when he got older because he could not deal with the trauma. Maybe that was his coping way. Yeah. Not to excuse it.

Oh, there was.

There was a custody battle. I don't know if you guys are familiar with custody situations, but there was something called a guardian ad litem that was hired. Yep. And ultimately they decided that my dad's home was the better home for us to be at.

So I don't know the complexities of that situation. Again, I was only six, seven. A tiny little child. Yeah. So I don't really know what was going on. I only remember like this woman coming to both of my parents' houses and watching my parents individually like interact with us. Hmm.

And then we would go off with her and she would, you know, like ask us questions or like take us to get ice cream or whatever. And it was, it felt like a long period of time, but I don't really know if I understood the length of time at that point. So it could have been like a month. I don't know. Um, but then ultimately it was decided that we were going to live. With my dad.

Yeah. So when I finally was able to fully address it with her, because I never wanted to address it with her until I was ready to do that. I was not willing to have conversations. That's your right. That's your right. frustrated and mad and hurt. Yeah. Because I think every child wants to be with their mother.

That's actually why I loved y'all's story on Teen Mom with Carly because I just feel like that's such a healthy decision as hard as that decision is to make. If you cannot raise children in a healthy environment and you're not ready to do so, it is best for them to go somewhere where they can be fully healthy and whole.

Yeah, she very much stepped away, I think, and accepted defeat.

And that was hard for me to come to the realization whenever I did. And I didn't until I was like 20 years old. Wow. I don't know if it was that I didn't want to know it or I just like wasn't ready to accept it or maybe not ready to address it.

And I think that a lot of people.

I could never imagine being in that situation now that I am a mother, but I also give her a little grace just knowing the dynamic of the situation with her and my dad. And I feel like she has done her time in the sense of dealing with the trauma that I have and my brother has. She's had to deal with that in very different ways. Oh, I bet.

Um, some legal issues, but not substance. Okay. So he's sober as far as I know, he's sober, but there have, there have just been things like that she has missed out on so much in life. And I had to accept through therapy that because she missed out on those things, she can never get them back.

No, there was no.

And relationship that I think that she longs for today is something that she forewent then.

And those are just things that once it's gone, the time's gone. You know, it's like I'm never going to be seven again. Right. Right. Never going to be 13 and starting my period.

No money for school. I was the first child in my family. Actually, I was a first generation college student. Oh, wow. Good for you.

I was and she was a very good stepmother and she stepped in in the ways that my dad allowed her. But I do hold a little resentment towards my dad for him not allowing her to be the mother to me that she could have been because he definitely had parameters.

So she was never allowed to discipline us. So if we ever did anything like... Let's say we were out shopping or something and she had all of the kids. If I did something, then it was a required call to him or for him to address it. Whenever I got home, she was never allowed to take that on, which made me automatically... And I don't think he did it. I think he felt like, okay...

these are my children and I want to be the one doing that. But I don't think that he realized during that time, because I think he was still growing. I mean, he was 21 whenever I was born. I think he was still growing just like I was a growing kid. Right.

And so I think if he did it differently now, he would be like, I would have allowed her to do that because then Lindsay would have felt like she was a part of the other kids. But when she's reprimanding her birth children and then not me.

And so it was very important to me. And I moved in with my boyfriend at the time, which then became my husband.

And then I have to go home and then deal with my dad. It just felt like a divide.

Like, damn, you know, it's like everybody says from the South, wait until dad gets home. Yeah. Yeah. like there is no worse fear yeah other than the fear of god right right then dad coming home my dad's name's todd i always say the fear of god and fear of todd like yeah okay so how many um uh between your you know your biological mom and your and your dad how many kids do they have together

So wait, so your dad kicked you out of the condo also? Or did you just decide to leave? I decided to leave. I knew that that was coming because I was not going to change my lifestyle or anything that I was doing. So inevitably that was going to happen. Yeah. So I just, I guess probably that was me trying to control my own destiny, I guess. Which I get, yeah. Right, of course.

Just me and my brother.

The other three are with my dad and my stepmom, but I don't really know. Like she's my adoptive mother. I know. Even though she is my stepmom, she, she did adopt me.

Or is that a hard thing for you? It is a hard thing. I felt the need to do it. I didn't do that and make that decision to get adopted until I was an adult.

I was 19 years old whenever I did that.

Because I don't believe that my biological mom would have ever agreed to that outside of me being an adult to make that decision on my own. Yeah. And it felt at the time that I did it, it felt like I was for the first time in control of something in my life and made me feel like if I do this on paper, my birth certificate will be destroyed. So all of my stuff will look exactly like the other kids.

And we will all be just one. Right. But it never, nothing ever really changed from that. Which is why I think I now hold the mentality of I don't have to ever be married again because what does the paper mean to me?

It didn't change anything.

Did you ever express that to him? Um, no.

And my dad would probably say today, Lindsay handled the divorce much differently. My brother's name is Kyle. Lindsay handled the divorce much differently than Kyle. You could tell all of the issues that Kyle was having because they were outwardly expressed, like whether it be an anger or trouble in school or substance or like whatever those things were.

I just kind of sucked it up and was like, this is my life and I'm just supposed to accept it. And as long as I don't have feelings about it and I don't say anything about it, then it just like won't be real. That is so sad.

It is an identity.

It is very heavy, and I don't think that I realized the heaviness until I became a mother myself.

And I was like... Well... He's gonna make me leave anyway... So... I'm gonna just go ahead and fucking go... Yeah... So I had two vehicles at the time... Put the keys on the... Counter... Left all the contents of the... Condo... Just took my personal items... Went to my boyfriend's house...

She did.

I don't think that it was necessarily aware of the complexities of the things that were going on. I think it was the defeat. And I think once it's an out of sight, out of mind situation, some people can do that, right? I would never be able to understand it because I'm a mom now, you know?

Yeah.

I don't know how I could ever. And it's hard to give grace in those situations when you can't understand it. Right. Yeah. It's like, it's really hard. I can't understand ever doing that. So I don't know how to give forgiveness in a situation that I can't understand.

It is. And it's hard to have empathy in those situations because you know that it's just something that you never could imagine yourself doing. And so that's definitely something that I struggled with as a child knowing that I couldn't imagine. And I just know as a mother in a co-parenting situation where I'm sharing 50, 50 custody, right?

stayed there for the rest of college um got married my last semester of school and got pregnant within six months of being married wow yeah how long were you with your boyfriend before like graduating how long were you with him in total before you guys well i had this great idea whenever i was going to school that i was just going to be a sorority girl like i was just going to live up this like college experience and i was just going to go to school and party when i wasn't going to school yeah

I know that my child sometimes longs for me and it literally breaks my heart, but there's nothing that I can do about it. And I know that I'm just going to give him as much love as I possibly can when I get him next. Yeah. I could not imagine like my mom moving across the country and only seeing us on like holidays. Yeah. Oh, I would literally go insane.

Like I don't go insane.

I think that I probably subconsciously did, but I don't think that I consciously did. I think that I was just doing every day. I think it's, um, I think you were trying to survive. Yeah. I think kid. Yeah. I think that's probably what it was. And I don't want to say that my, my dad did anything intentionally. I think he also was trying to survive in that situation.

And I think he had good intentions. I think he's like, okay, this is a good woman and she's pregnant. And now we have kids and we're going to be like this one happy family. And it's like these rose colored glasses. And because I saw him doing that, I never wanted to bring issue to anything. It's just like, okay, this is what we're doing. And

Maybe was it before COVID? Yes.

I saw something about that yesterday and it was talking about how you only know your parents as parents, right? Your whole life, they have been your parents, but they had a life before you and their whole life. They were not parents, right? Right.

Yeah. And so I just feel like through therapy, I've been able to under, not that I can understand. I think understands the wrong word. I can give grace to that situation because my parents were just kids raising kids.

Yeah. And not that it excuses certain things and not that it did not give me childhood traumas, but it's okay.

Because it doesn't affect me every day like it once did.

I didn't start going to therapy until after the whole sex tape scandal.

Um, I laid in bed for Kristen. I was like not well for, was it like six months? Yeah. Yeah. It was like six to eight months that I would literally wake up, take my child to school, get him off, act like happy mom.

Come back home. If I had to podcast, I would podcast. I would take a bath and I would go to bed. Wow.

Yes. You were depressed. I was. Yeah. And I didn't even know what depression was.

Yeah. That's how I felt when I tell you that all of this stuff went down in July, August. And I woke up sometime. I felt like I woke up from July, August and October. Okay. And my now ex-husband was like, you have to get help.

Um, I started school in August and I met him in September and then we like never broke up. So I had a boyfriend all through college and then ended up marrying him. Him and my dad did not get along at all. Really? Okay. Definitely cut from different cloths for sure.

I don't think he wanted to hurt my feelings. It's exactly what it is. Yeah.

Okay. I was self-aware that it was going on. I don't think I was self-aware of how much I was staying in my room and how much I was sleeping, but I was self-aware of what I was feeling. Which was? Defeat. Alone. Like I would feel if I was around people, I would still feel alone. Like I could be in a crowded room and feel like I was by myself.

Yeah, I've always had anxiety. Yeah.

on the podcast to know I was depressed and I had not even identified that it was depression. Like I didn't know what it was. And so Kristen, it hasn't been too long since I even identified that it was actually depression.

Like a very new revelation and I can feel it. Um, and myself sometimes like creep back in and I'm like, okay, whoa, like I need to, I need to go to a therapy session or I need to like figure out what it get to the bottom of what's exactly going on because I never want to be back in that place that I once was.

I think that they just came from very different... Like views and stuff? I would not necessarily say views. I think it was more so like my boyfriend was on the baseball team. My dad was not into athletics. He was a businessman. He thought that... my boyfriend in college should have been on a job.

Mm-hmm. But I so much want to advocate for people who see somebody that is going through that to not be afraid to like help them because I can never thank my ex-husband enough for getting me help and finding my therapist because I was not able to do that for myself.

Because y'all were at, were y'all at something for Teen Mom? We were probably there for a year. Yeah, we were there for a year. Yeah, something. Yeah. But it was years, years ago. That was so long ago.

And I didn't realize until I was well out of like the patterns of the things that I was doing.

like I would think crazy shit. Like I'm going to be driving down the road. Like this is no joke. And I would look at the shoulder of the road and see how close I could get to like that white line. If I was on a two, like cars going that way. Yeah.

The first time I ever took my son to the movie theater... I walked to see from the top of the theater to the bottom where the exit doors were and timed myself on my phone to see how fast I could get out of there if someone shot the place up. I have interesting thoughts like that all the time. Crazy anxiety shit that is just...

I mean, I guess it is sad that our world has come to some of these things. Right. And it's probably like not really that realistic or the chances of something like that happening. It's it's very intrusive.

But why was I thinking these things? What the hell was going on?

And his parents were like, as long as you keep your grades and you're eligible to play baseball, that's the only job that you have to have. And so I think that my dad just wanted me to be with somebody who was a working man. Like him?

be like uh hurt their feelings yeah or be like what's something's wrong with you it's like it doesn't have to be like that Tyler I would literally get my child up and put on like this whole show like fix a breakfast do all this stuff like mom of the year drive him to school come back if I had to record I would record if I did not I would take a bath put on a new pair of pajamas and get in my bed and sleep until it was time to get him out of school wow

Yeah. And I just, I'm like, maybe was that God, because this was after we had gotten back together. I was like, was that God saving my life? Because what if I went through this and I was alone? Right.

And who was it that was talking about therapy? Someone was in this room last night, and they were talking about therapy and in marriages that you should start therapy before it gets bad. It's so true. It was Macy. She was talking about do it before it gets bad because once it gets bad, it's too late. Yeah. Right? And it's so hard to go back. Yeah. It's so, so hard.

And I wish that I would have done that in my marriage before it got too late. But unfortunately, I wasn't even in personal therapy for myself. And I'm a big advocate for... being in personal therapy for yourself because when you are the best you, you can be the best you for someone else.

But some people, like this old school mentality of people thinking that depression is not a real thing. It's like I... Dude. It's disgusting. Yeah. Like, oh, just get over it. You're fine. No. Sorry. Well, if it was that easy and I could just get over it, then do you think I wouldn't be fucking over it? Right. I would definitely do that. Yeah.

Do you think I would be in this cave? Yeah, exactly.

No one would accept it. And saying you're weak.

But look at how much growth has come in us just talking about it because I think about my grandparents' generation. no one talked about therapy. Like that was not a thing. It was like, you just be better.

Yeah.

Yeah, so he owned an asset management company that was a liaison between when foreclosures happen, like the bank and then the new buyer. And so that's what his company did. They acted as the liaison to liquidate those assets. So he was very, very successful in that. And then...

So look at us just being out here.

I've learned a lot of things about you. Do y'all have Instagram? Like, Oh yeah. I mean, obviously like your personal Instagrams.

Yeah. Perfect. Well, thanks for having me. Thanks. I appreciate it.

um he was approached for the sizzle reel yeah and he was like i mean i guess we're gonna do it and of course you guys know tv y'all are veterans so i don't need to tell you anything they sell you this dream right oh yeah it's like oh you're only investing like seven days of your time something might come about something might not but it's just seven days which that part is true like they don't even know if you know the higher-ups are gonna like the sizzle reel and so then it's like

It is. And you don't know what to expect, right? No, you don't. And so you walk into this situation and you're like, what the fuck even is this?

There's mics and all these cameras around and no one knows what the hell's going on and we don't know what's actually going to happen. So my dad had already been in this mindset of this show was going to get picked up. I don't think that he knew...

how it was going to happen I don't think he could see that far into it because he didn't know TV in that way but I think that he knew that there was enough dynamic there that someone would be interested yeah so he immediately already went into producer mode and he was like you need to take off your wedding ring because you're not going to know you're married To who?

Um, wow. There's just been so much change since then. Um, I left reality TV. Okay. Um.

To you?

Yeah. So he immediately- For what reason though?

Because he wanted it for season one. So if it got picked up, it would be storyline for season one. So he was like, take off the wedding ring. No one's going to know that you're married. You need to wear loose clothing, like loose dresses. Nobody's going to know that you're pregnant. So for this entire seven days of filming the sizzle reel, no one knew that I was married.

No one knew that I was pregnant.

Well, I walked from the sizzle reel.

Well, yeah, it was a little more than that, but yeah.

Like, yeah, it was a big deal because I was now a part of four or five days of the sizzle reel. And then I walk on like day six or seven. And then I'm being threatened by this production company that they're going to sue me for $40,000. Mind you, I am just coming out of college. I am newly married, pregnant.

And they're like, now that you've been a part of these five days or whatever, this is what we're pitching. So what we're pitching has to be consistent with what's going to be on TV potentially. Whoa. What? So I did not want to do the deal at all. I don't blame you. I was the last child to sign the contract.

I just made the choice personally for myself to step away from that. It wasn't serving my marriage well, which ultimately ended anyway. Okay. Oh, okay. My child was getting ready to start school, and I didn't want him filmed. There was no pay for my child on that show. Oh, yeah, no. And so that just accompanied with my parents having some legal issues that were going on.

Five. Okay. Wow.

Yeah. So it was, it was all of us like as a collective. And I was told by the production company that it was basically all of us signed the contract or like it's a no deal situation. Oh, wow. So all of you were none of it.

But I wasn't even a big part of the show and that's what's so crazy about it. I think that they liked the dynamic of the fact that there was always... From the time that they started filming us, there was conflict with me and my dad and we did not see eye to eye on a lot of things. So I think that they liked that dynamic.

I have a brother that's 15 months younger than me that also deals with substance issues and pretty much always has for as long as I can remember. And so they liked that dynamic too because obviously they like filming that kind of stuff. It adds a different view, right, of things. And then three children that were still in the home. Yeah.

Yeah. High school, two high schoolers and then an elementary school child at the time. So this is like one like older kid. Yeah. Wow. Holy shit. Yeah.

So I ultimately ended up signing the contract and I said, I do not want this ever to change. Like there was already issues. And I said, I don't want it to ever like make any issues worse because this is now being televised. Right. Yes. So they send the sizzle reel out to who the hell knows. And I believe it was like eight networks or nine networks and we got eight offers. Wow.

And so, um, I think Oprah's network was who came back and was the highest bidder, but there was more marketing budget with USA from what I was told. Okay. And so that's where we landed with reruns on Bravo and Eve.

So actually it was found out before the sizzle was even done. Because again, when you aren't familiar with being on TV, when you're wearing mics around, right?

You forget that you're wearing mics. Right. And you just speak like how you normally would. So I'm sitting in a makeup chair, getting hair and makeup. And my dad and I are having a conversation and production is listening to what's on the mic. Right. And they find out I'm pregnant and I'm married. Wow. Yeah. So it like blew up the whole spot. I did not love being on reality TV.

And that's why Kale and I decided to start the pot. When I left reality TV, I kind of sat out six months and I was like, I need to truly decide like what it is that I wanted to do. I very much had a very traditional role in my marriage where I could stay at home.

And I took care of my son and he went to work and came home like a very traditional life. Right. And I loved that. I did not love the idea of, I knew that it would catch up with my child at some point with him starting kindergarten. I wanted him to be out of the TV world before kindergarten ever started just because kids are, they talk, you know? Yeah.

they say things and I watched it happen my son started kindergarten when my parents had just been indicted oh great and so little girls on the playground saying my mom knows you know who your grandparents are and we see them on the news and like all of these things so I wanted to try to remove that but I still wanted to stay somewhat in the space because I do like entertainment yeah

But I was not okay with the idea of having a production team tell me what the actual narrative of something was that wasn't. And that's why I love podcasts.

They went to trial, were convicted, and are both in federal prison now.

Well, and it's hard because after you have filmed something and you guys know this all too well, you film something and it's cut and sliced to benefit whatever might not even be your producer, but it is an exec that's at the network. That's like, Hey, this is what we're going to use. And it's like a snippet of a conversation and not the full picture.

And that's why I like the podcast world because you have actual control to share everything that you want to share and it's not twisted and it's not turned and it's straight from your voice.

Yeah, I was on it, yeah, for five seasons.

Very minimally. He got a job straight out of college and worked nine to five. And so you guys know with a production schedule. And then my parents lived in Georgia when the show started and then ended up moving to Tennessee, to Nashville. And so then that required travel for the show. So it became very hard because I'm not there every single day. So then it became very...

Yes.

But she did adopt me.

Structured and storyline of this is what you're participating in instead of it being actual real life. So it never felt.

Real. Yeah. Right. Because it's like, okay, well, you're coming here for these dinner scenes and for this play date and for this sleepover. And it just didn't feel, it wasn't authentic.

From all of my siblings, I am. I just think that that, and it's nothing negative against them. I think that we can live in the same space in entertainment. My sister also has a podcast. Oh, okay. We can live in the same space doing the same things and not necessarily agree or align. And it's no hate. It's no ill will. It's just we don't serve each other in each other's lives.