Liz Bates

Yes, exactly. The problem is, it's such a small party now that they'd sort of miscalculated in terms of numbers. And so... Yeah, that went badly for them.

I think what you've seen with this government so far is there was a long period of time, and we did the podcast during that period, where we thought maybe they've got a plan and they're just keeping it a secret. And then during the election campaign, we were like, well, they seem like they're not really ready, but they'll obviously be ready for the election. Ready for government.

And then they got into government and we were like, oh, they're just not ready and they actually don't have a plan. So I think when it comes to lots of things, they're figuring it out.

And I think when it comes to how to approach America, they're doing that as well.

I think we should suggest policies to them and they would probably go for it at this point.

I know. With the public.

No, no, no.

Literally anyone.

Anyone. It's like they're opening the windows in Whitehall and going, has anyone got any policy ideas out here?

Yes. Yes, I know it sounds like an obvious question, but yes. Yes is the answer. Shame you weren't at any of their meetings before the election. A lot of UK government and how it rolls out is about the character of the person at the centre of it and that is Keir Starmer.

And I think the sense that I have got from him and what has come across is he basically, he managed a big organisation in the CPS and he was like, I'm really great at managing things. I think I should manage the country. And so that's it. He thinks, surely let's just manage this better. And so their plan is like, make the NHS better, make the education system better.

He's not really a political strategist and he hasn't brought in any political strategists. And they've been out of office in opposition for 14 years. And so they've all got into Whitehall and been like, Jesus Christ, this doesn't work very well. And how do we sort it all out?

I think, look, one of the things is when you look at the 14 years of the Conservative government, it was kind of overshadowed by Brexit and Boris Johnson. And that was genuinely chaotic for the way that just the country runs. And so having a consistent government that is just trying to get departments to run things better is actually not a bad idea because we weren't doing it.

So that is a good idea. Separately from that. I think there's disappointment within the Labour ranks and probably amongst Labour voters now as well, that there's no broader vision for shifting the way that the economy works in a way that feels fairer. So taking on things like water privatisation, right? You would think a Labour government will come in and say, OK, we'll sort that out.

But their approach to that is, oh, we'll make the regulator better.

Yeah, exactly that. And because, and it's basically because he's not a great thinker. When you look back on some of the transformative governments, whether you liked them or not in this country, so, you know, Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, they had a central kind of political and economic thesis.

At least 1945. Exactly. Exactly. Right. So they they spend time, you know, in some ways it feels quite separate from politics day to day, but it's intellectual. It's thinking about the future, a vision of a country and a world that is different from the one that you're in now that has never been done before. So, you know, look at Thatcher and the way that she privatised everything.

And then you look at Blair and the kind of third way we're living with the consequences of both of those things. kind of political theories now, but they pushed those through and made them into policies day to day. Keir Starmer's not that guy. Like he is not that guy.

He did not sit around for 10 years talking to his friends and talking to his political associates about political vision and political theory. He literally just managed a big organization and now he's like, I'm going to manage another one that's even bigger.

Absolutely, yeah. And look, I mean, it sounds like I'm kind of shitbagging here. You know, the war I'm talking about is really kind of the perfect idea... of a leader, which is somebody who has a great vision and then can also make that happen day to day. That's a really difficult thing to do. He's a middle manager and maybe we do need that.