Louise McSharry

That's your job.

Exactly.

I have managed to create a career around this obsession, which is an innate obsession that I have.

The only thing that's gotten me recently is, are you aware of mogging, gesture maxing, frame mogging, any of these terms?

of that's ringing a bell with me good uh it comes from incel culture it is so weird um and it's an entire like pocket of culture that I've recently discovered that I'm kind of fascinated by what's mugging so mug so frame frame mugging is this is so insane it's all rooted around toxic masculinity so like if you if you and I run a photo together and you had bigger muscles than me and you were kind of flexing those muscles in the photo with me you would be frame mugging

Yeah.

Um, gesture maxing is kind of like making jokes.

Um, it's, yeah, it's, I, I'm not completely okay with the lingo yet, but it's wild.

The first one sounds like flexing.

Yeah, basically, but it's almost, it's, it's more built around like, um, humiliation and

oh right okay so it's like oh he framed you you were recently someone said my friend texted me was like did you hear that clavicular was frame mugged by the asu frat leader and i was like what are you talking about no he was messing but like that is literally a thing that the this like

incel culture on the internet that people were talking about how Clavicular who's this like big character in that culture was frame mugged by this other guy which means he's like not as masculine as him and like you know he made him look bad I'm obsessed yeah it's so weird I'll send you a Guardian article when we're finished but anyways and then I could go to my sisters and be like have you heard of and they'll be like ha

no we don't say yeah obviously we don't want them to know it's okay yeah it's so grim anyway sorry that was a complete sidebar so I do apologize and I love it but but I think what you were saying is that growing up in a big family kind of made you feel that you really wanted to be independent financially and in other ways

Yeah.

But how sure are you about that because every author I know is convinced that everything they write is awful.

Oh, so she gave you like constructive feedback.

She did.

Wow, how amazing.

And am I right in thinking that you started writing this book during COVID?

Yeah.