Luca Ferrari

Because I think some level of failure rate would indicate a more optimal strategy.

I guess you fail, you learn, you get better.

Yeah, in short, the more sophisticated version is completely true what you just said for the first five years.

Then we started using debt, pretty basic debt from commercial banks, not very high leverage ratios, 3.5 times EBITDA on a good day, generally lower, trailing EBITDA in the last 12 months.

That helped accelerate.

Before, we couldn't use that because you need to have an established track record before they take you through the code.

Since then, it's been essentially debt and reinvested earnings and debt.

We have raised a bunch of equity, but mostly to fuel secondary transactions.

Because if you're in business for a long time, you start to get into a good scale.

People say, okay, I've invested in this company.

And I'm talking really just team members because from the beginning, we enabled people.

We pay just cash.

no variable pay of any kind.

And people can choose though to receive some of their cash pay in equity at a discount.

It's very unusual, by the way.

And so in time, people have accumulated positions and that equity is worth nothing if there's never any liquidity.

So we started organizing secondary transaction every 18 months, one year, two years.

We've had maybe five, four probably since 2019.

And so mostly equity has been raised to finance those transactions, but occasionally we

The first capital increase of any significance was in 2022, I think.