Lukas Nelson

Like always says, you know, don't listen to what I'm saying.

Right.

Because the Tao that can be spoken is not the real Tao.

Right.

And yet here I am just loving the sound of my own voice and talking about it.

You know what I mean?

That's a problem.

You know, so it's like, you know, that's the great paradox of the spiritual self and understanding what that means.

One of the great – of course, actually, when I started listening to you, it was in like 2007, 2006.

And it was – I was listening to a lot of Terrence McKenna at the time.

And Terrence McKenna –

Talk about someone who had a grasp on the English language.

What an incredible – like I'd listen to his lectures that were available online.

Ram Dass probably.

Yes.

there's a Ram Dass conversation I think with Alan Watts oh wow somewhere out there which is really interesting well my friend Duncan became friends with Ram Dass yeah I actually met him in Hawaii one time really yeah I got to meet him yeah

He lived not too far from where I live in Maui.

So I went on a whale watch with him one time.

With McKenna?

No, with Ram Dass.