Luke Caverns
speaker
1,858 appearances
5 recordings
5 series
first heard Dec 2024
last heard 27 May
Luke Caverns’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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recordings per month · last 12 monthsRecordings per month over the last 12 months — 2 in all, peaking in May 2026 with 1.
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Archaeological and literary evidence such as Manetho's history of Egypt from the 3rd century BC and the Narmer palette from 3100 BC tell us that dynastic Egypt began when a king from the south, Narmer, or Menes—we don't know if those are the same people or not— This is where the smiting pose, where the Pharaoh is grabbing his opposing ruler by the hair and crushing his head in with the mace.
"...smiting their king and declaring himself the first king of the two lands." This conquering of northern Egypt's kingdom likely disrupted and halted many different aspects of their society.
And I assume the industry involved in creating these vases, along with the technology used to make them, was lost, hidden, destroyed, or buried during the chaos, answering the questions of why we do not find them being crafted in the archaeological record beyond 3100 BC or Dynasty Zero. Because they're all in the north. Almost all of these vases are up in the north.
We don't really find them down south at Aswan. We're not really finding them down south at Luxor. They're all up in the north in the Memphite region in all of the burials around there. And then Jojer, who was born in Memphis in the north, takes all of his ancestors' vases and buries himself with them. And I just wonder if he is hearkening back.
Clearly he is, because he's saying, these are the heirlooms of my ancestors. So he had to know who his direct ancestors were and that they were pre-dynastic Egyptians living in the north who made these vases and are responsible for them. But they're not made anymore. And it made me wonder, and I had that realization. I was like, oh, wow. This is, yeah, that's right.
If you look at the archeological record, there's a different type of vase making that's being made in the South. Have you ever seen the pottery that is a similar shape to these vases, but they're red and black? It's called like Badarian culture. Um, so those, um, those vases are being made in the South and you have Nakata culture as well.
That's making different kinds of, of, of vessels, but these hard stone vases are from the North. And I think that looking through Jozier, you can see, oh, okay, this is something that was wiped out when that first, when the first Pharaoh, the guy who united both lands came in, um,
I think that that unification, the chaos, the war breaking out, the leveling of northern Egyptian government to be subservient to the now pharaoh of the two lands, I just wonder if that's one of the industries that completely ended. Was it too expensive in the chaos of it? Was the place where these things are made, was it destroyed?
Something is there, and I think a smoking gun is the fact that Jozer and his immediate ancestors are Memphites from northern Egypt, because not every pharaoh is in the straight lineage. A pharaoh will die, or he'll be usurped or assassinated, or he'll be overthrown or whatever.
Um, so it's kind of messy, but Jozer and his ancestors are Memphites from Northern Egypt and we interpret those as being his ancestors. So I just wonder if, if that's my explanation or my possible theory as to why they're not made anymore.
Yeah, and you know, I don't really have a strong understanding of the technicalities behind making it. And that's how I preface my whole thing is it's not about, my explanation is not about how they were made. That's not what I do. You know, I study culture, I study the people, and I try to put the pieces together of how people are interacting with these vases.
And can we find a history to go along with the vases, right? Can we give them some kind of context? And so that's what I look for. And so in that, I think... I think, well, I mean, I'm just proposing an idea as to why they were stopped being made, what happened to the technology that it falls out during the chaos of this unification of upper and lower Egypt. And then as far as the use of them,
My thought is that wealthy people who are getting a hold of and have the access to use the lotus flower in imported wine, foreign wine. I mean, they have their own wines too, but inexpensive wines and brews and beers and they're aging lotus and they want it to stay preserved in something high quality, right?
Something that the liquid isn't going to absorb into and it's not gonna flake off into the liquid. It doesn't explain why the vases are perfect. And I should say, just to be honest, a good counter to my own argument is these could be later uses of vases that have been laying around, right? So it's hard to say. That's a good counter to my whole argument too.
But yeah, that's my premise and my approach, kind of what I'm working on right now with these vases. Nice, nice.
Exactly. Well, and I wonder with a lot of the certificates, is it, I mean, I think either way is fine. But sometimes on the certificates, they're either saying this was found in a tomb from 2600 BC, or they're estimating when the artifact was made, right? So that's kind of the hard part is, okay, you can't judge how old the vase is.
Because the vases are made in the north, but when they're found in tombs in the south, that tomb in the south is usually hundreds of years later, right? So, you can't use it to say, okay, this was made in 2600 BC in the south, when really it was made 500 years earlier in the north. So, yeah. Yeah. And it can go back way further than that. I mean, I'm saying 3100 BC.
That's when they stopped being made. These things are made hundreds of years before that. So...
yeah that's cool yeah and potentially thousands of years before that i guess i mean possibly there there are those uh there are those photos i should say in in aswan which is in the south um of supposedly a 10 000 year old grave that has what looks like we you and i've talked about this it has what looks like a hard stone vase in there but i don't know that that exact specimen if we know where that was it just looks like it in the photo and that's
What is it? Is it an 8,000 BC grave? It's something crazy.
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