Lulu Garcia Navarro

On a personal note, your own story is very much defined by this fight against autocracy. Your stepfather was a Holocaust survivor who was saved from the death camps by American soldiers. It's an incredible story. You've said that you learned lessons from him about what our country is and what it represents and what it means when the United States is engaged in leading the

On a personal note, your own story is very much defined by this fight against autocracy. Your stepfather was a Holocaust survivor who was saved from the death camps by American soldiers. It's an incredible story. You've said that you learned lessons from him about what our country is and what it represents and what it means when the United States is engaged in leading the

And I'm wondering, as you look at the end of your tenure, as you've been leading over the last four years, and you're handing off, as we've discussed, many of these conflicts that are still unresolved, and you have come under a lot of criticism, do his lessons strike you differently now than they did before that you've been through the fire, so you will, of really being the person at the forefront of making these very, very difficult choices?

And I'm wondering, as you look at the end of your tenure, as you've been leading over the last four years, and you're handing off, as we've discussed, many of these conflicts that are still unresolved, and you have come under a lot of criticism, do his lessons strike you differently now than they did before that you've been through the fire, so you will, of really being the person at the forefront of making these very, very difficult choices?

Secretary, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.

Secretary, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.

That's outgoing Secretary of State Antony Blinken. This conversation was produced by Elisa Gutierrez. It was edited by Annabel Bacon, mixing by Sophia Landman. Original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano. Photography by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Wyatt Orem, Seth Kelly, and Priya Matthew. Our executive producer is Alison Benedict.

That's outgoing Secretary of State Antony Blinken. This conversation was produced by Elisa Gutierrez. It was edited by Annabel Bacon, mixing by Sophia Landman. Original music by Dan Powell and Marion Lozano. Photography by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Wyatt Orem, Seth Kelly, and Priya Matthew. Our executive producer is Alison Benedict.

Special thanks to Jessica Lustig, Edward Wong, Chris Buckley, Joel Hellman, Afim Shapiro, Rory Walsh, Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddy Maciello, Nick Pittman, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schumann, and Sam Doldick. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to The Interview wherever you get your podcasts.

Special thanks to Jessica Lustig, Edward Wong, Chris Buckley, Joel Hellman, Afim Shapiro, Rory Walsh, Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddy Maciello, Nick Pittman, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schumann, and Sam Doldick. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to The Interview wherever you get your podcasts.

To read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com slash The Interview. And you can email us anytime at theinterviewatnytimes.com. Next week, David talks with Ben Stiller about the upcoming season of Severance.

To read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com slash The Interview. And you can email us anytime at theinterviewatnytimes.com. Next week, David talks with Ben Stiller about the upcoming season of Severance.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro, and this is The Interview from The New York Times.

From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. The minute I left university, I put on a backpack and went to see the world. I climbed the Andes in Ecuador. I taught English in Cambodia. I spent months visiting monasteries in Tibet. It was the most transformative period of my life. Lately, though, I feel like my travel mojo is gone.

From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. The minute I left university, I put on a backpack and went to see the world. I climbed the Andes in Ecuador. I taught English in Cambodia. I spent months visiting monasteries in Tibet. It was the most transformative period of my life. Lately, though, I feel like my travel mojo is gone.

Instead of traveling to discover, I now travel to retreat. I'm often overwhelmed by the demands of daily life, so when it's time for vacation, I choose a destination that doesn't ask too much of me, and I don't give much back. Rick Steves has been helping millions of people, including people like me, expand their travel horizons since he was in his 20s.

Instead of traveling to discover, I now travel to retreat. I'm often overwhelmed by the demands of daily life, so when it's time for vacation, I choose a destination that doesn't ask too much of me, and I don't give much back. Rick Steves has been helping millions of people, including people like me, expand their travel horizons since he was in his 20s.

The prolific guidebook writer and beloved PBS personality believes that travel can make not only the world a better place, but you a better person. He's 69 now, but his upcoming book is about how it all began, with a trip he took after university like me. It's called On the Hippie Trail, and it's the journal entries he wrote as he traveled the 3,000 miles from Istanbul to Kathmandu in 1978.

The prolific guidebook writer and beloved PBS personality believes that travel can make not only the world a better place, but you a better person. He's 69 now, but his upcoming book is about how it all began, with a trip he took after university like me. It's called On the Hippie Trail, and it's the journal entries he wrote as he traveled the 3,000 miles from Istanbul to Kathmandu in 1978.