Lulu Garcia Navarro

He said that the first two years there were pretty dreadful in part because, I'm quoting, the Tina Brown allies who had been left behind were deeply hostile and subversive.

And when he arrived, there was almost nothing lying around that I thought was worth publishing.

Were you surprised to read that?

I mean, he wrote that he'd heard a rumor that the style director of the magazine would go to your apartment to help style your clothes for the day.

You bet.

She did.

Is it true?

She'd come over every morning?

The once in future, perhaps.

I am wondering what your take is on this current media moment where we're seeing...

a lot of very fraught relationships between media organizations and people with money.

The LA Times, The Washington Post, David Ellison, the son of Larry, one of the richest men in the world who is now in charge of Paramount and CBS.

And obviously, outlets, especially now, need to have a relationship with people with money, and they always have had that relationship.

I just wonder, why do you think people like this get involved in journalism?

I don't think we can talk about this era for journalism without talking about the president, Donald Trump.

You and he, again, were coming up in that same era.

You really got it in for the 80s, didn't you?

But I just wonder, what did he learn back then, you think, that has made him such a master manipulator of the media and the attention economy today?

I mean, how do you shock people in an era where there is no shame?

So who is the most odious person in media right now?