Lulu Garcia Navarro

After the break, Jimmy and I speak again about how he thinks part of Wikipedia success is the fact that profit isn't even on the table.

Hi.

Hello.

So I was thinking about our first conversation, and I was thinking about the moment that Wikipedia was created in, a time before social media, before sort of the dramatic polarization that we've seen, before the political weaponization of the internet that we've seen.

I'm still, after talking to you, sort of not sure that the lessons of how Wikipedia was created apply to today.

And so I wanted to ask you, do you think Wikipedia could be created now and exist in the same way that it does?

Do you think the Internet didn't go the way of Wikipedia?

You know, collegial, working for the greater good, fun, nerdy, all the words that you use to describe that moment of creation.

It's in our pocket all the time.

I mean, I think I was thinking about Wikipedia in particular and maybe why it went a different way in that you chose at a certain point to make it a not for profit.

You chose not to sort of capitalize on the success of Wikipedia.

And it made me wonder about that.

OpenAI started as an open source for the greater good project, kind of like Wikipedia, and they've now shifted into being a multi-billion dollar business.

I'd love to know your thoughts on that shift for OpenAI, but more broadly, do you think that the money part of it also changed the equation?

Since we last spoke, the co-founder of Wikipedia, Larry Sanger, has given an interview to Tucker Carlson that's getting a lot of attention here in the United States on the right.

And he has had a lot to say about Wikipedia and not a lot of it's good.

In the past, he's called it one of the most effective organs of establishment propaganda in history.

And we should say that he believes Wikipedia has a liberal bias.

And in this interview and on his X feed, he's advocating for what he's calling reforms to the site, which include reveal who Wikipedia's leaders are and abolish source blacklists.

And I just wonder what you make of it.