Maggie Haberman

Just to step back for a second, Michael, on what Donald Trump understands about messaging apps and how these things work. He only started using text messages about two and a half years ago. He called sending texts, send a wire to someone for a very long time. I don't think he has any understanding of what Signal was until now. Right. So he's...

Just to step back for a second, Michael, on what Donald Trump understands about messaging apps and how these things work. He only started using text messages about two and a half years ago. He called sending texts, send a wire to someone for a very long time. I don't think he has any understanding of what Signal was until now. Right. So he's...

First two questions were whether the mission was compromised, and the answer was no, clearly. But his other question was, why was Jeffrey Goldberg in there? And that gets to a bigger issue for Donald Trump, which really is not about the fact that there was sensitive attack planning discussions happening on a commercial messaging app.

First two questions were whether the mission was compromised, and the answer was no, clearly. But his other question was, why was Jeffrey Goldberg in there? And that gets to a bigger issue for Donald Trump, which really is not about the fact that there was sensitive attack planning discussions happening on a commercial messaging app.

It was, why was someone in contact with this particular journalist who Donald Trump really doesn't like?

It was, why was someone in contact with this particular journalist who Donald Trump really doesn't like?

He blames Mike Waltz, the national security advisor, because he's the one who set up the group chat. And his main question for aides has been, after condemning this as stupid, has been, does Mike Waltz talk to Jeffrey Goldberg? Trump is consumed with paranoia about leaks. And the idea that Jeff Goldberg's number would be in Mike Waltz's phone has been a preoccupying fact.

He blames Mike Waltz, the national security advisor, because he's the one who set up the group chat. And his main question for aides has been, after condemning this as stupid, has been, does Mike Waltz talk to Jeffrey Goldberg? Trump is consumed with paranoia about leaks. And the idea that Jeff Goldberg's number would be in Mike Waltz's phone has been a preoccupying fact.

Just to add to that, Michael, Trump has a long relationship with Pete Hegseth. Trump wanted to pick Pete Hegseth for his cabinet in a different role in the first term. It didn't work out for a variety of reasons. He doesn't really have a deep relationship with Mike Waltz. And that's important to bear in mind here.

Just to add to that, Michael, Trump has a long relationship with Pete Hegseth. Trump wanted to pick Pete Hegseth for his cabinet in a different role in the first term. It didn't work out for a variety of reasons. He doesn't really have a deep relationship with Mike Waltz. And that's important to bear in mind here.

I think there was some story that was being told. It's not clear to me if it was by Waltz or by someone around Waltz, that he had been trying to add an aide, one of his own aides, and for whatever reason, Jeffrey Goldberg's number was under his aide's contact. Now, I've had people's numbers under the wrong name. in my phone before, but not somebody I work with closely.

I think there was some story that was being told. It's not clear to me if it was by Waltz or by someone around Waltz, that he had been trying to add an aide, one of his own aides, and for whatever reason, Jeffrey Goldberg's number was under his aide's contact. Now, I've had people's numbers under the wrong name. in my phone before, but not somebody I work with closely.

And so that seemed to be what he was talking about with the sucked in. To say that that story has not been given a lot of credence within the White House would be an understatement.

And so that seemed to be what he was talking about with the sucked in. To say that that story has not been given a lot of credence within the White House would be an understatement.

Yes and yes. As you correctly observed, there is an ecosystem that exists now that goes into effect, that gives certain people antibodies and attacks a different organism. And so in this case— Hegseth has the antibodies. Hegseth and J.D. Vance and others on that chat. Mike Waltz does not. And so Trump— has been very reluctant to fire people this term.

Yes and yes. As you correctly observed, there is an ecosystem that exists now that goes into effect, that gives certain people antibodies and attacks a different organism. And so in this case— Hegseth has the antibodies. Hegseth and J.D. Vance and others on that chat. Mike Waltz does not. And so Trump— has been very reluctant to fire people this term.

I say this term as if we're two years in, we're 60 days in or so. Right. But he really regretted firing Mike Flynn, his first national security advisor, after he did in his first term. Flynn only lasted, you know, a handful of weeks. He has tried to avoid doing that so far. This is described to me by a number of people in and outside of, close to the White House, as an unsustainable situation.

I say this term as if we're two years in, we're 60 days in or so. Right. But he really regretted firing Mike Flynn, his first national security advisor, after he did in his first term. Flynn only lasted, you know, a handful of weeks. He has tried to avoid doing that so far. This is described to me by a number of people in and outside of, close to the White House, as an unsustainable situation.

So... And when things change remains to be seen, but there has been a steady drip, drip, drip. And Trump, as a number of people close to him have said to me, is never going to look at Mike Waltz the same way again. And once that happens, it's very hard to come back from.

So... And when things change remains to be seen, but there has been a steady drip, drip, drip. And Trump, as a number of people close to him have said to me, is never going to look at Mike Waltz the same way again. And once that happens, it's very hard to come back from.