Maggie Haberman

And so, like, this is his mindset and everything is sort of flat and the same and he's treating it that way. Trump never rules anything out.

And so, like, this is his mindset and everything is sort of flat and the same and he's treating it that way. Trump never rules anything out.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I think in general, he's the incoming president. So I think that after everything we have seen over the last eight years, the whole literally seriously fight seems kind of beside the point to me.

I think in general, he's the incoming president. So I think that after everything we have seen over the last eight years, the whole literally seriously fight seems kind of beside the point to me.

Yeah, and settled. And so he's saying it. I mean, part of the problem, too, Michael, is that Trump sort of everything is a troll until, as Jonathan Swan says, until it suddenly becomes serious.

Yeah, and settled. And so he's saying it. I mean, part of the problem, too, Michael, is that Trump sort of everything is a troll until, as Jonathan Swan says, until it suddenly becomes serious.

Yeah, this has been a huge subject within the White House and on Capitol Hill. And it really did, as I understand it, originate from Capitol Hill. There are a lot of members of Congress who are concerned that the way he often frames it is this person should be investigated.

Yeah, this has been a huge subject within the White House and on Capitol Hill. And it really did, as I understand it, originate from Capitol Hill. There are a lot of members of Congress who are concerned that the way he often frames it is this person should be investigated.

Now, I just want to point out, because Trump's people often do, he told me at the press, you know, that he wasn't going to direct the DOJ on what to do. And maybe that will be true and maybe it won't be true, but it almost doesn't need to be true because they know what he wants. Right. And they know what he'd like to see done.

Now, I just want to point out, because Trump's people often do, he told me at the press, you know, that he wasn't going to direct the DOJ on what to do. And maybe that will be true and maybe it won't be true, but it almost doesn't need to be true because they know what he wants. Right. And they know what he'd like to see done.

So these folks are worried about being targeted for trying to hold Trump accountable for things like trying to stay in office after losing an election or— Here talking about Liz Cheney.

So these folks are worried about being targeted for trying to hold Trump accountable for things like trying to stay in office after losing an election or— Here talking about Liz Cheney.

Liz Cheney, for instance, or Benny Thompson, who co-chaired the J6 committee with her, or Anthony Fauci, who is a top infectious diseases official in government for decades, who... Including during the Trump administration. And incurred a lot of anger for his coronavirus era recommendations. People can take issue with some of the recommendations without suggesting he somehow committed a crime.

Liz Cheney, for instance, or Benny Thompson, who co-chaired the J6 committee with her, or Anthony Fauci, who is a top infectious diseases official in government for decades, who... Including during the Trump administration. And incurred a lot of anger for his coronavirus era recommendations. People can take issue with some of the recommendations without suggesting he somehow committed a crime.

And that's where that leap goes. But if you accept a pardon, you are acknowledging some level of wrongdoing. And these folks... generally don't believe they did anything wrong, number one. Number two, the challenge for the Biden White House is where is the line? Where do you stop?

And that's where that leap goes. But if you accept a pardon, you are acknowledging some level of wrongdoing. And these folks... generally don't believe they did anything wrong, number one. Number two, the challenge for the Biden White House is where is the line? Where do you stop?

Can I just make one point real quick, Michael, in terms of what Zolan is saying? He is reflecting, but he's reflecting on what he believes he was denied.

Can I just make one point real quick, Michael, in terms of what Zolan is saying? He is reflecting, but he's reflecting on what he believes he was denied.