Malcolm Gladwell

You know, in the original Tipping Point, there's a chapter on crime, which is just why New York City crime fell in the 90s. It's an appalling chapter. I mean, it's just appalling.

Yes. Jesus. Like, what was I thinking? I mean, I didn't know any better, I guess. But it's not difficult. To me, it's very freeing to say I was wrong.

Yes. Jesus. Like, what was I thinking? I mean, I didn't know any better, I guess. But it's not difficult. To me, it's very freeing to say I was wrong.

Well, I mean, the world, yes, of course the world has changed, although probably changed less than we think. I think sometimes we fetishize... you know, certain kinds of technological innovation and think we've reinvented ourselves as human beings. And it's just, to my mind, a little bit more of the same. But mostly it's that I've moved... Like, the crime example is a good one.

Well, I mean, the world, yes, of course the world has changed, although probably changed less than we think. I think sometimes we fetishize... you know, certain kinds of technological innovation and think we've reinvented ourselves as human beings. And it's just, to my mind, a little bit more of the same. But mostly it's that I've moved... Like, the crime example is a good one.

That I wrote that... Broken Windows was a fetish in New York City in the 90s. The mayor, Giuliani at the time, was like running around and saying... you know, the only way to stop murder was to stop people from peeing on the sidewalk. Now, I think he was right to say that people shouldn't be peeing on the sidewalk and we should clean up. That was totally right.

That I wrote that... Broken Windows was a fetish in New York City in the 90s. The mayor, Giuliani at the time, was like running around and saying... you know, the only way to stop murder was to stop people from peeing on the sidewalk. Now, I think he was right to say that people shouldn't be peeing on the sidewalk and we should clean up. That was totally right.

But he made two subsequent connections. His first thing was that the way to stop people from engaging in that kind of behavior was to arrest them by the thousands. And then secondly, he said, and that's also, by the way, how you stop violent crime. Both of those second claims were, in retrospect, preposterous, right?

But he made two subsequent connections. His first thing was that the way to stop people from engaging in that kind of behavior was to arrest them by the thousands. And then secondly, he said, and that's also, by the way, how you stop violent crime. Both of those second claims were, in retrospect, preposterous, right?

In the moment in the late 90s when we had just witnessed New York go from being one of the least safe big cities in North America to one of the safest, we were sort of willing to accept, to pay any price for that improvement in safety and accept any explanation. And that was the fever that I was caught up in.

In the moment in the late 90s when we had just witnessed New York go from being one of the least safe big cities in North America to one of the safest, we were sort of willing to accept, to pay any price for that improvement in safety and accept any explanation. And that was the fever that I was caught up in.

I was like, okay, we're arresting hundreds of thousands of young black men in the Bronx and Brooklyn, but... Better that than being killed. That's what we were all thinking. And then, you know, I subsequently learned this. It's actually an incredibly interesting history. You know, what happens is a judge Stop Stop and Frisk in New York.

I was like, okay, we're arresting hundreds of thousands of young black men in the Bronx and Brooklyn, but... Better that than being killed. That's what we were all thinking. And then, you know, I subsequently learned this. It's actually an incredibly interesting history. You know, what happens is a judge Stop Stop and Frisk in New York.

We go from stopping 700,000 people in one year to stopping 20,000. And everyone says, including the judge who stopped it, crime's going to go back up. And what happens? Crime falls another 50%. And everyone's like, oh, my God. Not only was Stop and Frisk irrelevant to the crime drop, maybe it was preventing us from using police resources in a way that actually... helped solve.

We go from stopping 700,000 people in one year to stopping 20,000. And everyone says, including the judge who stopped it, crime's going to go back up. And what happens? Crime falls another 50%. And everyone's like, oh, my God. Not only was Stop and Frisk irrelevant to the crime drop, maybe it was preventing us from using police resources in a way that actually... helped solve.

So we learned this happened in 2012. And my point is, if you lived through that learning moment in 2012, when we took away stop and frisk and crime fell another 50%, if you lived through those next five years and you didn't change your mind, then you are morally bankrupt, right? You have to have changed your mind at that point. So you have to acknowledge it's not wrong to be wrong in 1996.

So we learned this happened in 2012. And my point is, if you lived through that learning moment in 2012, when we took away stop and frisk and crime fell another 50%, if you lived through those next five years and you didn't change your mind, then you are morally bankrupt, right? You have to have changed your mind at that point. So you have to acknowledge it's not wrong to be wrong in 1996.

It's wrong to not change your mind after 2012. We learn something crucial in those post-stop and frisk years. It's like you have to respond. The price of playing the game of ideas in the world is you have to stay on your toes and respond to new evidence as it arises. You want to play this game, that's the rule.

It's wrong to not change your mind after 2012. We learn something crucial in those post-stop and frisk years. It's like you have to respond. The price of playing the game of ideas in the world is you have to stay on your toes and respond to new evidence as it arises. You want to play this game, that's the rule.

So, I mean, yeah, I find it's weird. And also it was so long ago, like this is the, this was the late nineties. I'm older than you guys, but it's like, have you looked at your high school yearbook or like, it's just everything about it is cringeworthy. I mean, it should be fine to look back on your 25 years in the past self and have an issue. I would, I would hope he would have an issue.