Mallory Rubin
Appearances
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I'm not there yet, obviously, so I can't comment on that specifically. I will just say a couple things here. One, I think, again, the episode... I think the episode makes it clear that something transpired. It's just a question of what that something is. Right. I also think that the way the creators are talking about it, like, makes it pretty clear that something happened.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's just a question of what. They're, like, framing it as this, like, mystery, like, what has unfolded. Right. And I don't think, like, they literally said on the official pod, like... Like, Mason was like, I don't think this is a spoiler to see because you all have seen trailers. Like, Pedro's going to be back.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
They're not, like... And obviously, if you watch the trailers for the season, like, there are a number of shots of Joel, as we've talked about before, with, like, different hair that we haven't seen yet. So I think if people are avoiding trailers or any material entirely, they might be very surprised that we get flashbacks.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But otherwise, it seems clear that these are gaps that the show intends to fill in for us, right? And you have gotten to some of the flashbacks in the gameplay. And I have gotten to...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So I've played the three years earlier and the two years earlier flashbacks. And I mean, we'll talk about, I'll save my thoughts on the particulars there until we get to, I assume they'll be doing all of that in the show, until we get to those moments in the show. But I will just say, like, I was texting you over the weekend when I was playing some of these moments, like,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You know, I, I, I love that amazing insight in your, your description of the, the way that it evokes this very infected, tenderly language. We talk a lot about like P's, right? Protection, pain.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
it's difficult to describe how intense it is. You know, you have like lost this person and grieved and then like, there you are ported back in time. And it's about filling in this space and like understanding what has transpired between these people. But it's also just a chance to,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
like live in that moment like for a second again and it's really really sad but also like really this precious thing I just think structurally it's like a brilliant thing that they they did to and it doesn't in any way diminish the impact of having lost Joel because he is gone and that is the defining current circumstance that like Ellie is working through but we still get to be with them and like spend time in their relationships we get to go to the museum see the dinosaurs go into the space pod like
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's just really, really, really, really, really intense and great. I'm like, yeah, I understand why people talk about this game the way they do, you know? It's just amazing.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I've been thinking just in kind of a, again, we'll go through all of the micro and particular elements of this, but like in this macro sense, something that was really on my mind watching this episode was problems and purpose. Like I was thinking a lot about episode one of this season, and this idea, do you have just the most basic problems in the world? Do you not, but other people think you do?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Listen, shimmer concerns, like we know shimmer's okay. Yeah. But not for long.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I mean, God, that really got me. Shimmer. In the game. That's a rough moment. Painful.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
We said at the beginning of the season, like when we were talking about, we're like, well, except probably except for whatever episode it ends up being when Joel dies. Like this was always going to be a big one. We're going to hit back to two hours next week.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think we did it, Joe, you know, 10 seconds in, um, We already couldn't feel our asses three hours in. We definitely can't.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Do they actually... not really think you do? Do you know that you have a problem that is more specific than maybe anybody else could ever understand? At the end of the day, whatever the answer to that question is, I was thinking a lot of Bill and Frank, like some of our favorite lines from that episode, episode three of season one, when we got that beautiful little moment
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I'm just going to be, like, I think a crying mess this entire pod.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I'm, like, very emotional already. I like you older. Older means you're still here. Remember that moment, like, how it made us feel and we loved it? And, like... When you have those problems with a person in your life, it's hard. But, like, problems means you're there, right? It means you're together. Like, it means you're living life together. And that is...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
The absence of that problem now because somebody is gone is such a hard thing to have to confront, but it's so relatable. Just like it's relatable to lose... You don't lose somebody on any sort of schedule, right? They're just gone. And... Maybe you're in a good place with them and maybe you aren't. Maybe you got to say goodbye and maybe you didn't.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But like even in the apocalypse, when you're surrounded constantly by death and you're confronted constantly by grief, when that happens to you with the person you care about the most, it will feel like the only thing in the world that has ever happened to anybody ever.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And when multiple characters who feel that way are in opposition to each other and setting each other in this cycle, it's just such a potent thing to explore in a story. And, like, the other Bill and Frank thing that I was thinking about a lot was, I'm old, I'm satisfied, and you were my purpose.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And the, like, just cruelty of, like, not getting to the I'm old and I'm satisfied part with somebody when they were your purpose, too. You know? And, like... thinking of before Joel and Ellie had their breakthrough in episode four of season one, and he was like, you keep going for family. And, like, that's what they became for each other. Yeah. Like, you kept going for family.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
They kept going for each other no matter how hard it got. And it was a bond born of violence and need, but it also was a bond of love and rekindled hope. And, like, that duality, you know, that you're citing, like...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
The pain and the horror mixed with this genuine gift of, like, rediscovery that they gave each other is just, like, it just makes this relationship, I think, really genuinely special to people. And, like, I just feel really glad to, like I said last week, be back in the world talking about it with you because I just love them and I love the show and I'm just really sad that Joel's gone. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's a bloater-sized stretch of pods here.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It makes me think of the cordyceps, the fungal armor. That's how it sounds.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I know. I felt like such a sicko, but then I knew you'd be right there with me, and you were.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Absolutely delicious. Here's how you can follow along for more insights into your favorite television programs and also culinary discussions such as the one you just heard. Yeah. Follow the pod. Follow House of R. Follow all your other favorite Ringer pods on. Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. On the throne's front, like sprinkle a little hard home into your red wedding. I mean, it's hard not to admire the ambition. That is really bold. Yes. Yeah. you know, in terms of like the, so let's just, we'll say off the, from the jump here in the game, Joel and Tommy are on patrol together. Ellie and Dina are on patrol together.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So here, obviously we have Joel and Dina and then Ellie and Jesse. So those pairings are different. So something like Tom, not only is there not a battle, Tommy's not back in Jackson, like he's with Joel. So a lot of distinctions in that respect, in addition to just like the, the thing that is happening back home. Yeah. Um,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
We can get in later to what we think those changes signify for the character specifically, but broadly. I mean, I loved this episode. I loved it. I think that in terms of the question of did the battle need to be here, certainly the answer is no. Right. In the game, this stretch, like, you know, the blizzard is a factor.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And I actually, again, love that in a very Last of Us-y, like, well, maybe the weather changed your life today. Like, something that could happen pre-outbreak happens later. You never know what the thing is going to be. Love that. There is something about blizzard aside. Joel's death just happening on like what you could basically just describe as any other day. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
That makes it feel even more unfair and even crueler. And certainly like just it is the central focus. Like there's not all this other death happening all around it. I think also, you know, kind of undeniable that we don't need a battle or anything to heighten the impact of Joel's death. Like Joel's death is going to...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
hit you like a wedge to the fucking head, no matter what particular golf clubs you happen to have around. I think it is rare and interesting, though, that I'm struggling to think of too many examples where you have a battle, like a set piece of this scale in a television episode, and it is not the most monumental, notable, consequential, impactful thing that happens. And so that's like...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You can watch full video episodes of House of R and the Midnight Boys on Spotify and the Ringerverse YouTube channel. You can also follow the Ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. And of course, you can send us your emails. And boy, did you today. Thank you, bad babies. Send us your emails.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
That's interesting, right? It's like, actually, no, this quiet thing between these people that will still... That us will still be, like, the biggest wallop of all. I don't think we needed it, but ultimately where I landed is, like, I don't mind having it there. I think for me, like...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Joel's death doesn't... I think if people feel like this is a distraction or takes some of the time and focus from Joel, that will, I think, make sense to me. Totally. I don't necessarily think that it's suffered from the inclusion. And I think a death as big as Joel's and what happens here feels... This is kind of a weird thing to say. I don't know if I can say this in a way that makes sense.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Let me try. It feels independent of... Of the context of anything in the episode. I know that's like an odd thing to say because the context ultimately is the history that we bring and the characters bring to that moment. I do think that the tie between the battle and what's happening in the lodge of like...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
the white Lotus tsunami dream comp, but literalized here of like Joel's decision, sparking Abby's vengeance quest, sparking the avalanche of the unearthed snow infected. And like the way those things are then connected, um, fits thematically with something the show is interested in exploring of, like, choice and consequence and these, like, tethers and tendrils between people.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
What's your sense of, like, I mean, we're recording, you know, Monday morning, but do you have a sense of, is there kind of a consensus around this aspect of... Why is the battle here? Or, oh my God, this was dope? Or TBD?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
For The Last of Us, for Andor, for Thunderbolts, for anything, for everything, mushroom recipes for Joe to try, hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, and I liked to, in the intercutting between the Joel Abbey sequence and the battle of Jackson, the way that that works in both directions because you also then have Joel looking back and this mounting anguish and the layers of... That I did like. Dina is in this room. Oh my God, I'm defined by my insecurity, my doubt, my fear of failure. We'll talk about that a lot today as we go.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Then, of course, when Ellie is in the room, same thing. And then he has that, like, in mass looking back. I see that they're in trouble. They need me. This is my whole thing.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
To be the guy who comes in and protects people. This is what I do. I saved them. I'm a saving guy. To not be able to do it in every respect, personal and mass, is, like, just, whew, boy, heavy.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
A thrill and a joy. I mean, as you know, I'm a Merlion, a love cat enthusiast in general, so the idea of little kittens. Filoni said, according to StarWars.com, because we were not at Star Wars Celebration in Japan, sadly, but the interwebs tell us that Filoni said their legs aren't strong enough to walk, so they have to roll around to This is wonderful stuff. I mean, imagine. Imagine. I can't.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So we won't be able to pull away for anything though, including the opening credits once we start. Um, okay.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Oh, Joanna, I want you to fulfill your obligation to the community of Jackson Hole, Wyoming.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Um, First of all, just in these, like, small details, we talked about this a lot last week with those early clues of where we were and who we were with. And I think the show just continues to excel with these, like, orienting variables. Just something like present Abby standing there in the gray Henley that she will then wake up in. Like, these...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think the show, in a way that I really admire and appreciate, really trusts its viewers to pay attention, be where they need to be, get where they need to go, but also like finds a way to root us consistently and effortlessly, even though obviously, you know, a ton of effort goes into it. It feels effortless to us. I really admire the craft of that. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I have the same reaction that you did to the, I don't know you. Like, the idea of Abby warning her younger self not to go into the room where she will see this thing that will... change her life forever. Like, that will be the defining aspect of every breath she takes and decision that she makes and day she has moving forward.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Some notes about the sirens. I did specifically request the sirens, so I feel culpable for, I guess... actually terrifying a number of our listeners. But it felt like out of an abundance of caution, we need to make sure nobody can miss the warning.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Like, it is not just a thing that sets her on a path, a pursuit of vengeance. It is everything. Like, that's it. There's no... This is the before and after, right, for Abby completely. And the way that we can tell... That she laments that. That she wishes. It's not that she... It doesn't strike me that there's a part of Abby that wavers when it comes to killing Joel. It's not about that.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Like, when she is in front of him, that is definitive. As she says, like, you know, I'd warn you not to go to Seattle, but like... That's not going to be a problem, my guy. Not going to be a problem. No. But this isn't what she wanted her life to become. And I think that... you know, the tears in her eyes. It's not just the words of the warning, but the emotional state that we see her in.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And all of that connects to that larger, you know, that larger observation that you're making of, like, this question of what is being moved up and why and how do people feel about it? Like, I think this is an interesting thing for us because...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I tend to be – I definitely used to be always, and I think I still often am, but I try to be a little bit more measured about it now as I age, and hopefully, though, probably not mature. Definitely age. Like, you know, I literally have, like, a shirt that says that wasn't in the books.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Like, you know, that's so often my – even in adaptations that I love, I just, like, when I'm attached to the source material – It takes me a while to embrace a different version of it, even if I love it. And so I have nothing but understanding and empathy in my heart for people who are feeling that way about it. It's not my experience with it, though. And I think for a couple reasons.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So I say this not to try to convince anybody to feel differently. I think everybody bringing their... Ultimately, people feeling strongly about something, if they're able to then... engage in discussion and debate about that, like, respectfully and thoughtfully with each other. Like, people should feel the way that they feel about the characters they love and the worlds they love.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And when you're deeply attached to something, it can be hard to see it presented a different way. I'm so... Even though I had experienced this early stretch of the game before watching it, and so technically was familiar with the game before the show, it's like... We're talking about weeks for me, not years. Like, people who played this in 2020. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I'll acknowledge that difference. I also will ultimately, I think, reserve judgment until I both finish the game and the show, because as you often rightly remind us, a lot of this is ultimately just about execution, right? And so I will wait and see.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think where I am right now is—and again, I say this not in any way to diminish people who really hold this strongly in their hearts right now because of their attachment to the game, but just to express where I am with it—
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I see how like the mystery of Abby's motivation and history in the game is not, like not only is that an intriguing thematic onion to peel over the course of gameplay, it is of course just a propulsive engine as you are making your way through the world and you are trying to find and learn and understand, right? But you also are Abby in the game.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And so you were rooted at times in Abby's point of view in a way that in some ways I think makes it even more interesting that you don't necessarily know all of her motivations, but also still just roots you in her sense of circumstance in a way that you kind of can't do in the show unless you know a little bit more about her. Ultimately, I think that there are mysteries in different forms.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And like... So hiding a character motivation in the show, I think, would be much harder to execute. And, like, I think that the tradeoff we make in a change in structure and tactically, like, how we're presented with what we are when...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
potentially gives us a more enriching parallel into, like, how these characters make decisions that are similar or different from each other and maybe make the same mistakes as each other or potentially are able to make different decisions from each other. And I, like, I think always opt for understanding why a person is doing what they're doing over not. So, like...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But I say that again, acknowledging that I don't have, like, years of this is the way the story always went in my head.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, I agree with that completely. I think that's a great point, an important point, and I'm glad you mentioned it. I think that relatedly, not in terms of the real world aspect, but just in terms of the character aspect of it... Knowing this thing about Abby early, we are going to talk a lot today.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Right? Joel did the thing that he did because his us protecting his family, the person he loves and cares about most in the world, was the most important thing to him. And we love Joel. I am despondent that Joel is gone, but we can hold that truth in our heads while also saying that Joel did a terrible thing. And he did it because the person that he loved justified that to him.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And Abby is doing the same thing. Even though someone else doing that made her feel this way, she is now saying that losing one person, a family loss, the person you love most in the world, that grief... is more important than anybody else's life, than the ripple of their loss on other people. And that's, like, having that parallel to parse early in the story, I think is really rich.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So, you know, and then, like, I guess the last thing is just structurally, right? They're adapting the game over two seasons.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. Save this for three and a half or four years?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
In Henley? Could you sleep in and out like this? Henley, sure. I sleep in Henley's fairly regularly. But, like, all of the, you know, all the gear. Could you find rest? Does she have her gun strapped to her thigh inside of that sleeping bag? I don't know. I guess in the apocalypse, you do what you must. But you get used to it. I don't get very comfortable when I sleep.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But you know what's really warm? Like a micro-fleece pajama pant and a plush pair of socks.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Just spitballing. Dude. Yeah. The way that my stomach clenched when we watch them all like waking and just, we see the golf clubs against the wall in the background. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I had declared on, on the first episode that I would, I would be done by this week. I won't make the mistake now. Similarly, declaring that I will definitely be through my play by episode three, but that is my goal. I am quite a bit further than I was when we potted on episode one, but I am not finished yet because the game is, as we stated previously, quite long.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Much as in the flashback last episode with the hand grasping.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You know, let me tell you how patrol is going to work today and let me implore you to please just like be,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. And I thought also it was like with Tommy specific, I love that broadly. Like I think with Tommy specifically, you know, how can we not be thinking about his actual combat history as we watch him, you know, go from like soldier to general and lead, but also like fight on the front lines. And yeah, I thought that I agree.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
That word choice felt very deliberate and like the shape and form that Tommy experience takes what turns you into a veteran in this world um and how do you carry that trauma with you and like what's similar about it even though the particulars are different like the impact that that has on you and the way that that defines your life uh yeah it's i find owens um voice to be so soothing.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And, you know, my husband is not actually on mic with us potting today, but I will share some of his commentary quickly.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It almost feels like he should be reading me a bedtime story. It's disarming in a way that I'm really enjoying in these scenes because he'll speak and I'm like, oh, this is like a lullaby. But then I'm like, oh no, I'm so on edge and this is terrible. Obviously, we get some very intense versions of this later, but I like how even here we're primed for the fact that
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Not everybody in this group is on the same page. Nope. Right? And, like, when they're talking about, well, Abby's got her, you know, Owen was some very, like, Peter Quill star lord. Like, you know, I have part of a plan. I'm, like, waiting for Drax to pop up and be like, what percentage of a plan do you have? But, you know, when Abby starts to talk about making them and Owen's like, make them?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
which he offered up multiple times through the veil of the hands covering his face because he said I was making him nauseous. He was getting motion sick from the way I was handling the camera movement and the joystick. And he's been very supportive in general, but it was having an impact on him. And, you know, the game is supposed to take 30 to 40 hours as we understand it. And
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And Mel just says, like, outright, we said we weren't going to hurt people. And then, obviously, we'll see Mel's response, you know, later and Owen's response later when this is actually unfolding. But, like, that question of, okay, we followed you for five years. We told you we would, that we'd be here with you, we'd help you, and we are. Like, we did that. We're here. Yeah, we're here.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But we don't agree. And, like, it's just such an important thing for us to understand about this group, but also then about Abby. Like, this extreme state that she is in, even inside of this group of people who are all apart. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
The way that Joel is? No. I was glad that nobody in this lodge said that it smelled like burnt shit, you know, because obviously coffee is delicious and wonderful. I like their little like coffee soup, baked bean, whatever, warming up set up there. I found it very, very charming. Can't say I want to go camping with the Salt Lake crew.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I've got some notes on the things that they've allowed to happen and the things that they've done. But I do love a snack. I love a warm beverage. And I love a plan, even when it goes wrong. I think that this idea of, like, missed connections and missed, you know, what could have been different is very present in this episode.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You know, certainly, like, Owen saying here, well, this plan is to convince her to go home. Well, what if they had? What if Abby hadn't spotted... Two horses with two little specks on their backs in the distance.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And, you know, what if... We'll talk about this later, but, like, Mazin and Druckmann talking about, like, well, what if, like, Abby hadn't felt the need to just, like... You know, she just shot him and gone. Bathe in his blood. Yeah. Yeah, like, you do it and you go. I guess, like... Dina still sees the WLF patch. I know, this is my quibble. Here's the very long list of names in intro.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Well, I mean, could you could you view that as like a. A small gift, if so. You know, I guess this is yet another source of torment.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
He believes that I am tracking for something closer to 50 to 60 hours based on my pace, which might tell you something about my skill as a gamer, but... Here's how I'm spinning it. It's just an even more immersive experience, more time in the world, and I'm having a blast. I'm quite bad at it, but I'm having a blast.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Right. We don't know, but we can tell something has unfolded. And not just is the guitar back, which indicates... some interaction that we have not seen. It's not in a heap on the floor. It's not.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's not in a heap on the floor. And, you know, the fact that it is in this position of like reverence again, it is cared for. It is central. It is presented. I think this, when paired with what Ellie says to Jesse, you know, we have this like mystery of, of what has happened, but like, we have indicators as well that something has, certainly.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's a lot. It's a lot. It's quite a few. It's quite a few. I love Jesse.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
He is so good. It's just... The humor, like, you really need... You always need levity, but, like, you really need it in a story like this. And it can be so bleak. And to just have these... Obviously, this is, like, before everything that's about to happen, but even so, to just, like... First of all, it gives us some... Not much. It's hard to find any comfort.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But, like, an iota of comfort that, like, Ellie has Dina. Ellie has Jessie. Yeah. We saw that, like, charm between Ellie and Tommy last week. Like, Maria, there is, you know, we know that Ellie's biggest fear is being alone. And how can that not be top of our mind when Ellie watches Abby murder Joel in front of her? Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But to just see a little bit more of, like, the relationships that she has forged over the last five years feels like a little bit of a life raft for us in our sea of despair. And also just Jesse is funny. Like, I thought that not only the, you know, all of, like, the ribbing about the Dina kiss.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, it's fucked up you did that, too. great but even just the like when he's they're talking about the patrol time and he's like actually no it's like it's not 8 yet it's 7 30 but like I like to be on time you know and Ellie's like we know always late and like I just thought that this was a great little like rhythm of the friendship snapshot um
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, I thought this was fascinating. And, like, again, this coupled with the glimpse of the guitar in the room. What has transpired and what has unfolded? And how fully does Ellie, like...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
believe what she is saying here how much of it is about convincing herself like i agree with you regardless there is a undeniable aspect to like the beating heart of this idea that obviously like on the precipice of what is about to happen is both like a little bit of a balm you know to to
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
have heard her say this and to know that she is, like, reflecting on it and thinking it and in this place of assessing their relationship and their journey together versus, like, I don't need your help, you know, one episode ago.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, that feels, like, incredibly important, but also, like... heightens the despair in some way. Like, oh my God, what if they had been able to just go out on patrol together and spend this day together, a little daddy-daughter day, you know, as Ellie says, like this idea of just like the things you long for and the things that you miss is,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And, you know, the idea of, like, Joel just wanting to let Ellie, like, sleep, so he went out on patrol with somebody else. Just these little half sentences and little moments and the look on Ellie's face when she realizes that he's gone. And all of the different what-ifs that, like, build and compound. And, like, again, it feels so heightened in a story like this, but...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Those are the kinds of things that make a dystopian genre's mushroom zombie tale so deeply relatable because, like, one person doesn't have any number of what-ifs in their life. Like, if I could have just done this thing with this person one more time or if I could have said this thing to them, like, that's just, like, the human experience, right?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, I think that this, like, the discussion of, and there are snow lurking, lying in wait, infected in the game as well, but, like, the discussion of it here, you know, Jesse saying, like, they're using their own dead, like, insulation. The stalker who we met last week, let me tell you something, I'm having a hard time killing stalkers in the game. They're so scary.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, I feel like I've got my bloater tactics down. Yeah, stalker. The use of the radar is very key, and the stalker's, like, completely fucked that up.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But, like, yeah, there is, of course, like, there is this little bit of a... Okay, like, we're talking about a lot of this at the beginning of the episode where it really comes into play, and so it feels even more important then that we got a glimpse of not just this... new type of infected in the show world.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And then that conversation with Ellie and the council, let me just ask you, like, if everybody had not waited until morning to start their briefings, could we have gotten some metal reinforcements against the wooden logs? I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. Something for everybody to think about.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But, yeah, like, you know, priming us in addition to priming us for the battle, like, I guess just priming us more broadly for this idea of, like, the evolution. The evolution of the infected in terms of, like, actually how they are manifesting, how they are behaving. This obviously feels like an important thing in the second season of the show.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. I continue to find it rewarding and cool to see Tommy in Jackson. Just broadly. To think back to... Season one, and obviously part of, like, Joel's journey and Joel's journey with Tommy is starting to see his brother in a different way and think about his brother's life outside of their shared experience in a different way. But to think about the way that Joel talked about Tommy to Ellie...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
In episode four, you know, Tommy's what we used to call a joiner. Dreams of becoming a hero. He called him delusional for, like, continuing to make the same mistake over and over again with all... And this was before he even got to Jackson and saw him there. And... I think it's, like, important that we see that for Tommy this is right, you know?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. So I really... I liked it. And, like, the kind of easy humor and grace and, like, you can just feel the depth of, like, respect and affection that the people have for him and that he has for this place, like... To balance that idea again of the us and then the larger community, the scope will shrink for Tommy inside of this episode, as it often and really always does for our characters.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But to establish that this is a place he cares about and it is important to him to do what he can to protect it, it was cool to see.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And I liked how Ellie... you know, calls Seth out, like, okay, oh, yeah, you know, it happens to everyone. People get drunk and they say awful shit that they've never thought before. Like, it's not just that he said it, it's that he thinks it, believes it. And Ellie, we talk a lot about Ellie or Joel as these characters who react, like, on impulse, right, and instinct, and often in a very big way.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And then for Ellie to be, like, a day removed from this and still say, like, no, this thing you did is, like, fucked up and wrong, and, like, that's cool. She's right. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I mean, she's right. Yeah, of course. And seeing the way that Ellie interacts with all of the people in the community and calls them on their shit. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Ultimately, that would not hold him for long, regardless.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Pretty funny because the setting for Eugene's weed palace in this stretch of the game is a library.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Maybe I'm putting too much stock still in, like, the... season one, episode six, first interactions. But I think Maria, who is a crucial character, is often positioned in scenes to like be lecturing the other character about a thing they've done wrong based on our time with her in the show so far. So I understand at least why this might, why this would maybe be the concern.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But they have not yet shown Maria Eugene's homemade gas mask bone. And so what could that open up?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, like, so the way that I kind of read this was like, You know, with the acknowledgement that we still don't know what led to the state that Ellie and Joel were in in episode one. Like, we're saying we don't know what maybe transpired overnight between these episodes, but, like, what got them into this place?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Like, we talked about this a lot last week, how much of this is kind of the, like, creeping, increasingly impossible to ignore voice inside of Ellie's head that was like, I never believed you, and... I really can't. And how much of it is something more concrete? We don't know. That's an open question.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And seeing the Firefly pendant, period, how can it not make Ellie think of the Fireflies and this mission to get to them? And just that purpose, like that everything in season one, like this sense, as we've talked about many times in season one and last pod, this sense that Ellie had that like, it can't all be for nothing, right? Like if it could be for this.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And so just Ellie continuing, like kind of no matter what the answers to those other questions are, to think about the fact that like they went to that hospital, they got there and they didn't walk out with a cure, right? And so like, I think there's this element of any kind of trigger and reminder that ports her back to, like, what could have been.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And we have, obviously, like, this clarity about what Joel did there and what he knows. But just for Ellie, like... I don't know. It felt like this just lament again, that, like, we are still in a world... Where, I mean, my assumption is, I don't know, because as we said last week, this is, like, just different with Eugene. He just dies of a stroke, and he's not in the game.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
He's, like, someone they talk about, and he has died of a stroke.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So we don't know. My assumption, just based on how people are talking about this last episode and this episode, is that, like... Eugene got infected and Joel put him down and maybe did so before Eugene could like say goodbye to Gail, maybe did so by like once again saying like, I need to protect you. I need to like harm another person to protect you. Um,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But no matter what, it's washing up for Ellie this absence of a thing that the origin of their bond was defined by pursuing. No matter what conversations have unfolded between any characters in the game or the show at this point, there's no cure. There's no cure. Ellie's immune, and they told her there was going to be a cure, and there's not. And that's a thing that she's still carrying with her.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
emerging from their blanket of snow. Correct. I did not spot Jojen Reed in this episode of television, but he was on my mind.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
That reminded me of the head emerging from the snow, but also just this, in general, the kind of activation of the snow pod and the rippling of the surface of the snow and the clicker head starts to move and the hand moves. People who are not watching on video are missing this. I'm playing air keyboard here. Check us out. Full video episodes on Spotify or the Ringerverse YouTube channel. But...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
both that one close-up shot of the emerging head, but then more broadly that kind of rippling surface, reminded me so strongly of the visuals in, even though it's a much smaller group of infected, the horde in Kansas City, which, like, the burbling of the asphalt before they came through, and then the kind of cresting of the infected over the edge. You love a bloater.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You know, I love to beat a bloater. It feels good when I beat a bloater. But... You've mentioned that complacency line. And so that's an interesting comp too, right? To think of Kansas City and like that warning that Kathleen got that something was like, Let's be clear. Now, it's not the same.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
There's like a thing behind a door in Kansas City that is very clearly about to doom them all. Yeah. That's a different degree of negligence. I'm not claiming that what's happening in Jackson is negligence, but I think because the showrunners, the creators, are...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Pinging that, like, note and hitting that note about, like, well, you – in Kathleen's case, she's, like, blinded by her need to find Henry. That's a very different emotional state. In Jackson, it's, like, the opposite of can we allow ourselves to believe that we can just live a normal life? Can we just have a New Year's party? Yeah, have a New Year's party. Fix the houses. Fix the plumbing. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You're not supposed to live. New people in, you know, so completely different motivations, completely different like head spaces and emotional states. But in a way, actually, that makes it more the place that we find ourselves in then as viewers on the other end of it is like almost more deflating because it's like, well, wait, what? What is the path forward then?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
If you think you can rebuild and you try, this is what happens. If you don't even think that there's a way forward because you're so lost in this just quagmire of resentment, you're lost. What is the path forward then? I mean, that's a pretty heavy question to carry.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Um, first of all, you and you and Rob chatted about this a little bit in, uh, in the episode one pod, but just this idea of like the landscape and the role of the landscape plays in the story. And that was like a great discussion.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And then it was on my mind watching this because both the, the, the wide shots and then this, like you have a narrowing in your shrunk, you're compressed, you're under the fence, but like that actually kind of, uh, It makes it even more apparent than it just obviously would be that we're in broadly this like big, vast, open space.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You know, so you take the idea of openness that previously has felt to us like safety. Tommy and Maria talk about this with Joel and Ellie when they arrive in season one, right? The fact that they can just look out and it's a turkey shoot. Yeah, you can see everything. That's like allowed them to be safe.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And then here, the fact that there's all of like this distance and these beds of snow, they don't know. There's so much space they can't account for. They don't know what's waiting for them in the same area that they used to think brought them safety. Harrowing. And then you shrink it and you literally press it down on you.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And it won't surprise you or anyone to hear that I did not make it out of this sequence alive the first time I played it.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think actually I got through on... the second try.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
They would never find a bite mark on my body because there would be no flesh left. to check for bite marks. I would be annihilated. Devoured. Bones only. Down to the cob. Exactly. A yellow jacket-esque just pile of bones. No flesh left. Just for Abby to wind up in this circumstance, though, it's like... It tells us so much about her, right?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
The fact that she has put herself in this position of mortal peril where she could die before she is able to achieve the thing that she is seeking because she is so driven by this need for blood. Yeah. A lot of people don't go down the hill after the two horses in the first place, and she did.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, I was. We talked about this very briefly in our spoiler section at the end of last week's episode. But to move it out here on Maine now, unlike stay off Main Street citizens of Jackson Hole, we are allowed to go on to Maine. I, you know, my suspicions had mounted based on certain context clues, but had somehow made it to playing the game without actually having Joel's death mentioned.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. I also love this. I think in both the game and the show, this stretch is just fantastic. The gun poking into the frame... Because you're Abby at that stretch in the game, you're like trying to survive. So there's this wave of relief and then waves of dread start quickly following. That's just an impressive thing to be able to do so quickly.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
When Joel's hand reaches out, he offers his hand to Abby. He's screaming at her to get up. And we don't just see his hand, we see the watch. Yeah. And like... Sarah's watch being framed in this moment, I mean, it's perfect for, I think, a number of different reasons. Obviously, as we've talked about many times, that's when time stopped for Joel until it started again with Ellie.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So what a perfect thing to show us when we are with this other character, Abby, who time has stopped for, too, because of losing somebody close to her in her life. But also, like, the watch, the glimpse of the watch putting Sarah on our minds... And of course then Ellie on our minds, it's such a perfect thing to do because Joel, on the one hand, what you said is obviously right.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Like Joel protecting, Joel helping, that's Joel's thing. But also like, I think inside of that, there's this little wrinkle, right?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. Right? And so, like, you know, we've talked a lot about all of the different times that he invoked, like, to Ellie in season one, you know, other people in episode three. Like, oh, there are an effect on this road? Like, what are you looking for? Other people. Can I build a fire in episode four in the woods? Like, what am I going to tell you? People. Right?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
We talked last episode about the conversation with Benji and the map. All of it. Yeah. Why help this person? Because of the impulse to protect? Absolutely. But also, like, it feels like he's looking at a – he calls her kid. Yeah. He calls her kid.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It feels like he's looking at somebody who reminds him of Ellie and Sarah and, like, that paternal instinct to need to try to help somebody who reminds him of the people that he couldn't bear to lose. The irony of that. I know. I think it's, like, almost unbearable.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And then to get back to what you – to keep going with that, to go back to what you were saying a couple minutes ago about Abby's point of view then.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
spoiled for me and it was just like a shattering experience book to play it and and now then to just a few weeks later watch it um you know for in terms of what you're saying about kind of like spoiler culture and the different like slices and slivers of a fandom and the moment then when something allows different groups of people who are consuming something to share it
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And the humanity, but also the practical. It's like Abby's experiencing that in reverse where she's like, oh, my God, this guy saved me, like you're saying. When she's looking at the gun in his hand, though, it's just like, oh, right. Yeah. And she doesn't have her gun. I'm anchored again.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
That's the gun that did the thing that I'm here because of. Like, that's what this is all about.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And all of that, like, also just, again, in terms of kind of the structure of the episode and the season, like, I believe this is, I guess I don't, I might be including the, like, big HBO, you know, all of our wonderful programs in the minute count here, but, like, this is, like, 23 minutes into the episode, right? we're about to lose Joel.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And like, we don't get him in the episode until 23 minutes in. And then the, the, the way that it hits us when he's here, it's just like an incredible exercise and restraint and discipline to calibrate this moment with such perfection and care. Um,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
The complete lack of hesitation as they're mobilized. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But probably you won't. I love the blend, too, of just, like, the general, like, Ellie's charting her own course aspect of this. But also... with the Joel-specific aspect of this that Jesse is surely clocking. Like, okay, they haven't been getting along back in town, but, like, Jesse knows that the fact that Joel is in, is not radioing in, that, like, Ellie won't stop until she finds him.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
something, that knowledge together. It is really interesting to come at this from like a different perspective to how we experienced the red wedding, for example, where we were the ones like,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Ellie will allow herself to be killed in the blizzard, dead in the cold, before she gives up on trying to find him. That's just who she is and who they are for each other. And I thought the, like, decisiveness with which Ellie and Jesse mobilized was really interesting as a point of contrast to Joel almost begging. Like, I'm thinking. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm thinking.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
When they're trying to figure out what to do. This is right before Abby. Right, right, right.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Right before Abby's like, oh, well, I've got a lodge. This is how I'm going to get you to the lodge. It's fine. And, you know, we have heard so much across season one and talked so much about, like, Joel's – insecurity, you know, and the way that he voiced to Tommy in episode six, like, all I did was stand there. I couldn't move. I couldn't think of anything to say. I just, I was so afraid.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Like, it's just, like, so heartbreaking to... To wonder if Joel was feeling that again in this moment, you know? Like, am I going to be able to get where I need to be quickly enough to help the people? And then again, when he sees Jackson on fire, it's just like all of Joel's worst fears and doubts and sources of shame surfacing in these final moments for him.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's like, I mean, for a character we love, it's just such a painful thing to see him suffer through. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Looking at people on the side of the couch, waiting, watching, hoping not to spoil anything for them, but just the anticipation of everybody arriving at that level of knowledge and understanding and that emotional state that would then be shared moving forward. It's always a fascinating- Share my pain with me.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Welcome to my pain. I can't carry it, but I can carry you. Yeah. I got, you know, reverse red wedding here because Adam knew this was coming. And so when I was playing it in the game for the first time, he filmed me experiencing it. I sent you and Steve a little brief video. We'll see what mood I'm in later. Maybe I'll send it to Carlos to put in the pot.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I'd like to think that Gail is just like high out of her mind. You know, another bottle of bourbon deep smoking and she's like, Oh, you know, incorporated the sounds of the cat. I did not. I got to be honest. I did not think about cat once.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So, yeah, that's a great point. I think that is a really fair and valid note. I. I think that. I also feel that way about all of the Thrones comps that you're citing or Helm's Deep or whatever it is. It is the fear that we have in our hearts for the people who are huddling in a given space or engaged in a certain showdown that we ultimately care the most about.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think that in Last of Us in general, but I think especially inside of this episode, because what's happening with Joel and Abby... is to me like, okay, the backdrop of all of it is this vast, the biggest thing, the most macro thing. This doctor, the fireflies, they were trying to find a cure, right?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
They were trying to fend off the thing that Marlene invokes in the parking garage at the end of season one. Like, you know, they're going to be living in a doomed world that like you didn't save. And yeah,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
What happens, even though it is the biggest, vastest thing inside of the lodge with Abby and Joel, is that we end up looking and the show ends up looking through the scope of our rifle at the smallest possible thing in the crosshair, which is like one other person who made you feel like a certain way.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And so I think because that conflict is so rooted in individual history, loss, pain, it actually was interesting to me that Jackson was almost felt... like deliberately the opposite of that. Like it's really almost like the, the reminder of what the thing could be or is that was lost or that you're trying to rebuild. Like we act, you're right. Like we don't know very much about the people there.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And many of the people there who we do know were not inside of those walls. There are in states of peril, but elsewhere. Right. Um, But the idea of Jackson, what Jackson represents to those characters and in the world, like the fact that that was in jeopardy, I think gave me the feeling that a lot of the individual character bonds I have maybe do elsewhere. But I think it's a great note.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Would you have been surprised if instead of ringing bells, someone had sounded a horn three times?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I was very worried for the dogs. I would have preferred that they stayed safely ensconced in their little kennel there. Worried for them though they, you know, I'm like, I don't need another summer. Yeah. Like, I can't handle it. I'm just, like, still carrying too much pain. But, yeah, they had to... You know, that infected horde moved with a quickness. Like, up the stairs and to the roofs. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's like 12 seconds and I'm just like curled under a blanket, like in a state of absolute anguish and despair. I don't understand.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Through the bread, through the baking bread in a real hurry. And...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You know, the opening of the pipe and the pulling, the one pull of the tendrils, like, it was, I mean, I was about to say it was fun to think, horrible, but, you know, it's always fun when Tess is on our minds, and I liked having an excuse to, like, think of that early lesson that Tess gave Ellie in episode two of season one, like, they're connected more than you know, which is, of course, one of the founding ideas of this podcast, both with each other, but also the way that we, weirdly, I think probably to many people, talk about Tess.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So you got it, Joe. I mean, here. Yeah. Like Abby activates the, uh, Abby activates the horde, but, um, they, they, they, they activated the, as Mason calls it, the, the wood wide web, right? A little touch of the tendril. And, uh, there you are.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
The Jorah Erasure will not stand on House of R. Ever. Ever. Today or ever. Yeah. Very funny email.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You know, it's just there are a lot of differences between overall what happens in this episode and the game with the battle incorporation, which pairings are out on patrol together. We're going to talk about all of that. Obviously, with the Abby, Joel, Ellie sequence, we're going to go through all of the things that it brought up for us as we go through the episode.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Great stuff. At no point did a giant enter a courtyard and pick up a beloved character. So that's a difference, at least. Bloater to the sea.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
types of infected like the different stages of the infection all you know you have different tactics are necessary to kill a different type of infected so for all of them to just be right there like on the roof with you or on the street with you it's i would just but i think i would do what the flamethrower guys did which is like run for your life shit my pants panic and run i mean i just like you
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But just like generally speaking. Yeah. to hit that so early in the game, to hit this so early in... It wasn't the first episode, but it is still the second episode of the second season. It's like this incomparable wallop. I mean, the list is really short for me of comps, of, like, that state that it put me in. You know, it is. Like, it's Red Wedding. It's Baylor. It's the lightning-struck tower.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Spine tingling. And I'll just say very quickly before we go through all of the... horrible things that have happened here. This little extra element in the show version of Abby not only doing this thing to Joel, but also stopping him from going back. Yeah. I don't know. There's like an, yeah, there's an extra layer of savagery and brutality there. Like, I didn't just kill you and torment you.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I took away from you the ability to go try to save the people you love. It's just like another degree of horror.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yes, an injection that knocks her out for an hour. I mean, she's got frostbite on the arm. She's going through it. But Tommy just gets, like, multiple butt-of-a-gun bashes to the head to knock him out.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Just Abby's demeanor here. The change in demeanor when she says Joel, as you noted. The change in everybody's demeanor in the room when she says Joel. But then... Every single word that she utters from here and the shifting, like the oscillation between tears and grief and just like unceasing, uncontainable wrath.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Like, it's just a shocking thing. And I think in this particular case, the fact that time has passed for the characters, but we... But for us, it's like, we're back. We're in the world. Oh, my God. I get to boot up The Last of Us Part II. I get to watch The Last of Us Season II. I get to be with these people that I've missed.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I agree, and that's kind of an amazing thing to see because our expectations were incredibly high given the material, but also given our just deep and abiding admiration for this performer. So I just thought this was mesmerizing. And I mean, Pedro Pascal barely uttering a word, equally mesmerizing. This was just electric, every look that's passing between them.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
We love to talk about Station Eleven, and we love to talk about the To the Monsters
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
We're the monsters idea. And there are like, it's hard to find two characters who better embody that idea to each other than Joel and Abby. And like when, you know, obviously there's like a, you know, the little chuckle of congrats on that for the, you actually are pretty handsome moment, but.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I was just struck by like this moment for Abby of sharing this description, saying this thing out loud, like this picture that she has been carrying in her head, right? This thing that she has been seeing, this person she has been seeing in her mind's eye for five years. And it's like the way that she said it, like she was passing under the checkered flag. Like I won. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
This is my victory lap. And it had such a... Have we mentioned Game of Thrones yet? It had such a there's no justice in the world, not unless we make it vibe to it for Abby and her pursuit.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And then to feel that ripped away, what it does for you as a player and a viewer, to put you in that state that Ellie's in of, like, unvarnished pain and misery. I have so many things I want to say and so many things I want to talk to you about today. But, like, it's just...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, I thought that the... Great email. I agree, too. Like, the...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
the moments where he is meeting her eye, the moments where his eyeline is cast down, when he looks back up, like tracking that across this entire exchange, um, to, to the point, uh, that you were just making about Dina and that, the function of Dina in that scene, like, you know, again, it's like, how can we not think of the, I'm failing in my sleep, uh, idea that Joel shared with Tommy about Ellie, about Sarah, like everyone who makes him feel this way.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Um, The moment of coming to account, this accountability of saying the thing. Mazin and Druckmann talked about this on the official pod. It's really striking watching it. It was interesting to hear them talk about it. It's an admission, but it's not regret. No. And that's a fascinating thing to watch Joel navigate.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Regret that he clearly is confronting the fact that he will not be with Ellie moving forward.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. I loved the part of the pod where they talked about the trolley problem and how like... Yeah. their characters don't engage in the thought experiment of the trolley problem. There is no trolley problem. It's like the choice is clear to them.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And that's, that's part of why these circumstances then unfold. It's just like so fascinating.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's a state of actual genuine anguish that I think is really brave and really brilliant and is not just there to stun us or wow us or shock us. It is there because of the thematic resonance and emotional impact of loss and grief in this world and the things that people do when they experience loss and they are subsumed by grief. So what a place to be. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Oh, man. I love that parallel. You mentioned... earlier that Kathleen and Henry were really on your mind watching this episode. And this was one of the moments that they were on my mind thinking of what Henry said in that fifth episode. You know what happens when you do that to people, the moment they get a chance, they do it right back. And like, to be clear, Joel is not Fedra.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
That is not how I feel about Joel. I love Joel and I am in a state of mourning and despair. I think that's what's different about us, people who have this connection to Joel and this history with Joel and the game and the show, whichever, and Abby, is like that we are capable.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And obviously part of the rich debate around the end of the first game and the end of the first show is that not everybody agrees. But even so, like we are capable of holding an action that Joel takes and a decision that he makes in judgment without holding Joel as a human being in a full state of, like, irredeemable contempt. Yeah. But Abby is not. And she's not interested in trying.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
parallel to other characters but then contrast um with how with what we are bringing to a scene and what the characters inside of it are like that just like unceasing unyielding unvarnished sense of like i have one mission one focus and how that unites abby and joel in the past in the story and like this question of then will it unite abby and ellie moving forward is uh it's it's it's a heavy thing a heavy thing to parse
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah. It's, it's interesting. I think I'm just like, So I was just so... I think that it's all really valid. I was so swept up in every moment of this. So good. Seeing... Abby's eyes on Joel, again, we're in Star Wars season again, it felt to me like he was locked in the tractor beam of her judgment.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You mentioned on our trailer pod and on our season two premiere pod, the discussion around the differences in the physical stature of game Abby and show Abby. And I think in this sequence here, it is so... striking that Abby's physical size is like not the thing that matters. It is the weight of her rage. That's it.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But also this scene is rooting us in being a child. I mean, 19 is not like – but you're young. You're a young person. And the way that – the way that Caitlin Deaver delivered this line when Abby said, but I looked at him. I saw him. I was 19. And how old is Ellie now when she's going to look at Joel and see him? Like –
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think the thing that, okay, boomers, now it's killing me. I think the thing that hit me hardest about this was like, You know that really particular and keen type of misery you experience when a person you don't like says something true about you? You know what I mean?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's a terrible feeling. Desperately. And... No, I don't think of Joel this way, but the thing that matters is that we know he thinks this about himself. That he couldn't hear. Like, that he wasn't fast enough. Yeah. That he had lost his edge. And, like... It's painful for the person across the room who's about to take everything away to like give voice to that innermost fear.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
That's just like a really supreme and cutting kind of vulnerability and like really, really potent to watch. This is all bad. Everything we're about to talk about from here. I mean, I was already a wreck, but like this just like destroyed me. It's about to get worse because here comes Ellie, right? And you have like that moment, Jo. Like one little tiny glimmer. She can save him.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think there's like a... Amid the horror and the anguish of what we're witnessing here, that first cry of Joel from Ellie's mouth, the get up, the get up, the get up. There's a little part of it that's like... at least Joel got to see how much she cared. Yes. You know? Yes. But then the twitching of the finger and the little, like, what do we, I mean, is it half an inch, the raising of the head?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Barely, yeah. Like, to not be able to get to her. It's just like, it absolutely broke me. I mean, seeing this in the game, I was like, I was actually having, like, a kind of, like, I don't understand, like, how could this be happening moment. And then watching it in the show, it was just, like, pure emotion. And the performances all around in the scene are just so good.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And, you know, we've talked about what everybody's feeling and thinking, what Joel is feeling and thinking, what Abby is feeling and thinking. And, like, for Ellie, you know, again, to go back to that idea of, like, What did she write on the pad to Sam when he asked what she was afraid of? I'm scared of ending up alone.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And when she and Joel had that fight in the bedroom in Jackson in season one, and he was like, you don't know what loss is. And she said, everybody I've cared for has either died or left me. Everybody fucking except for you. So don't tell me that I'm safer with someone else because the truth is I would just be more scared.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And, like, whatever choice Joel made and whatever they went through, that was the defining truth that drove what she said to Jesse at the beginning of the episode. Like, Joel is that person in her life who helps her feel less afraid. And, like, that's gone now.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, of course. It's a dangerous thing when the characters of the story are driven by, as is such a human thing, as we all are, our insecurities and our fears and our doubts, but also then our certainty. Yeah. Like, our conviction that we are absolutely right and that the thing we are going to do is absolutely right.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And so, like, when we think about not only the parallels that have brought us to this point, but what the parallels might be moving forward, like, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to kill you. You're going to die. You're all going to fucking die. Yeah. The emotion that we see from Ellie here, but also that venom. Yes. Yes. We've seen that from Abby.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's much more muted in Joel, but all of those same emotions, the impulse for violence, the impulse to act to protect are all in the brew together. Brew.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's a great question and observation from Gina. I really liked it because I think
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
and we talked about like these, these visual tapestries a lot in season one, like one that just pops into mind, this might not be the best comp, but like one that just pops into my mind right now is like that, uh, the moment in episode two when Ellie like wakes kind of in the fetal position and she's in the beam of light and Tess and Joel are like in the shadows and the darkness.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I just like always have enjoyed when the show plays with light and shadow and, um, leans into the idea that those things are entwined in this world and that you're never, no matter which, are you in the beam or are you in the shadow, you're never more than, like, the tip of a toe away from the other. And so pouring the light into such a dark sequence, I thought was appropriate.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think, like, the email that you just read from Skylar, that comp had not occurred to me. I love that. I think... When Ellie grabs Joel's hand and when Ellie just kind of, like, drapes herself over him, it's, like, unbearable to watch. The thing that I was thinking of was Ellie being born and this other moment of, like, being entwined with this parent who is dying, who is gone. And...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
this idea that for Ellie, like loss has defined her life before she even understood it, you know, before she even knew who these people were or what it would mean to feel that way about somebody, what it would mean to love them and then to lose them and then to miss them. That was the course that she was on. And it's just really, really, really heartbreaking. It's really heartbreaking.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But then the fact that she could find her way to some sense of like, belonging and shared experience, it gives us hope that maybe she can do that again. As bleak as things seem now.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Mal? It's not quite... At the level of at the end of the long night, like literally live streaming Talk the Thrones and just like looking into the camera and being like, can anyone tell me if Ghost is visible in the scenes for next week before I have an aneurysm on air? Because we had to get out to set before we could even watch this. But it's on my mind.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
And I feel that the bad babies, as always, are engaging in this is our community. You know, when we talk about community, it's like we have the same things on our minds.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
You were on Instagram stories on Friday night flexing on everyone. You should apply to Top Chef. This was unbelievable.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Anything you want to say, Mallory, on the spoiler warning front? You know, I think episode one was the most intense to bounce if you don't want to hear that Joel's going to die. But still, we will now talk about things that have yet to happen in the show that are going to happen because they've happened in the game. So if you don't want to hear that, we will see you next week for our episode three.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Of course, they've got a very special... It was an internet wrapping of the blanket around a dude you used to fuck who has impregnated another member of your... Yeah. Crew? In the intro.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Do you think there's, like, is there a chance that this is going to just not be in the show? No.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I guess the thing that feels odd to me about not putting this... Obviously, there's still plenty to come, and so it can still have this impact. But this question, the devastation that you mentioned, but also split allegiance. That's the thing that feels so keen right away from Abby's perspective is like, oh...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I just have to, I mean, there's no way that this scene isn't going to happen between Ellie and Dina. So my assumption is that this has just been delayed.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So there was a moment in this episode when, you know, we're having the cute little like Jesse's giving Ellie shit and Ellie's like, no, like it didn't mean anything. She was just drunk. She was just high. Where to that point, I do wonder if...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I do wonder if the show is, like, actually going to play for a little bit longer with, like, Ellie's doubt about whether this thing between her and Dina is real. Yeah. Which would be interesting.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think also, like, we talked last week, you cited that maze and idea that, like, kind of core text of how he views the story that, like, I'm paraphrasing, but the good moments in your life are always just interrupted by the bad. And so on the one hand in the game, it's like,
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It's that, you know, Ellie and Adina are together and they take the step in their relationship and it's beautiful and obviously meaningful. And then right on the heels of that, like Joel dies. Like that's...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, exactly. So that would, that obviously is very at home, that kind of sequencing in this world and in the story. I wonder if they thought that was like... Just, like, if we move it, it can be, like, a healing thing. It can be, like, a salve that, like, Ellie can find a moment of joy and happiness with another person after going through this horrible thing.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So, like, that's my hope is that this scene is still to come. Obviously, it's not in the weed house, but just, yeah, like, I mean, maybe they do go back to the weed house. I assume that will happen on the road to...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Oh, man. I don't know. I have no idea. I hope not. I don't want to have to wait until season three to see Abby again. I mean, it's such a short season, seven episodes, that if it were the finale, that we'd have Abby in three of the seven episodes. And that balance actually feels kind of right to me. But... So maybe if it's just a finale, it's okay.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
But if Abby's not back in this season at all, that would be like... Weird.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
This is the point of the spoiler section, to talk about the things that they're setting up in the show. So you're doing your... Do your duty. Go on. Do your duty. Do your duty.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I think like I've just been programmed by a season and now a game and a half to like not get attached for long to the people who enter my life. So, yeah. I think in that sense, if that's the fate that awaits Jesse, actually a little line like that between him and Ellie, it's impactful. It carries a lot of weight.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
It gives us a sense, in addition to what we've glimpsed directly, of the role that Jesse plays in this community and the respect that people have for him and the trust that they put in him. Also, then it's really sad to think what would his future have been. Yeah.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
I was, like, just seeing them on the... I'm so sorry. Seeing them on the horses at the end, obviously, like, mostly I'm just completely torn up by watching Ellie turn around and look at Joel's little, like... Wrapped up body. Corpse sled. But just seeing Dina...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Ellie and Jesse together like that when they're about to wind up on the road together and, like, the pregnancy and just they're kind of... naughty, but also full of affection and love for each other. Yeah, triangle.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
So I don't know. I mean, you never can tell how much they're showing you. Like, will Ellie set out in the middle of the episode? Maybe. But is episode three this, like, bridge? Mourning, reflection, grief, and then... The journey to Seattle begins in episode four. I'll be curious to see just, like, the pacing, given that we only have seven episodes to work with.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Yeah, and, like, again, I'm just going off the, like, 20-second trailer for next week, but... When Ellie is kneeling in front of Joel's tombstone, like, there's no snow on the ground. It seems like time has passed. Is that because Ellie's healing? Right. Because, like, she's waking up from her grievous injury.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Seems like they're, like, in the glimpse of next week, like, draining fluid from her, like, collapsed lung or something. Very gnarly. Not great. But, yeah. So, and I'm just curious to see, like... I'm really curious to see what is the same or different with Tommy.
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Because... I mean, we talked about a lot of the Tommy choices and changes and what will the implications of that be in our episode one pod. But, like, so Tommy is not there. But he still lost Joel. Like, Joel died. This happened. Tommy has...
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
A son now, like, so much of the early stretch of seeking out Abby and looking for the wolves and, like, coming across the scars and everything is, like, Ellie basically, like, haunting Tommy's steps, you know, in pursuit of Tommy. Like, a little bit behind him on his quest. Is that going to happen the same way in the show I'm fascinated to see? Or is that going to be different?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
Because a lot of Tommy's stuff has been different. I'll be really curious. I assume he has to still go. Like, has to. But... Will something be different about how that unfolds?
House of R
'The Last of Us' Season 2, Episode 2 Deep Dive
This one I got on the Joe Rob pod. Oh. Got hit with it there, listening last week. So this was not an in-doc spoiler.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But I would say if you're fretting at home whether or not they're going to get a fourth season, this is a hit for the network. So they're going to get a fourth season. Are they going to get a fifth season, I think, is the question. And that has nothing to do with what the network wants, but sort of creatively, are they going to do a fifth season? So that is what is going on.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I love that. I love that. Um, so yeah, so, uh, so sigh, you know, breathe, breathe, calmly breathe some relief. We are going to get more of the story, but, uh, how much more of the story I think is the question right now. Um, on that front, on that THR piece, you know, what we like to do this, like, Oh, sorry. One more thing I want to say.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
to your point about like, so Mari being pit girl, which is something that like, not just us, but like so many people have clocked for so long. Even the actress gave an interview and was just sort of like, yeah, I was pretty sure that I was the pit girl from like the beginning. Like we were all pretty sure it was me. But like, so for it to be Mari, two things.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
One, it underlines something that I love to say on pods, which is just sort of like, Around my feelings around spoiler culture. Now, like, I have really altered the way in which I engage with spoilers because of how I podcast with you and how, like, the Ringer audience likes to interact with spoiler culture.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But, like, the thing that we always used to say on, like, Storm of Spoilers when I did that podcast was, like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
it's not it's not what it's the execution right that matters and so like you could know what's going to happen and it can either be executed well or executed poorly so like we were really sure that mari was going in that pit yes but the way they executed both in the incredible character rehab that they did for her this season like historic genuinely some of the best character rehabbing i've ever seen in my life right so like uh so the character rehab so getting us like
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson, not Jodi Walker, joining me today. No baseball hat on her head, but here just to fill my heart with joy, it's my beloved Molly Rubin. Mallory! Hello.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yes, a double finale week for us and a premiere week for us. What a piping hot time here in the House of R and the Ringiverse. My goodness. And next week, it's Andor week. Can't believe it. Started my rewatch. Just what a fucking blast. So good. Popped in that physical media, those 4K discs. Looks stunning. Oh, I bet. Stunning.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
No, not Mari after saying get in the pit Mari over and over again. So all of that. But then also, yeah, it just matters how you do it. And like we were watching her run inevitably towards something we knew was coming. And it was like I was edge of my seat. It wasn't edge of my seat. I maybe she'll maybe they'll zag and she won't go in the pit. It was just the edge of my seat. When's the moment?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
How many more seconds do I have with Mari? What is everybody else thinking and feeling about it?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I thought it was really well done. A thing we like to do at the top Or I like to do anyway, is this unreliable narrator slash hallucinator slash dreamer counter. And we can talk about, you know, like certainly Lottie, like, you know, there are certain plenty of people inside of this episode where we can talk about that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But something that Bart Nickerson said in the THR piece and has said versions of this before. Right. But I was just reminded of it and it was just like a real like... What are we doing here moment? Is Bart says, quote, we're not seeing anything that is necessarily entirely objective, even in the present day storyline.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And that is sometimes hard for me to wrap my arms around because like when I'm trying to parse a show, it's less to do with like theorizing and mystery and stuff like that. And more to do with like, I want to be sure I can track the emotional reality of characters. And if at any point the show is like, actually that didn't happen, that's... a little tough for me to think about.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Do you have any thoughts or feelings when you read something like that?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah, it gives me pause and some trepidation in my gut as well. I think that Yellow Jackets is the kind of show in which... an idea like that and an approach like that can simultaneously work much better and actually be, like, important in a way that it maybe wouldn't in certain other shows and also is riskier. Because when everything is about...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I mean, we're going to talk about this a lot as we go through all of the beats of the finale, where the idea of memory and remembering and what are you repressing and why? And then what has activated inside of you and new and why is so central to the text and to the character journeys. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Because of that, the idea that there is a very much like in the eye of the beholder interpretation of events, recollection of events feels like not only true and reasonable based on what the characters have been through, but also like it would be in keeping with how we are assessing their journeys already.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
all of that said it can it can tip so easily into just we are we are kind of in the pit and we are navigating in every scene we consume and interpret uh impaling spears we're like we sort of never know if we can trust the ground that we're we're navigating um so i think it is i think it is risky i guess the fact that it's on their minds actively um gives me some
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
comfort because hopefully it's something that they're deliberately like accounting for as they work but it is the kind of thing that feels like it can just sort of be wielded as a cover also which i don't i don't love yeah yeah exactly and there's a few things inside of this episode and throughout that feel a bit of like uh spackle for definitely writing zigzags and casting choices and stuff like that but like i think that um
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah, it looks great. Oh, that's a great investment. I didn't do that. Clever girl. Okay. Adam did it. I had literally nothing to do with it. Clever, Adam. Okay. So all of that's happening. There's also the Midnight Boys, I believe, are hoping to cover Sinners, a film that I am extremely excited about. The long-awaited Midnight Munchies episode.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
to your point, like we got an email a little while back from someone who was like, when I was talking about the no eye man being an ice cream mascot and we got a, we got a, we got a, an email from someone called people being like, well, do you think that actually happened? Like, did Van and Ty actually go to that place?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Did, did they, did Ty actually see anything on that video or was it just, did Van actually see anything or was it just Ty hallucinating? Like all this sort of stuff like that. And I was like, I feel like it is important to me to know that answer. It's important to me to know whether or not Van saw the same thing that Ty saw.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
If Ty sees a No Eye on Man ice cream mascot and Van looking at the same thing sees, I don't know, an Unscary Clown, whatever it actually was... I, the audience would like to know that, uh, that feels important for me to know because it, it, it determines how by van is thinking about tie, uh, at any given moment. So that's, that's just, that's, it can be, it can be sticky. Okay.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Speaking of emails, mailbox, et cetera, um, is on my mind. Cause it's in the last of us season two, they have a mailbox, et cetera, in Jackson. So I've just been thinking about it. Do you know, I used to work at a mailbox, et cetera. It's true. Okay. Yeah. No free ads for a company that doesn't exist anymore. Oh, just like on a, I think like a winter break from college.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I spent like a couple of weeks working at a mailbox, et cetera. I had a great time. Learned a lot about laminating and notarizing things.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Very useful. I honestly couldn't notarize because I was not a notary, but we had a notary and I learned a lot of things. A lot of things about what people come in to get notarized. Okay. Yeah. Tatum wrote in to let us know that the track names for Season 3, the Season 3 score, are great. Highlights being, quote, Goop Sorceress, quote, Pushed by a Cult Nutso.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And quote, the birds and the bees of frog orgies. Love it. Thank you for highlighting that, Tatum. I'm always bad at paying attention to the score track names, but I love a pun score track name. I love like when, you know, Ramin Djawadi, not very pun based, but just some really notable names. Michael Cicchino, of course, king of the TV score puns sort of thing. So thank you for that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Goop sorceress, just iconic. Really good. Okay. Lauren wrote in to ask about the significance of 25 years later, which I'm certain is something that we've talked about before.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But in terms of, like, memory and 25 years later... Lauren was like, is there, Lauren was asking if there's sort of like a supernatural, like, in 25 years, the wilderness will allow you to remember the things that you suppressed or something like that. And that's, it's possible. She also notes that we've been seeing, you know, the number 25, that the flight number was 2525.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's Shauna's journal safe combination. It was on the vial that young Van injects.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That's for the Sudeikis as usual. Yeah, of course. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
On the vial that young man injects into the man's IV bag, blah, blah, blah. So, like, obviously, we love to talk about numbers and as they recur. To me, there's a couple options. Pop culturally, there is... Twin Peaks. I'll See You Again Another 25 Years is like a very famous line from the original Twin Peaks show, and then 25 years later they did Twin Peaks The Return.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Button Mash is covering The Last of Us from like a gaming POV. So there's a lot going on. Mallory Rubin. Yeah. Andor, Last of Us, Daredevil, Munchies, Sinners. How can folks keep track of all of that yummy, scrummy content?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That was like, that's a whole Lynchian cycle. But I think more importantly, and I was thinking about it a lot when I was thinking about some of the Callie Lottie stuff inside of, we didn't even talk about the fact that it's a Callie reveal, Callie Lottie stuff inside of this episode in terms of like your mother, you're just like your mother, or...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Or she's jealous of you so she can't raise you properly or all this sort of stuff like that. This mothers and daughters piece, this sort of, like, Shauna, you know, just firmly ensconced in middle age, thinking about the power of her teenage self, grappling with Callie, who is the age, you know, that she was at this time. I think that, in terms of the cycle of...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Maybe anyone's life, but let's say because this show is concerned with that specifically a woman's life. I think that more than any sort of supernatural in 25 years we unlock this, that, or the other thing.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
When you are confronted with your mini-me that is Callie, what does that force you to confront about yourself and who you were and how far you've come from who you were sort of thing?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. I agree with that. And I think also like... Because we definitely talked about this. I was trying to remember. I think we talked about it on and off quite a bit in season two. But I think one of the times we talked about it most was like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
when everybody started, you know, Nat, Lottie, everybody started to talk about this, like what they brought back with them and how like so many other things in the show, there could be multiple interpretations. It's this thing you carry inside with you that has awakened or is it literally, so is there some sort of like supernatural explanation, the kind of eternal question of yellow jackets?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think that this like, I think it is, like so many other things in the show, possible that something about the magic of this place was in wait. To me, it's not impossible, but it's not my interpretation of it and my read of what happened in the show. I think what you said is, and also just like... You know, time more broadly sparking this instead of magic. Society sparking it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Again, this idea of kind of shared memory and awakenings. Like, what triggers sparked this thing? I mean, they all received postcards with...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
a the symbol because Jeff sent them you know to get that symbol like mailed to your door and have that awaken something inside of you or Ty sending Jessica Roberts to grill them just putting them on their guard oh wait what would somebody be trying to like unearth of course it would be what we did out there what do you mean Mallory uh this is all Shauna's doing Shauna did all of this Ty definitely didn't run for a highly public office
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That's scrummy. Thanks for asking. Here's what I would recommend. Yeah. Follow the pod. Okay. Follow House of R. Follow the Ringerverse. Follow any Ringer pod that you're interested in on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's the thing. If you are... on your 10th Yellow Jackets episode of the season, you know this, but if you're like, oh my God, you guys are covering Last of Us?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Oh, Shauna's fault. Even just, like, you know, thinking about one of our favorite moments from season one when they strut into the high school reunion alley, trauma bond. A lot of talk of trauma in this episode. Alley is always on my mind. Trauma bond. The video montage, like, all the photo collages, everybody waiting to say at the high school reunion, like, remember the thing you went through.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
There were so many triggers all around them for this to be brought back to the fore. So that feels more...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
in the mix to me than some sort of like actual the magic works this way explanation but in yellow jackets i i'm i'm always open so that sometimes it's interesting for like naturally occurring psychological phenomena to be sort of literalized as supernatural phenomena you know what i mean in a show like this so to your point
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah, I also think about the way in which nostalgia works because, you know, when people talk about the current trend of, like, 90s nostalgia, and I think about the fact that when I was, like, a teenager in the 90s, that there was, like, 60s nostalgia. So it works on this sort of, like, 30 to 25-year cycle of nostalgia. So that's something I think about as well.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I'm really loving the 90s nostalgia right now in terms of jeans, just particularly jeans.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The wide-leg jean is a really good look on you. The wide-leg jean plus the various Carhartts and jackets. Your Nick Nelson era is really working out for you.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I love it. So many sneakers and jackets, you know. I did send you some Nick Nelson jackets. Carhartt Instagram content recently. And I thank you for it. Okay.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Our listener Polly wrote in to say, to sort of summarize some of the behind-the-scenes drama, because as you and Jodi talked about, you know, after Lauren Ambrose's some exit interview stuff, some Tawny Cypress stuff, Obviously, Simone Kessel has had some things to say, et cetera, et cetera.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Melody Linsky has been, like, bizarrely messy on her socials recently, while also saying, and I really hope we get a fourth season and, like, you know, at the same time. So Hilary Swank said that nothing was written for her two weeks before filming started. There was nothing written for her adult Melissa.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Evans Johnson, an actress whom a lot of people presume would be playing adult Akilah, though that was never announced. Evans Johnson just said on her Instagram, on her socials, that she was going to be in Yellow Jackets and then never showed up. So was she cast as adult Akilah or just random waitress number five who was cut out of the show? We have no way of knowing. But Akilah... Question mark.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The way Akilah ends this season is very bizarre, not in a fun cliffhanger way, but it just sort of we kind of forgot to, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Like either cliffhang that or conclude it in some way or another. Pair that with the information we had about Jason Ritter's episode being cut from last season. Yeah. Polly's just asking, is Yellow Jackets the messiest behind the scenes show?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Do you think, Molly, what do you think? Is Yellow Jackets the messiest behind the scenes show?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I have no idea. I mean, obviously a lot of productions are riddled with hot gas and tea spilling and people having different opinions on how things should go and then saying certain things either in overt, direct fashion in the press or in very thinly veiled and not so expertly coded fashion on their various social media platforms, which is also a tradition I love in sports.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
What's up with that? Video this time. Season one, no video, but now you can listen to or watch every episode of House of R and Midnight Boys Pew Pew on Spotify or the Ringerverse YouTube channel. So follow along, subscribe while you're at it. Yeah. Follow the Ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. Sure, sure. We've got breakouts from all of the pods.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay, this quarterback unfollowed his own team. Let's get ready to cover a trade. You know, that's like a great tradition on the internet. Wait, pause. Do you have an Amy Lou Wood, Walton Goggins take? Oh, I've been, I gotta say, only out of, only out of respect for your vacation did I not send you 800 text messages about this last week.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But yeah, so is it the messiest you can say? But does it seem like it's a vibrant and always interesting?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
place to work it does it does what do you think yeah I mean to your point like we're in the era of like Jason Isaacs being like it was on I'm coming back to White Lotus Jason Isaacs being like people didn't like each other it was messy blah blah and then later being like it's none of your business and I was just like Jason Isaacs you opened this can of worms what are you doing
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So White Lotus is certainly quite messy. But like the thing about White Lotus is the behind the scenes mess doesn't really seem to impact as far as we can tell the storytelling. And that doesn't seem to be the case on this show. It's just like characters come and go in a way that feels more personal than creative.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And that's hard for us to sort of navigate sometimes because we want to say like, oh, it matters. You know, they'll give an interview and they'll say like, it matters that Van dies because... wanted to have that one character who X, Y, Z, and her death symbolizes this. And I'm like, I do not think that is true.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think this actress was no longer fitting for you on this show, and that is why Van died. That's why we had this, like, very abrupt exit for this character and that sort of stuff.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Also, if it's, like, so important for one character to have that line and maintain it, wouldn't that be more powerful? Keep them alive?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Last but not least, we don't need to address this, but a listener, Sergio, said the Yellowjacket season three finale felt like a pseudo-series finale to me. And noted that as of this email, season four has not yet been greenlit. I don't feel like this felt like a series finale at all. Me neither. I would feel tremendously unsatisfied if...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
If this were the end of Yellow Jackets, then I just don't think it will be. So with love and respect to you, Sergio, I think we're fine.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think the only thing that I would move forward feeling a sense of peace that I knew, but not like active rage that I didn't get to continue forward, really specifically with Nat, just because we were so actively in mourning in the present timeline still and miss her character in the show. Knowing that Nat did this amazing thing.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And knowing, like, what that means also for Nat and Misty's history together, I feel like we have moved forward in a really meaningful way with that part of the story. I think literally everything else I would be like, until I left this mortal coil and sat in the middle row of the... Very large airplane with a younger version of myself and then said a pretty clunky thing about it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You know, I would wonder, how actually did the rescue unfold? Did people continue to try to stop it? How many more people died and were eaten? What was it like? The thing that I'm really like, I really want to know what it is like for these people when they get back.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
for us to have been teased by the plane and the return in season two, I will, I will think I will be very, very salty if we don't get to spend time with, with the, with the young version of the characters back in Jersey after the return.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And that is, and that was always their plan was to do at least a season back and And when we get lines in this episode or in the previous episode of adult Melissa saying, like, when we got back, I was no longer one of you. Or, you know, like, what did it mean? Why did adult Melissa, like, fake her own death, et cetera, et cetera?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So the question is, I guess, if there's only one more season, if they just do a fourth and final season, do they get rescued in the premiere? You know, does it happen immediately? And then the rest of the season is then back? Or... You know, we've got a lot of other bodies there that don't make it back.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Who knows what other memes and goodies await. Jomie's doing a little Mission Impossible Monday series to get hyped for that film because summer blockbuster season is just around the corner.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
They're filling in the pit. I had a moment where I was like, they're filling in the pit. Guess we're leaving soon. And then I was like, wait, you wouldn't use that. People would just not run that way.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You've got to come up with other ways to murder each other.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
In theory, Mari knew where the pit was too. And lo and behold. Tough lesson.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
At the end of the day, Mari kind of doing a couple stupid things at the end while also having worked her way fully into our hearts. That's really, that's what felt right. All of that being there in the brew. In the brew. All right, let's go to our deep dive.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
All right, so as we often do, we're going to go in sort of timeline chunks. We've got the then, the now, and something in between that we'll talk about in the middle. The center of the sandwich. I do want to mention, you had dropped that incredible line when you were talking to Jodi about the last episode about sitting in the middle of the middle aisle of the middle row in the middle of it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And I was like, God, if I have to get on a plane in the afterlife... I mean, cinematically, of course, that's where you want to sit. And also what I loved about that plane moment, actually, is that in terms of nostalgia... Yeah. When we all used to watch one movie on the plane, there was just one movie projected on a screen at the front of the plane.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I was like, that's that's I have a really fond memory of watching Moonstruck on a plane with like the whole plane was watching Moonstruck.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. But a middle seat on the way to eternity. What a fucking nightmare.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. Where are you sitting? I've always been a window seat enthusiast, controversially in my family, a family of aisle seat enthusiasts. But I always worry that I'm going to get a big boop on the elbow or foot from the passing drink cart. So I don't like the aisle for that reason. Also, too many people passing me and breathing on me.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's winter for the Yellow Jackets, but here comes summer for us.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So every now and then I'll dabble with the aisle and I'm like, no, I got to make my way back to the window. That's my preferred spot.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
How about you? Um, so flying to New York and back. So on the, on the way out, I picked them. I do often pick a window seat though. Those are better for shorter flights. Cause I, I think I've mentioned this before. I physically just conk out on planes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So it is nice for me to just be like tucked into a window seat and then just sort of like pass out. And then nobody like,
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
has to talk to me or bother me or anything like that i'm just like not there um so that's fine but on the way out to new york i like really had to go to the bathroom and i just like didn't want to like bother anyone and so i just didn't um that's a long flight dude not the whole time but just like i would say like the last like 45 minutes or whatever i was just like it's fine you could just like yeah maintain it whatever um
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's warming up here. And while you're out of your computer, your phone is in your hand, yeah, send us an email. The inbox is always open, and it's always the same inbox. No matter what we're covering, no matter what season it is, no matter how much snow is on the ground, it's hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. You've sent us some wonderful Yellow Jackets emails. Thank you for that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Um, so on the way back, I was like, Oh, I think I'll do aisle on the way back. Um, you know, and so, and, and so I did aisle and this like absolutely like stunningly beautiful, wonderful woman sitting next to me. Kept bothering you to go to the bathroom. Nine times to go to the bathroom. And I was just sort of like, okay.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Two great options on a flight, but, um, Here's me, like, half passed out for most of the flight. And she was... Sorry, I'm almost done talking about this. But she was wearing, like... That's great. She had, like, socks that she had put on especially for the flight or whatever.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like a comfortable sock to keep warm or, like, a compression sock?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
A sock that had, like, airline... It was, like, you know... some airline provided sock at some point in her life. We're going into the airplane bathroom in our socks. No, no, no, no. She had sneakers that she could slip in and off. And so she was like, she, she took her sneakers off, put her airline socks on. I was trying not to stare at her, but like a lot was going on. Okay.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So like she did all of this. And then every time she got up to go to the bathroom, it was a ritual of her getting the shoes out, putting the shoes on. So it became this thing, like, she didn't talk to me. I just, like, would see the shoes would come out and I'd be like, time to get up again for the ninth time. But, like, anyway, okay. Sounds honestly horrible.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So here's where I think the best place to be is, actually. I think I'm correct. Yeah. If you can't afford in the afterlife to fly first class. I think, and hopefully you can, all things should be equal in the afterlife air travel. I think you should try to go for the front row of first class window. Because then your window... Yeah, bro.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Because in your window, but there's enough room there that you can, like, get up and go to the bathroom without bothering anyone because there's, like, a whole bunch of extra room at the front row.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
This has been an extremely relatable conversation. All right, so...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I mean, if you're watching Yellow Jackets, you know, through the end of the third season, this probably is on your mind. How do you sit on the plane to the afterlife?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Where do you sit on the plane to the afterlife? Okay, so opening sequence featuring Shauna's regime, we're on bed checks. And to your point, I had thought when I first watched it, I was like, I thought a lot of time had passed. Same. And then I realized about the snow and for sure Cody's head is still here. Yeah, because I was just sort of like, how far into Shauna's regime are we?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
How long has Hannah been a Shauna toady? How much has Nat's hair continued to grow out? You know, like all this sort of stuff. My most reliable benchmark are the Nat roots.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah, and I see the world often through your eyes in that respect. And the hair is styled when Nat is pulled out of her hut very differently. Yeah, and the way it's pulled back is just differently than the Rambo headband from the intercut in that moment conversation with Misty about the transponder. Kind of odd, but So it goes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So we've got the Misty and Nat confrontation over the transponder, the conspiratorial looks with Van, so our earliest indication that, like, this is a trio of conspirers are the gadget girls, right? These three. And then... I love that. Just came to me. Uh... Is your interpretation that Cody's head is being used as target practice for Team Crossbow?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Keep all of the Last of Us emails coming. Make sure you get Joanna your recipes, your mushroom recipes. She will feature. I will. At least one every week. I will. And if there are a lot of great ones to choose from, maybe more than one, send us your and or emails. We are mere moments away from Thunderbolts. Start getting the Thunderbolts emails in. Send them all. Send them all.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I guess I'm relieved that Joel McHale is still on the show in some way after his incredibly brief run. Nice to see him there. Yeah, you know, some... I mean, some well-placed crossbow... crossbow... crossbow bolts. Crossbow bolts.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's 45 minutes in. We're doing fine. Okay, so listen... Lottie's dreaming. All of this is scored to an original song that was composed for the show.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Let's talk about the needle drop section. Very ethereal, scary stuff. Lottie's having this dream of the Antler Queen, and I love this because not only there's this cool backlit imagery of the Antler Queen, but this indication that... We've talked about this before. This indication that Lottie sees herself as a puppet master of... Whoever the Antler Queen is, it does matter.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's not like it doesn't matter. Because Nat's regime is very different from Shauna's regime, right? So it definitely matters in terms of quality of life in camp, etc. But in terms of, like, who is the power behind... Because there's, like... Lottie goes out and, like, does...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I don't know how much the camera is catching me if it catches these movements, but like doing yearning tendril hands, jazz hands, right? And so is the antler queen. So it's this indication that like where Lottie moves, the antler queen moves. And there are moments inside of this episode, like when Lottie's like, we got to have a hunt.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And Shauna, like, initially looks like, I don't really want to do that. And then she's like, yeah, okay, we'll do a hunt. You know what I mean? It's just sort of like, Shauna's being driven by Lottie in a way that is surprising given how aggressively controlling Shauna is elsewhere, you know?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah, and I really like, I really liked this Lottie, Antler Queen, kind of heightened visual stretch of the opening. I think that this, like, idea of...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You know, the way that the branches are growing out of the fingers and, like, different parts of the body, like, you know, to think later, to think about what later, like, we hear Lottie and Callie talk about with, like, the way it looked like looking down into the earth when you looked into Shauna's eyes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like, this idea of something tangible in Lottie's mind, like, almost more taking the form of, like, space. spirit god than just concept. Something older than memory and this place. I think the way that that manifested was really cool and interesting. And I think the mirroring that you're identifying and the puppeteering is spot on. And then to think about what that means, that Lottie's role is
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
prophet. Lottie's role is evangelizer. Lottie's role is spreading the gospel and trying to compel people. We talked about a few weeks ago, okay, when Shauna is almost trying to force into and then out of her mouth these words of belief that she does not actually abide by and adhere to, to see the way that Shauna, I think, rightly clocks that
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Send them all. Oh, we just got our screening notification for Thunderbolts. I'm so excited for Thunderbolts. Okay, so listen. You going to come back to LA? Maybe. For your most anticipated movie of the year? Maybe. Okay. Yeah, I'm not in LA anymore. To that end, a couple things. Number one, if you watch our The Last of Us episode, you can see Mallory rocking an incredible jacket.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The idea of even though we'll hear her say in the present timeline and in the episode, like, you know, I was a fucking queen and she's now seeking that again. I think in young Shauna's eyes there in that moment, what we what we what she recognizes in Lottie and the circumstances around them, it will re-recognize in her is like the crown is not as powerful as the idea.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And Lottie is the one perpetrating the idea. And so, like, that is, I think, an interesting power dynamic, even though Lottie is not actually adorned in the Antler Queens. Though, when we're getting those quick flashes and we are seeing young Lottie, like, in black and white multiple times, we get that, like, very kind of crazy.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
There's the one creepy as we go to the morgue corpse, multi-timeline, young adult mashup of Lottie's face over the body with the symbol overlaid on top of it. But before that, we get a couple very quick shots, like you've got to really freeze frame it to see them, of young Lottie
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
the antler behind her which we've seen as we've tracked across the seasons many characters in the cabin framed in that way so this idea that this is always kind of in Lottie's mind like the whole Lottie stretch of this episode was very just like True detective time is a flat circle to me.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
What has happened when that inspires some sort of decision or behavior to not only connect adult Lottie and teen Lottie from the wilderness, but younger Lottie, child Lottie, which has happened before, obviously, with us learning about the with the car accident. The prophecies and the visions felt appropriate.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I thought it was really interesting when you and Jodi were talking about your reaction to Travis's gambit with the pit last week, his, his manipulation of Lottie's belief. Um, And Akilah, similarly, we're about to talk about Akilah, but Akilah sort of using her vision and what Lottie knows of her vision to enact this con job here inside of this episode.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So this, like, extremely cynical abuse of belief. But how... This idea of fear pushes a lot of these people into their belief of the it, of the wilderness, and how that can just be used to control them, and how Lottie, for all of her genuine belief, does never shise away from using this as a method of control and a method of power. Right.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The idea of this show, the bare bones of this show, is taking... Character archetypes or personality types, Enneagram numbers if you prefer to be in a white lotus space still. Always. And examining... what gives you power? How do you cling to power for, for high school girls, especially there is this like anxiety around, do I have any power inside of the situation? How can I cozy up to power?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
How can I shelter underneath power? How can I grab some of it for myself? Does it come from my physical beauty? Does it come from the way in which I am like attractive to men? Does it come from my intelligence? Does it come from my ability to intimidate other women? Like what, you know, what is it? A lot of, a lot of times access to that power comes in like
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
insidious channels and so inside of this space it's like even more ancient ideas of like religion and spirituality and belief as a method of control violence as a method of control physical dominance as a method of control all of that is really interesting to me Yeah. Akilah, what is the wilderness version of an Academy Award? Because my... My God. God, this performance.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So here's... So we already mentioned the Gadget Girl Alliance, which is Van and Misty and Nat, right? And then we have... So... I'm going to break down where I think the alliances are and you tell me if you agree or disagree. So that's one. That's team Van Misty and Nat is we're working in secret on these on the gadgetry. And that is we're taking any opportunity we can to get that done.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You know... Jodi wanted to be here. She was desperate for someone to talk to, but you were busy eating your ex-girlfriend's arm.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Then we've got what I'm calling, even though they're not all on the JV team, JV team uprising, team JV team uprising. And it is Jen and Melissa and Mari and Akilah, as we get from via flashback. Yes. Using, wanting to, you know, trigger a hunt in order to take out Shauna. Mm-hmm. Possibly also Lottie. Lottie, yeah. Because Melissa's job is to take out Shauna during the hunt.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's a wax trucker. Is that right? Do I have your... Yes, I have Joel's jacket.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And it seems like Akilah is going for Lottie. Is going for Lottie. So this is team, what they call team crazy, right? Yeah. Shauna and Lottie. Team crazy.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Am I speaking your lingo? Okay, great. For a few minutes before I got really overheated and had to take it off.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Team stay. Team remain. Well, my question then is what Jen, the gambit Jen runs with Ty, because Ty is also team stay, where she's like, Van, sprain an ankle, come. And then Jen has that, I thought, very touching moment where she's like, Mari's my friend. I'm just trying to help her. Yeah. Is that, I think that is true. Mari's her friend and she's trying to help her.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Is she, was her task to take out Ty? I thought her task was to.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
If Mel's taking out Shauna and Akilah's taking out Lottie? I thought her task was to isolate Shauna. Yeah. And I think what's complicates all of these Alliance is the core, always complicated Alliance of tie and van, which is, is its own thing. And you and Jody talked about this plenty, its own thing inside of, even when they're on opposite sides of there is the tie van Alliance.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Um, and then the, the other, uh, sort of question mark is Travis. Travis says, seems to be on team JV uprising based on his weird mushroom man performance as the hunt kicks off.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Um, also on this sort of like pod video pod front, I just want to say for the Yellow Jackets fans, for the fans of the nineties, uh, the rewatchables this week is Bill Simmons and yours truly covering an absolutely icon of nineties cinema. Can't hardly wait. So.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It seems like he's really trying to like buy Mari time, uh, as he like delays them, but, uh, or that could just be him, you know, going independent or him, you know, sinking deeper back into the mushroom tea because he failed to kill Lottie, uh, last week or something like that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah, the Travis one is, I think, the most fun to debate and feels the most open to interpretation. Obviously, he tried to... tried in frankly shocking fashion to kill Lottie, even though he failed. He didn't really go for it. And he and Akilah have been forging a closeness and an honesty across the season.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So the idea that he would be continuing to try to eliminate Team Stay and working with Akilah actively to do it makes total sense to me. What he said to Shauna was, I thought, one of the more enticing moments Is there actually something going on here? Well, similarly. We've talked so often about these shared dreams and visions. That was basically what he was describing.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Could he not have made up any of that stuff? He's like, what do teen girls think? Sleepovers?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Jealousy? Let me mention my brother and the person who haunts your every step. Like, it could be any of it. So that was, I thought, really, really fun. Also, of course, on Team JV, like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Oh, yeah, we're in cahoots. I know what I should say now. And then, boom.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So Missy and Van seem wholly not involved in the Team JV plan because they're shocked when they hear Akilah screaming, right? Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
nana has some questions i don't think she's in on it and i think when she's just sort of like well i'll just leave then yeah um that was just her like so i could go work on the transponder more um i think so yeah i won't i just won't be up i won't be a party to this yeah and then shauna's just like uh but you gotta be thank you so much by the way for you and jody spending so much time on one of the most aggravating things to have happened on any show ever which is shauna just getting the gun
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then they're all just like rolling over. I couldn't believe it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I mean, the fact that you didn't get to go off on that and or talk about Walter arriving via helicopter, genuinely tragic stuff. Genuinely tragic stuff.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
lauren ambrose fans if you're missing if you're missing van on yellow jackets you can go see her make her sort of like big debut splash into pop culture on can't hardly wait uh our coverage of that also i wanted to ask you mallory been on the on the sort of video pod front because yeah i'm back in uh the bay area you are in in your cozily ensconced in your home uh office but what was it like being in the void your first time in the void how did it feel
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The other thing, last week's episode of Daredevil, that felt rude and personal, honestly.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I know, as I said, the fact that I was out of town for the Frank episode and you were out of town for the Dex episode is the universe conspiring against us in a way that I frankly don't appreciate. But as always, we do appreciate all of our pals who stepped in for both of us in those times. Oh, hugely. The, like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
In terms of a through line, you know, memory remembering, we're going to keep talking about. We've talked about it already. This was kind of another one, though. Like, self-fulfilling prophecies, right? Akilah sees a vision and then, like, brings it about. Lottie sees her vision back during her season one Laura Lee baptism and works hard.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The tape for Lottie is like a piece of cheese in a maze to lure Callie to her, right? Like these characters are actively seeking to cultivate something that they have seen before. And that is just like, that is fascinating. I like that the show is playing with that idea.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. So then it's like, it perpetuates the mythology. It's just sort of like, okay. So yeah, Akilah manipulating Lottie. Taking this dream she had and making it reality in order to trigger the hunt, in order to try to take out Shauna. A true animal lover would never do this. Wow. Akilah has fallen so quickly. You don't know what you would do in the wilderness, Mallory. I would never.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Wow. I'd probably fail and die in my pursuit. You're so fucking pure in the wilderness. I wouldn't need a friend. I wouldn't harm an animal. I would survive on twigs and berries and waste away during the first winter.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I was like, finally some fucking honesty around here. Jesus Christ. Okay. So as you and Jodi mentioned last week, Vanna's been practicing her shuffle, and this has some really...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
staggering implications for and i thought really well done live you mentioned young van being um your favorite character and and i mean obviously i'm team walter but also like van young man my favorite character other than jeff walter randy hi kevin cody all the men all the men
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But young Van and young Nat are really captivating to me. And a lot of that has to do with Liv Hewson is so good. Sophie Thatcher is so good. Yeah. But to your point of connecting the dots between young Van and older Van, this moment for young Van where she is essentially the one who accidentally, because Shauna's paranoia, honestly, it's...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's tough to call it paranoia because, honestly, it's like 80% of the time she is right. You know what I mean? Yeah. But Shauna's decision to move inside of the circle is what puts the drop on Mari. But it is Van's manipulation of the deck that gets it there. And later we get this moment with Liv... Their performance of young Van being like, it's Mari, you know what I mean?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like that was just like, so how we find Van broken in the present timeline based on this thing that she did that no one else did this particular thing. Yes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I thought this was great, all of this. I loved the conversation between Ty and Van about whether to do this. We talk so much in this show about how you justify the things you do to yourself and the way that Ty ultimately does compel Van. Because Van's like, our friends, our teammates, you want me to choose who dies? Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And Ty's argument is basically like, it reminded me of how we talk about Last of Us. It's like, it's us or them. Yes. Who's an us? Who's the us? Yeah. Right? Hannah's a new. Yeah. You do anything to protect the person you care most about. In theory, that's a good thing. In theory, that's a coming from a pure place thing. I love you. I want you to be okay.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And literally no matter what, but then what does that mean for the world that you're building and the world that you live in? And then the way you need to navigate it. I thought this was like really great. And then obviously like Shauna, I'm with you.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Thanks for asking. I'm still processing the experience. Did it alter your thoughts and feelings about me spending like 85% of my time in LA inside of the void?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I, like, I started writing, like, paranoia in my notes and then I switched it to, like, heightened suspicion because, like, she's... Her instincts are very good.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. And I thought that the way she clocked right away that something was up with the cutting, the final cut of the card right before, like, okay, yeah, we can do this. Um... This was... Many things about the hunt and Pit Girl finally... All of it just finally being cemented. Fantastic. This was, like, spine-tingling. When Shauna moves... And first of all, you realize what she's doing and why.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's like, I'll prove a point. I'm in control, not you. It gets back to what you were saying about control. But also, like... She's not doesn't for a second believe, again, it chooses she's going to choose or she's at least not going to let somebody else choose.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like the gall that they would try to. Yeah. To be the ones to make the decision. And also because it's a threat. What does it mean? Who's up to what? How are they trying to harm me? What don't I know? And the moment where you kind of the camera pans and you realize that we're if we're Who's one away from Hannah? Oh my God, it's going to be Mari now.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then the delicious aspect of, even though I was in a state of active grief, Mari and Shauna fucking ate each other.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It really was. Horrible. Okay, so she's wearing... Before we got to that, we wake up, there's snow everywhere. Shauna's wearing Jackie's butterfly shirt, which she often does, but I do think it's always worth tracking when Shauna's wearing Jackie's butterfly shirt. They're all wearing each other's clothing, but this one particular item is like, only Shauna wears Jackie's butterfly shirt. Right.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Shana bitchily, which is how she says everything these days, says to Ty, like, how did you even get into AP stats or whatever? We got this hilarious email from our listener, Jackson. Um, the title of the email was did Sean and take AP stats. And then Jackson goes, uh, goes on to say, uh, the odds do change in, in a group of four.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So I will say I actually kind of liked it in there. As you know, I like the way the void, I don't like the way I look on it. any of our videos, but I like the way other people look in the void on our videos. I think it's a cool visual effect. I liked sitting in there. As you know, I do not like when at the office, in the studio, having to put on those headphones for an entire podcast and do a
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
He counted 14 people in the circle in a group of 14 and a deck of 52, uh, If it's equal numbers round and round, the odds don't change. But given that it's not, the odds do change depending on where you are in that circle and where we start. So he's like, fuck your AP stats, burn Shauna, actually.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then also, one of my favorite memes that has been going around from this episode is when Shauna's like, who was the, like, what was your plan or whatever? And everyone's like, Shauna, can you count to one? Like... Hannah was right next to Mari. What did you think? And then like, so that was one of the things like can't even count to one, Shauna.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Listen, you got to do what you got to do here in this world. Jodi did an incredible job filling in for me last week on House of R, as did Ben Lindbergh and Daniel Jin. But I'm back. Yeah. And it is me. It is Mallory. Till the end of the world. We are here today to talk to you about Yellow Jackets, season three, episode 10, the finale. So that is, that is, we're here to wrap up Yellow Jackets.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then later when like various people are missing, like Nat's missing and Travis is missing. It's like, it makes sense. Shauna can't count to one. So she can't count how many people are missing from the final feast, et cetera. So yeah. Great stuff. Mari draws the queen. As you mentioned, Shauna, real tough, you know, person about it. Gracious always, yeah. Travis does this mushroom man moment.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The girls put their sort of, I'm calling it regalia on. And then Shauna has this demonic baseball cap mask, which is so sick and even sicker when- I read this on the subreddit. Someone was like, that's Javi's baseball hat. And I was like, well, I need to go find out for myself. So I went back and looked. It's just their high school baseball cap.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We do see their coach, as in dyed-in-the-tree coach, has that hat on. So it might be that Javi's wearing his dad's hat. Or it might be that they all have that hat because it might just be like one piece of uniform that they all have or whatever. But it's not one that we've seen a lot. And we have seen his dad wear it. We've seen Javi wear it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And now we see that Shauna has turned it or someone has turned it into a mask with the, it looks very like Jack Skellington with the like the sort of jack-o'-lantern eyes. And then the script on the front of the ball cap, when she pulls it down, becomes this sort of like grin. And then the horns are fine. Some of my favorite arts and crafts. And there's a lot of great arts and crafts going on.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But this is like top tier for me is the baseball hat mask.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Really disturbing. It's obviously like... upsetting to see them cloak themselves in animal furs and perform a cannibalistic ritual where they hunt a friend and teammate all of that stuff however this was like this this the hat did that thing that we love to talk about in yellow jackets where like you take something that was like a symbol of the the old world the
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
four times yeah the team like unity team spirit being proud of this thing that we did together and also just being literally a unit um and cutting creepy eye holes and then running around trying to kill each other using that it's a choice and it's a disturbing one it's a real move i want to know what the day was like when they killed that skunk uh that they used for the uh the skunk
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Head dress one. That's a really good one. Was that a delicious meal? Like the skunk? How did it taste? I don't know. I'm pleased to say that I have no idea what skunk tastes like.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So pure. Okay. So Mari's on the run for her life and it's devastating. She's wearing this brightly colored, Hannah's brightly colored jacket, which we mentioned before. Takes it off very smart, right? Take off the brightly colored jacket. But then she takes everything off. And, like, we know that she had to because in the opening, Pit Girl's running around in a nightie.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So we know we have to get down to the nightie at some point in order for this to match what we saw in Season 1, Episode 1. But, like, when she takes the jacket off, sure. Maybe even the pants. But the shoes, Mari? Like... To your point, Mari makes some poor choices here at the end of her life. But I was like, you keep those fucking shoes in the snow no matter what.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then, like, seriously, then she cuts her foot. And it's like curtains for Mari when she cuts her foot. But, like, oh, my God.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
A split foot. Just a devastating moment. I was glad they had the cover of just, like, she's in such a hurry. She kind of can't. She's trying to get the pant leg off. It seemed like maybe over the shoes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Has to in panics. But, yeah. Is Mari our favorite character in the show after season three? She is. Was it also satisfying to have a reason for somebody at her eulogy to say, Mari was so dumb she chipped a tooth on a vibrator?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like Ty says later, she's going to be her entire self. And sometimes her entire self takes her shoes off in the snow when she's running for her life. All right. So we already mentioned some of like Shauna's instincts, which we can no longer call paranoia because she's right about certain things. Something's weird. Stay close, she says to Ty.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So there was some stuff for me to get used to. Uh, but overall, how did you feel? It was an illuminating experience and, and one I'll carry with me.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
She knows that Jen's lying when Jen shows up and says that Van's hurt. And we get this... The confrontation between Nat and Hannah... This is just the best version of something's afoot, but we don't see it. We see this confrontation. We see Hannah defend her actions with Cody. I wasn't sure I believed her. I wasn't at all sure that she was telling the truth.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It just felt like something she could have been saying in that moment. And when Hannah shows up as Shauna's lieutenant... Uh, during like the bed check sequence and stuff like that, I was like, oh my God, are we going to spend a long time watching Hannah like fall into this, that, or the other thing?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And so it was like a sort of a surprisingly quick, like JK, I was just doing what I could to survive. Sorry. Uh, moment. But I, I, I love so much about this. The fact that like, We had inside of this season, Shauna teaching Nat how to dress a human. And so then we got this payoff of the season one, episode one, the person in the pink dress.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
a plastic raincoat is the one who is doing the butchering and we think that's nat but actually it's fucking hannah tough beat for hannah's first undercover mission is like she has to butcher mari um i guess she's done a lot of animal dissecting over the years her work as a scientist i would not be able to i personally would not have been able to stab cody through the eye that quickly but certainly wouldn't have been able to do this just
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. Um, hopefully everyone was like dying to tune in to hear studio chat, but like, yeah. How did it feel? Ben went to the office. I know.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Just out of the wilderness polishing your halo better than everyone else around you.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You guys are just like chowing down on mal meat. I'm like, I don't have to make any of these choices. I'm dead. My integrity remained intact. I don't think I could eat you, honestly. I would want to nourish you. Thank you for saying that, but I would want to nourish you if it came down to it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay. You all heard it first. This is a legally binding contract. Mal said that she wants me to eat her. Okay. Take me into the cave. What do we see with Lottie? What is your interpretation? What's going on here?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So... Akilah arrives at the mouth of the cave and seeks her out. Knew she would be there. Reasonable. I like the idea that Lottie is simultaneously like, I won't let anybody seek shelter in this cave system. This is the goal line I'm defending. And also, I'm here to pray, right? Because she is... whispering to the wilderness, like, I can hear it. I'm not afraid.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I saw that. It's just shocking stuff. It was amazing. I saw it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Whatever you need, I will give you freely with every breath till my breath finally stops. This, like, recurring refrain for Lottie. And then for Akilah to say... Like you made me believe that I could see things and none of that was real. And Travis told me the truth. And then Lottie saying, no, but you did see things like it can be real.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Um, Okay. So we've been in like studios, like similar studios over there, but like there's something about the void when they close the door and it's just like.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I was really, I thought the parallel between this Akilah Lottie confrontation and the Travis Lottie confrontation around the pit from last episode was really palpable. Like Lottie, uh, was not part of the Team JV. We've hatched a plan to forge a... to spark a hunt so that we can eliminate the people who are standing in our way. But Lottie's happy that the hunt is happening.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
She means it when she says we haven't offered ourselves. That's not a pure sacrifice. It's like, this is the nature of sacrifice. And, like, what felt... what felt true to me with the pit...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
sequence last episode and what felt really true here is that Lottie is trusting that the wilderness will either protect her in the face of this imminent threat or choose her and she'd be fine with that too just like at the sunshine honey sequence at the end of season two in the present day she's like I'll take the poison alcohol like the part of Lottie is courting that she would be honored to be the chosen one
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Super ready to die Lottie Matthews. Chosen either way, right? Chosen as the sacrifice or chosen as the one who has been shielded and allowed to go on preaching.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Lottie says, Akilah grabs the rock, goes after Lottie. Lottie is pleading, imploring the wilderness for a connection, which we've seen her do before. She says, just like actively huffing those vapors. It says, this place is in us now. Even if we go home, it will come with us. Which is sort of, we've heard this idea before, right?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
shauna a bit like we could never go home again all of that sort of stuff but i brought it back with us yeah but i like this idea of it as like an infection almost it's got its little tendrils its little interview with the vampire spindly roots inside of in spite of them you know all that sort of stuff and then we never see akila again and in a way what do you think knocked out by the gas or lottie killed her or they haven't decided so we don't know
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. The door is very heavy and then you're all alone and there's bright interrogation lights on you. Anyway. Okay. So glad Mari got in the pit and Mallory got in the void. And that is what we are here to talk to you about.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
decided so we don't know is what it feels like and that's oh it's satisfying to me but like if it's like what there's a way in which you can shoot that where I come out of it going oh my god we don't know what happened to Akilah right I can't wait for season four to find out if Lottie killed her in the cave or if um she passed out if they're gonna get you know I had this down for batshit theory corner but like we had talked about this before this idea like Akilah passed out in the cave and
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
and everyone gets rescued because she had that vision of just like her in the camp. So she comes back to camp and they're all rescued. And, you know, and Lottie's like, oops, I don't know what happened to Crystal. I mean, Akilah, you know what I mean? Like it's, uh, it's, uh, that's me making a commentary on the show and, uh, it's treatment of it's black characters.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Sometimes not my confusing two black characters on the show. And I will say that, like, I am once again, uh, let down, I think, by the show's inability, especially to pay off the Ty-Aquila connection. Do you get this moment? It's Ty who rushes to Akilah and we get a shot of them holding hands as Akilah is mourning the animals. I don't know. I feel like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I feel like I would like the show to do better. And I really hope this is not the last we see of Akilah. A character who I think has, I think especially in season two, season three was a little hit or miss for me, but season two really caught my attention, my interest. And I don't think they've fully explored her as a character.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And I would really be disappointed if this is the end of her character.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I strongly agree. And I think in terms of season three specifically, So many of the characters, whether it's Shauna saying, I was a fucking queen, I want to be that again, or Lottie saying, I want to commune with the wilderness.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Did I remind you of season two when Misty and Shauna prepped for the interrogation?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
A character like Akilah saying, and Travis had his version of this, it's not the first time, but it's a very rich text with Akilah, actually, I don't want you to tell me I'm special. Stop trying to make me think that something unique is happening with me. We're all out here trying to survive, and I want to go home. To rebel against the idea that you have been chosen in some ways, I think is
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That feels to me like the show doing what they're kind of saying they were doing with Van in the present, like actually having a character say, wait, this is not like the way that we should behave or the choice that we should make. So I really like that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then I think also, you know, Akilah having to like sacrifice something that she cares about genuinely with the animals and like do this horrible thing. You know, we've talked about it with Misty and the transponder. We talked about it with Lottie and Edwin, no, Hedwin. Like, At the end of the day, the reason might have been noble. The intention might have been noble.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It would make all the difference. Guys, it's something to keep in mind for the next time Joe's here.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Let's get rid of the people. Let's create a circumstance that allows us to isolate and get rid of the people who are trying to keep us here so that we can go home. Okay. you did a thing that took away the food supply so that you guys had to hunt and eat each other and now Mari's dead. Like, I want to see Akilah have to process that. Her role in that thing that they did and what happened.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Season four is a lot of other things, but additionally, Akilah has frequent dreams of Mortimer and Mortimer talks to her in her dreams about the end of his life. Mortimer. Melissa attacks Shauna. Again, this seems to be what we were all working towards. Melissa attacks Shauna. The opposite pin position of the present kitchen. Melissa on top, straddling Shauna and choking her out.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Spoiler warning, all of everything ever yellow jackets. Full Circle is the name of the episode written by Amenia Rosa and directed by one of the co-creators of the show, Bart Nickerson. The showrunners, Ashley Lyle, Bart Nickerson, Jonathan Lisko, did a large-ish breakdown with The Hollywood Reporter. So we've got quotes from them sort of like throughout our coverage today. They all are...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And even though we know it's not going to happen, she got pretty close. I was like... Shawna. And I was really rooting for you, Melissa. And it was too bad that she wusses out on it. And Shawna goes, I knew you'd turn out to be boring. I mean, Shawna's ritual humiliation of Melissa in the last week's episode is its own thing. But I knew you'd turn out to be boring.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Once again, I just find she's really trying to cosplay Jackie in a way that, like, she can't carry those lines the way that Jackie did. It's not natural to her. If Jackie said, I knew you turned out to be boring, we're like, that's kind of fun and bitchy in a Real Housewives kind of way. And when Shauna says it, I'm just like, you're the fucking worst, Shauna.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like, I don't know how to enjoy the delicious bitchery from Shauna the way that I did from Jackie. You know what I mean?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think not to imply that, like, teen cruelty and, you know, the old words, not stones. Like, I... Obviously, just teenagers being cruel to each other and saying hurtful things is genuinely really damaging. However, I think, like, Jackie's... mean girl viciousness.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like at the end of the day, it always felt like posturing and like a lack of care, which is harmful, but almost more like a persona that she was inhabiting. Whereas I think the other thing is with Shauna, when she says something like this, there's such a deep rooted menace behind it that we're like,
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay, yeah, the last bullet that you fired clipped the edge of his sleeve so that Mel pissed herself in front of everyone, and that was painful for everyone to watch, but, like, I would absolutely have believed it if she had just fired the gun right into her heart.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like, that is inside of Shauna, too, in a way that I don't think it was with Jackie, so that's also, I think, how we receive it from them is interesting. Great point. With Mel, this was, like... You're on the verge. You press down for one more second and with one more bit of firmness and you end that person's life. How could that not have been on her mind with Van? Oh, yeah. In the present, right?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's like what she's saying, you know, but I do about like, you know, I want to be that. Did she spend 25 years wondering if she would make a different decision the next time? Like, 100%. 100%.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
All right. I am obsessed. This is my favorite thing that you've said about this episode. This idea that like Lottie is inside of a true detective episode. So Lottie and Mari collide. Yeah. And Lottie in her most Russ Cole is like, you've already been here. You've been here already, Mari. You could let it be different. Is Lottie referring to Mari going in the pit at the beginning of the season?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You've already been inside this literal pit, except there are spikes here this time. I can walk over the top of it, but you are not so chosen, Mari. You can't do that. Yeah. Mari going into the pit in the season one opener as like a meta sort of we've all been here before. Time is a flat circle. Here we are back at pit girl or something else or let what be different? Like what? Yeah. What? Uh.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
What agency does Mari have inside of this moment? Just sort of, like, stand still and let them kill her? Like, what can she let be different this time? Like, what is Lottie implying here? What's your interpretation?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I don't know. That was a little odd to me just because Lottie's whole thing is, like, it chooses. Yeah. So Lottie... And this was really on my mind with Lottie and Callie in terms of, like... this idea of everything being faded and Callie having, from Lottie's perspective, no choice in the matter at all.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The only choice is to say, is to embrace the fact that you were always meant to be here, basically, which, as you know, I find to be a distressing idea, but also something I like when stories play with. So I guess I read it as you can just give in. Stop trying to evade this thing.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
If you've been chosen, you've been chosen, and you're not getting out of the pit to really rapidly and shockingly heal this time. Listen, the fact that Mari was able to run it all is still the single nuttiest thing that this show has done.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
pretty much sourced from this one THR article. So I recommend you read it in full. We love journalism and we support it. So I want to start, actually, before we get into like our usual sort of unreliable narrator, hallucinator, dreamer counter, Nellie Rubin, how'd you feel about this episode of television? And did it impact either positively or negatively your take on the season as a whole?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Mari goes in the pit and you're like, maybe she'll walk it off this time. But then there's like a spike through her literal face and you're like, nope.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. When we get like so many of the shots we get from, you know, from the pilot, the twitching fingers. Yeah. The one that gave me a real like kind of fun little chill was the pink converse, you know, moving to the edge of the pit. You're like, oh my God, all of these moments. Great. But I think we could not see before because it would have revealed the character was, The impaled cheek. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Poor, you know, poor Ty. She's not going to get her whole face eating experience. Some of the best meat.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Swiss cheese. Okay. So we're cutting back and forth between Mari and season one episode footage. It doesn't really match, but it gets like pretty close to matching. Uh, they had a different budget when they did season one, episode one. So the film quality is different and all that sort of stuff like that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But according to this THR interview per the show runners, they said that the back and forth was meant to show viewers the difference between how the adult survivors remember what happened compared to how the horrific event actually played out. Now that is end quote. Now that is a very convenient cover, but,
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
for differences and there are major like if you want to play the highlights magazine spots the difference between this and that there's a lot of different but I really like this theory that I saw on reddit which was that the version that we see in season one episode one which includes all the girls sort of joyously participating in the hunt is Shauna's POV and memory her memory of like we all did this we were all really excited when Mari went in the pit and we all waited together and that's how that worked out
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
All of us howling excitedly. Not like Jen doing one thing. Melissa nearly killing me. Van and Ty only concerned about each other. Van weeping about this. Nat has fucked off to do something with the transponder. Like it was all of us together.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So this is the showrunner saying, like, if this looks a bit different... From what we saw in Season 1, Episode 1. And it's true, because, like, you know, a lot of us, especially the people who love to exist in the theorizing space, have, like, poured over the footage of the assemblage of people around the fire.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And it's just sort of like, if the number count is different, which it is, if the, like, you know, if the general demeanor is different, which it is, like... Like, there are some things that work so well in the new POV, to your point, the misty smile moment. So good. Yeah. Like, that is brilliant. And that seems like a really clever thought.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then some of this other stuff feels a little bit like coverage for landing at a slightly different spot. But that's fine.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay. Yeah. We get a moment of silence for Mari. There's, like, a lot of score and a lot, but, like, when Mari goes in that pit and it's over for Mari, the episode takes a beat and just sort of, like, gives us a moment. I should fucking hope so, given the season three run that Mari had. My God. On this van... this is our fault. It's Mari moment.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Jonathan Lisko says to THR quote, all of these people know they're complicit in the death of a friend. I don't think that's something you shake off lightly pretty much for your whole life. That's going to haunt them forever. And that's something to mine for seasons moving forward. So end quote. So this idea of like, it was Mari.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It wasn't, I mean, Van had that great line, which you pointed out where she was like, we ain't a kid. We ain't a hobby. Yeah. But that was... Javi wasn't Mari. You know, Javi wasn't a teammate. Javi wasn't, like, a girl our age. And this is, like, we... You know, Jackie. Oops. Jackie was an accident. A real oopsie moment. Learn to not fucking fire Jackie and you'd be alive. But...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I enjoyed this finale. I did not particularly enjoy the first 10 minutes, which I found... I would say just slightly tipping to me into needlessly confusing. I think it's fun to try to have to puzzle something out and figure out and theorize on exactly what we're seeing. But when they're first pulling Nat out for the bed check, I'm like, wait...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We chased a person through the woods until they fell into a pit full of spikes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Totally. The Javi one is still the closest to me, not because of Javi, but because it was supposed to be Nat. Yeah. You know, Nat pulled the card. They put the necklace on Nat. They were engaging in the ritual, and they were willing to put one of their teammates and friends in that mortal peril, in theory.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So it was a bridge, much like Ben was, in fact, a bridge, because he smelled great when they were cooking him. Brought the froggers over, and that sat phone allowed Nat to make a call out to the wider world for rescue. Great work, Ben. We appreciate your service now and always. To Nat, Ben was a friend, but it was very different, his death as well.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
This is a leveling up of not only the intentionality, but also then the outcome. Yeah. Yeah, and that's why I'm curious, too, like, how long until rescue? Like, how many more times do they have to do this, if at all?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Jen, are you making it back, Jen? I don't think so. But again, I want to say, well, we've seen the footage of them getting off the plane and we know how many people there are. Maybe a handful of people were in the bathroom.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Which is different. To be clear, you know, and this is where... Like, I know, again, I know we referenced Lost a lot, but I want to give Lost credit because, like, there are many times in which Lost had to zag, like, when the actor who played Walt had a growth spurt and Walt, who was set up to be this, like, chosen one, interesting kid, was just sort of, like, written off the show.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Mr. Echo was set up to be this very important character written off the show. So they had those moments that they zigged and zagged, but there are certain things that they did where they were like, if we establish this, we establish it. If it's Oceanic Six... It's oceanic six people made it off, you know, the island.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Uh, well also Desmond, I guess, but like, you know, like there, there are things that they did where they're just sort of like, we have this target that we said we were going to aim for. We have to stick to that. And I think yellow Jack is just sort of like any number of people could have come off that plane. It could be everyone, uh, you know, still there makes it home. So, uh,
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We're pulling for you, Jen. Now and always a person with absolutely no personality, but could possibly make it through. Who's to say? Shauna orders them to fill the pit. Van makes this move like she's going to go after Shauna, and Ty stops her. Yes. What the hell is Ty's allegiance to Shauna at this point? We've seen them from the beginning. They have this affinity.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
In season two especially, a lot of Ty's praying to the It in moments for Shauna on Shauna's behalf. I... I just don't know. I think this is a failure on the show's part to not give you more Shauna and Ty scenes to help me understand. I understand the Van and Ty allegiance. Obviously it's not just sex.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
These women are like in love and they have shared these moments of camaraderie and all this sort of stuff like that. And so like, why would Ty put herself between Van and Shauna? I'm uncertain of it at this point. What do you think?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So it's a great question. I think, um, I do think that because there's the moment where Ty really stands up to and challenges Shauna and Shauna just wilts. Backs down. In a way that she just wouldn't with anyone else. That felt like a reminder in yet another way of how unique that particular relationship and dynamic is.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I read this a few ways. One, I think reminding us of their history, everything in the past with Ty being the first to know about the baby and being there for Shauna, etc. We've talked a lot about in the present timeline where they're cuddling in Callie's bed, kind of almost reverting to that teenage space of sharing secrets with each other.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Have we just come back from the Nat Misty conversation? Is this perhaps further into the future? No, there's no snow on the ground. Cody's head hasn't rotted yet. How far could it possibly be? But also it's frozen. Maybe the head would be fine. It just, I was like, I had to, it felt like too many speed bumps early. You're like, where are we on the BBYs?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Reminding us of that before then the present day declaration of... the hunt is on and we are opposed. Yeah. It's over. We are not aligned and I won't try to convince myself any longer that we should be. Yeah. So I think some of it is that. The thing that felt even more, like, present to me, though, was just protection. That Ty thinks that if Van went after Shauna, she could be harmed.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Because Shauna is a complete wild card and would not hesitate for a moment to try to stab Van through the heart.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Van has been on fire and also had her face eaten at a certain point and just, like, doesn't have the best track record with putting herself in dangerous positions. That's a great point.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Wolf face mauling. Yeah. Fine. You get impaled by a spear in a pit through the face, you're fucking toast. Yeah. But a wolf eats your face, you're good to go for another 25 years. Get a really cool artistic star on your face.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We get Mari being dragged naked through the snow. The showrunners talked in THR about the fact that this was a really upsetting moment for them. That we had seen the dragon without the face, but to see it be Mari dragged naked through the snow. Very exciting, yeah. Bring me her hair, now we understand. So the hair thing has sparked this whole...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Controversy that I feel unqualified to get into, so you can Google that if you want to. But visually... I think it is an extremely, I mean, obviously very creepy. Shauna from the start, Shauna loves a trophy. She kept Adam's driver's license. She loves a trophy. She kept Hannah's lock of hair and a little like a sort of indicator that this was coming.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Visually, from a like costume design point of view, the way that it turns her white robe into like an ermine, essentially, like it looks like a royal ermine cloak. Yeah. Yes. But it's Mari's fucking hair is tremendously creepy and, uh, Shauna scary. Okay. That's the, then we'll get to the rest. I mean, we already kind of talked about it, but we'll, we'll, we'll wrap it all up at the end.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Um, the breakdown for between then and now we've got the medium and I'm just saying the Lotties, this sort of like time bending Lottie moment. What do you want to say about this? Uh, or do you want to wait and save it until we get to the Lottie and Callie confrontation?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think we can probably hit most of it in the Lottie-Callie conversation. I guess just the way that adult Lottie kind of rises from the slab in the morgue and says, oh, no, no, no, no, did I miss it? And then young Lottie kind of soothes and calms, shh, we didn't miss anything. Do you remember what we promised? And then adult Lottie nods and young Lottie says, it's time to meet her.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So the her of Callie will hear everything that Lottie says to Callie about our, you're the baby of that place. Our child. Our baby, all of it. Lottie. But also, like, then everything that let Callie and the idea of this baby represent in terms of, like, the call of the antler queen, the call of the wilderness, etc., right?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You're like, how much time is passed precisely? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. I thought the stuff with Lottie and the very heightened, this is a mythical creature, antler queen with flames behind her, that was all really fun.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Just again, like, the melding of the timeline stuff was what stood out to me here because I think typically when we see... When we see the adult and teen versions of the characters with each other, it is this, like, I am dying. Liminal space. Yes. I am moving into the next plane, into the next phase. And this was...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Was this adult Lottie dreaming of being in the morgue and being woken by her teenage self? Because then she kind of sort of snaps awake in her gym jams in the stairwell.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And was this young Lottie dreaming of the future, of her own future? And she always knew that this death was coming because she dreamt of it when she was in the wilderness. Yes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. That's how it seemed. Unclear in a fun way, I think. Yes. Yeah, like the fact that in the dream she's in the same...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
white, like, nightgown that she had been in in the season one Larley baptism stretch and then kind of, like, seems to be deliberately wearing a white dress in the present timeline with her little blazer over it to kind of, like, mimic that outfit while also making sure we recognize that it is different. All of that was...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I have a quick question on the costuming front. And maybe I forget a moment in the cabin when they discovered a lot. Did they discover a lot of knitwear in the cabin? Because they have so many, like, alpine pattern knitwear aspects of their costume. When they were going to Seattle in the springtime? Uh-huh. Why were they packing all these ski sweaters to go to Seattle in the springtime?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
They should basically have formal outfits for whatever, like, you know, thing there is to celebrate nationals. Their soccer kits and then just a shitload of condoms from what Ben packed.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. That's all they should have. So those outfits should not be made of sweaters. They should be made of prophylactics is what you're saying.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
If that was someone with a mask, just a condom head. Sort of similar to Nicolas Cage in Raising Arizona with the pantyhose. And we just had like a condom over someone's head. Okay, cool. Someone should do that. It's not too late. It's not too late. Season four. They're not rescued yet. All right. The breakdown now. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Overall, I have some notes, I think, both stylistically and in terms of maybe what it signals about, like, okay, we had a lot of gaps to fill in for you and had to kind of do it all here with a special, like, whoosh, zoom, bam, fill in the blank cam kind of effect multiple times throughout the episode, you know, with the letter, various other places that I didn't like in volume and presentation.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Was, okay, these are actually just some, like, catch-up questions I wanted to ask you. Was Shauna right to be so aggressive about Melissa, given the you don't want to be, but I do stab moment? Like, how are we interpreting that? Was Shauna right?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So, last pod, I was still very much in the, like, Melissa could be revealed to be the perpetrator of all of this and, like, the villain of the season, space, right? I think that given what we learn about Callie and Lottie... And the gravity-defying letter.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And does, in essence, contain what Mel was trying to convince Shauna it did, which is, like, I've been carrying a lot of this with me, like, literally, but also emotionally, spiritually, and I want to move forward. Like, I have a family that I love, and I want to try to let go, and this is an anchor that is preventing me from doing so. I hope you can find peace, too.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
What it feels like to me, then, is yet another, like, And we talked about this last part, too. Like, another, like, we create our own demons kind of continuation where, much like in the past, Shauna activated Mel as an enemy. That that happened here. Like... Mel was ready to hurl that knife. Do you hurl a knife when you're stabbing someone? I don't think that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That would be more of like a Violet Sorengel throwing knife. This is more of a stab, stab, stab than a throw. Speaking of Violet Sorengel, sorry, really quickly. I finished the third book in Court of Thorns and Roses, by the way.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay. Well, let's talk about it, but not this very moment. This very moment, I want to circle back.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
to one of your favorite lines or actually I think it was Jodi's favorite line from Cody which is like have fun braiding each other's hair and engaging in some light cannibalism and in this episode Shauna's like rocking all these like she's got a fishtail braid she's got a lot of intricate braids going on leadership braids and I was just sort of like who's on who's on hair braiding duty for for Shauna and uh Shauna
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I hope you loved Katniss Everdeen. Like, I hope you loved Violet Sorengale. I hope you love a well-braided white woman. Okay. Sorry, back to you in the studio. What were you going to say?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So I guess it just, it feels to me like less Mel was engaging in some, executing some master plan to kill everybody. And now that she might try to, because she has once again, this like violent impulse that had been, you know,
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
suppressed has been awakened uh that's i think what seems more and i think this is they will never ally because uh i don't know if you remember but she stabbed van but like if ty and missy were to invite melissa to the diner table then we can all just like get this out just let's all take out shauna together and and call it a day and then we can all rest in pieces
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But I think what I really loved, and I forgot to write this down in the notes, but I was thinking about this a lot, this idea of the various factions, the Gadget Girls, the Team JV, Travis as this sort of wandering entity, blah, blah, blah. If all of us had... The fact that Shauna is holding...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
This camp, and let's say Shauna and Lottie if we want, and Shauna and Ty and Lottie if we want, and Shauna and Hannah and Ty and Lottie if we want, but really Shauna, with one fucking gun, majority under her boot, if we all work together... then we should be able to easily overwhelm her.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But isn't it the nature of, I don't know, our current political landscape or whatever, like a fascistic rule or whatever, that like there are too many factions that can't figure out how to combine their interests against this, this person wheeling power, like a cudgel who's, who's wheeling power like a cudgel.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And it was deeply invested in keeping you separated and keeping you vulnerable and keeping you scattered. Yeah. I thought that was a really good, like, I was reading, someone was writing about the fact that, like, if Hannah had gotten to camp, you know, Hannah and Edwin and Cody had gotten to camp just, like, three days earlier, they would have found the lake.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
you know, the Nat regime, the democratic socialist regime, the utopian regime. But oops, they got to like, what was it? They called, they called the, this is a meme I saw. They called Shauna gay Stalin. They're like, oops, she got gay Stalin instead. And it's just like, oh, what a difference a couple of days makes.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But I guess they still would have found Not Ben's head, but Ben imprisoned in an animal pen, soaked in his own piss, next to piles of rotting food. Not great, but I guess they could have said, hey, man, he tried to burn us alive in a cabin. Better, yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You didn't love the way that that letter defied logic and physics and our concept of how non-cartoon things work.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
He tried to burn us alive in a cabin. What were we supposed to do?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Oh, that reminds me. One of the Lottie flashes, I completely forgot about this until you just said burned in the cabin. One of those rapid Lottie flashes was the burning cabin. Do you take that to mean that Lottie burned the cabin or no?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I wouldn't be fucking surprised if she did. Yeah. She's a loon. We support mental health issues. Okay, so let me follow back, swoop back to this other question. Was the other one, capital O, other capital O, one, right that she could have saved Van when Nice Tie could not? Could she have protected Van, do you think? Uh, what do you think?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I don't know. This is very muddled to me in the show still. Same. Like I, I'm not just in terms of what is happening when, but kind of the message, like what we're supposed to take from it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And like my interpretation. Okay. So let's, let's talk about, okay, great. Uh, would you like to care to comment on how deep the grave was that Ty, uh, Doug for the first thing I texted you about? Yes, it was. What do you want to say?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Famously, infamously in Yellow Jackets, Adam's severed, mutilated corpse was found because they didn't do a good enough job of digging a grave. I will say... Obviously, everything that happened with Van is very sad. However, on the genuine comedy front, being like, well, it's a redhead, so all we need is just a few strands of red hair poking through the carnival.
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'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
How much mayo and or vomit residue is on the Sudeikis kitchen floor at any point that could lead objects to slide in a true slip and slide fashion? Who am I to say? Sure.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Incredible stuff. High comedy. The fact that this was such a shallow grave that Ty could basically just proper elbows lean forward and cut out a human heart to then chow down on, uh, The grave is not deep enough. The body will be found. What are we doing here? Have we learned nothing? Also, why not burn the body? You need to eat the organ meat. You know, Travis took a bite out of Javi's heart.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I guess this is how they honor each other, as they like to say. Okay. But then burn the body? Won't Van be found?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Speaking of braided white women, Ty, you're going to love Daenerys Targaryen.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And I'm excited for that for you. Similar technique.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. Real chomp energy. It does seem easier to chew through a human heart in yellow jackets than it ever did to gnaw the horse meat.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay, so listen. That grave is too shallow. And it's also... the corners are like beautifully squared off. I was like, we have to, what, what are we doing squaring off the corners of this grave? If we're not going to take the time to dig it deeper. Also. Yeah. Shauna, fuck you. I'm mad at you, but help me dig the grave deep, you know, like get out of the car and help me dig the grave.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then we can never talk again. Like it was just like, what the fuck? Um, okay. Um, So then she says, this is to go back to your point of like, we're having trouble tracking this. She says, I'm done forgetting it. Starting now, Van, I'm going to remember all of it. All of you and all of me. Okay. So is all of her...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
both the other one is she reconciling her two halves um we've never understood sort of how this two half thing works uh is our understanding that for the rest of the episode we are dealing with a fully uh integrated reintegrated uh tie or are we is the other one got the wheel again if it if
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like anything is possible underneath the Sudeikis fridge. No, that was just pulled by a mythical force.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
If there were a time for the other one to take the wheel, would it not be after Van dies and we're hunting Shauna? But there was no... In her demeanor in that diner scene with Misty, it did not really seem to me like the other one, though I have a hard time always distinguishing. So, like, what do you think?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So... I think in part to latch on to this other read of it because I am having trouble with the actual kind of like canon of the show in this respect. What felt important to me about this is that Ty is seeking retribution and vengeance against Shauna and that this is something that Ty has struggled with that Shauna has not.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Were there magnets involved? Magnets, bitch. Yeah, exactly. What happened here?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Part of Shauna's journey and the thing we have tracked with Shauna is like we talked about this a lot with when the scene with Shauna and Jeff and... Adam's Studio in season two. It was very top of mind for me watching Callie work through how she felt about her mother and what Lottie was saying to her about her mother and how similar they are and what that might mean. Um...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Shauna likes the dark parts of herself. And Shauna, her journey has been a journey of embrace and then rediscovery and embrace again. And for Ty to be an equal match for Shauna, she has to do that too. I think that is what the show is telling us. Mm-hmm. Whether we have any ability to understand who's what or like, I don't know.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You know, when Ty is hiding in the tree outside of Sammy's window and scaring him or eating dirt while Van is getting mauled by a wolf or mutilating Biscuit and not remembering it, it's about fearing what she is capable of and not knowing what she has done or the impact it has had on herself and the people she cares about.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
However, all that said, I thought that this was a, in both timelines, like, quite exciting and propulsive finale. I think that where it left us, hopefully heading into, as yet, upon recording, not greenlit, but hopefully pending. Bizarre. Future season, very interesting and exciting. I thought there was a lot of, like, rich thematic text to parse here in both timelines.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And this is just a deliberate decision to pivot her relationship to that like duality inside of her.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I thought it was really interesting to me that like the showrunners talked in that THR article about like the fact that like Ty had maybe channeled some of that into her like political career ambition that like she had sort of repurposed that side of her into this other thing. And that Shauna had like suppressed it and buried it in her like deeply mediocre.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
There's no judgment on anyone who wants to like live in suburbia and be a mom, but for like, No, but that's how Shauna thinks about it. Stifling, like, stifling it all down to be, you know, quote, just a mom or whatever in suburbia. And so, like, and yeah, so there's this reclaiming, this reawakening, this rechanneling for both of them. But my takeaway from that was, like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
All along, has Misty been the most psychologically healthy of all of us? Because she didn't suppress or, like, mischannel. She's just like, guess what? I got some darkness in me. And it's here. You piss me off at the old folks' home. I'm going to deny you your medication.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I won't change your linens. Like, anyway. Even Misty, though, is not capable of saying to Callie, Let me tell you, take it from an expert, I know how secretly poisoning people works. Let's talk about Misty.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Oh, man. Misty, star of the show. Christina Ricci, star of the show. So good. The day Christina Ricci dies on the show is the day perhaps I am done with this show, okay? Yeah. That's a devious thing to do, drugging someone without their knowledge. Go off, Misty, you unselfaware queen. Just, like, incredible stuff from Misty to Callie. Really, really good.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's really hard to pick a favorite Misty line from this episode because she had a couple incredible ones both to Callie and then some unbelievable lines later for Shauna. But I thought when she was talking about mitochondrial DNA, which I know you have some impending dispatches about for us here, when she then said, and apparently homicidal DNA.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I found that quite amusing. Laura, or it was Laura who had previously written in a very long email about sort of like whether or not Callie's DNA could be confused for Shauna. Laura wrote a medium long email, of which I'm only going to read a little bit, but she says, Missy tells Callie that mothers and daughters share mitochondrial DNA, which is absolutely true.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Actually, mothers pass their mitochondrial DNA down to all of their children regardless of sex. But in no universe is anyone using mitochondrial DNA for forensic identity testing for this exact reason. It's not specific to one individual. So Laura was like... This is absolute scientific bullshit. Yeah. Did it result in this great scene with Misty and Callie?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Was I amused? I was, so I'm not mad about it, but just in case you're wondering about the science, it's bullshit.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay. I guess that's what happens when it's just a bunch of Misty's would-be boyfriends who are cracking the case here, like the guy she bribed into sending over the evidence and then Walter, who's like, I ran some comps. I do have an actual question about this, though, not about mitochondrial DNA, which is not a thing I understand, even after that helpful email.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
does it make sense to you in the universe of the show where multiple seasons were spent with law enforcement pursuing the Sudeikis that whether the mitochondrial part of it tracks or not, that there is DNA evidence on the victim, like a dead person, and there's no knock, knock, knock, we have some questions for you?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
My only answer to that, and it's a shabby one, Do we think Mr. Matthews, even in his deep dementia, could once again just be throwing money at a problem and being like, let's bury this?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And I thought, to the episode name Full Circle, everything with Pit Girl and everything with The Hunt, I honestly found it riveting. Absolutely. It was just thrilling to finally get it and see it. Devastating. R.I.P. Mari, a queen and our queen. I may never recover. I'm so excited to mourn with you and talk to you about this today. But I thought that was all just fantastic.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Maybe. Maybe that's why we had that moment in the apartment where he was like, yeah, down at the station, yada, yada. That's probably it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
All right. Callie tells Misty about the tape and that she knew Lottie had taken it. And then we just get this amazing moment where Callie walks into the building and Lottie walks out of the door of the basement. And she's just like, hello, it's me, Lottie, in a silver jacket and silk dress in my grimy, drippy, underground candlelit lair. I'm Phantom of the Opering.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You know, Misty and Walter would love this moment for me as I... Basically put on a half mask and draw you, Christine, down into my lair. Um... Really great, like, there's a lot about this I don't like, but you want to understand your mother is a great thing.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We had a lot of people being like, ahem. excuse me where's the yellow jackets finale um i was traveling and then also there was a little show called the last of us that premiered and we wanted to make sure to get our hot mushroom takes a little like appetizy a little appetizer of of mushroom takes before the full cannibal fleshy protein packed meal that is the yellow jackets finale um
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And, like, again, as I mentioned, all this back and forth about, like, Callie is, yes, someone who is, like, I don't know, channeling capital I. It maybe has inherited the homicidal tendencies from her mother, maybe. But as, like, a teenage daughter who just wants to understand, does my mom even love me? I look at her sometimes and I'm not really sure I like, I see actual human emotion there.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I don't know what's going on. I want to understand what happened to her out there. And will that help me understand why my feeling with why my relationship with my mother feels so different from what some of my peers experienced with their mother. Like all of that stuff I think is really interesting to me. And then Lottie is just being her most absolute Lottie in, in the midst of all of that. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah, I think that that Kali Shauna aspect of this was, I agree, quite poignant. You know, it made me think back to multiple prior moments for both of them. I think from Shauna's perspective, it made me think about the season two police interrogation sequence where, you know, she's. the room, but also it felt in real time really said something very honest and true.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like you have a kid that you don't want to save a marriage that you got into out of guilt and shame. And you just, you can't really let yourself love either of them. And then she pauses and says, but of course you do. You love them despite yourself. You're just incredibly bad at it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And that this like really central defining insecurity for Shauna about herself and who she is as a wife and a mother and for her family, like is something that Callie feels like. and wonders about was so painful and sad to hear and confront. I just loved that because that relationship is such a core heartbeat of the show.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then from the Callie side of it, you know, obviously we'll get to the Jeff-Callie part of it where it's more, I would say, clear in that scene from both of them, Jeff and Callie, like, you're not like Shauna and we'll say that out loud and that's important for us to say because being exactly like Shauna would be bad and scary.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Here in this conversation with Lottie, it felt more complex to me from Callie's perspective that she simultaneously yearns for that closeness and proximity and similarity and was the person who sat next to her mom and watched and laughed together the Swift Eats organ bag dumping. Yeah. And like... Also is scared of that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Also is scared that she did hold a gun out in the in the forest last season and did poison Misty and did order me to dump on a friend and did, did, did, did, did. And is like, what does it mean if this thing that I fear in my mother is inside of me? And then it made me think of the mall conversation with Lottie and Callie in episode three this season.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
fantastic and like really fun to watch and also just really rewarding to watch for people who have been fans of the show for um for for three seasons so you know a couple things didn't work super well for me in it but overall i thought it was a successful finale and a fun end note for the season how about you i think that's great i like i watched this because i knew i wasn't going to be on last week so i just like as soon as we finished recording like two weeks ago i just watched the
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Where Lottie, the way that Lottie positioned it to her was like, I guess what I'm really asking you is tell me who you are. If you could describe yourself without embarrassment or shame, and especially without the fear that you might say something that scares you, what would you say? And it's like so much of the show orients around that question, right?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's a little bit of the like, Gail, are you brave enough to say it out loud thing, but about yourself. And like, I think that's... Will this ultimately be a source of closeness for Callie and Shauna or a, a, a rift, an unresolvable rift between them is, is something I'm, I'm very interested in.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. That's really interesting to me. I think, I think, um, I think about this all the time. So like, you know, I have a, I have a very fraught relationship with my own mother and like, uh,
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
What's interesting to me is, like, there are ways in which my mom interacts with people, shows or doesn't show emotion, all the sort of stuff like that that I find, like, really unappealing and a way in which I don't want to be going through the world.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then there are times when, like, I'm really good at a crossword puzzle or I can do languages or I can do this and I know I get that directly from my mom, like, directly from her, that I'm, like... There are ways in which you're like your mother and you're excited. And then I'm like, oh, there are ways in which I am like her and I'm not excited about it.
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'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And I'm just sort of like... But it's not a wholesale rejection of it. It's like, this is a person who has these interesting good qualities, has this kind of power, that kind of power or allure that I'm interested in. But then if I...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
pursue that do i then have to take on these other things that come with it that i that feel less attractive to me um so it's it's all like mothers and daughters stuff is so complicated and i love the show is trying to actively engage in that inside of this episode um inside of this like kind of dumb moment um There's a lot that's really cool.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Lottie, once again, being her classic, like, it's our baby. Like, shut the fuck up, Lottie. Like, what are you doing? Sort of moment. This idea that Lottie, to your point, I love the way you phrased it earlier, this idea that the tape was a little piece of cheddar in the maze to lure Callie there to her death. Like, she's like, I'm supposed to die here at the hand of the wilderness baby.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That is sort of like a little, like, do it. Like, I want to see the wilderness... flourish and blossom inside of you and killing me. Right. Will help it grow in you. And I want to, I'm, that is a sacrifice I'm gladly making my beautiful silk gown, you know, in my weird, like floating down the stairs death.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
My memory, did I misremember is that when Misty goes to the scene of the crime, does she not take, Like, scrapings from the wall where there were, like, nail furrows in the wall. Am I misremembering that? You are not. That happened. Lottie free falls and does not make any contact with any piece of plaster on her way down is what I saw with my eyeballs. Is that what you saw?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We certainly got the, like, okay, I'm grabbing Callie's hand, so we've got the under the nails check.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So, and then I rewatched the finale yesterday. And so it had been a couple weeks. And when I had talked to you sort of in between, I was like, I loved the finale. And then I rewatched it yesterday. I was like, oh, wait, I actually do have a lot of notes about this finale. But I still loved it. And there's just something about like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Given the zoom in effect on the nail markings on the wall earlier in the season, that was absolute.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
If I wasn't going to do it as part of the fall, I would simply have cut that part of it early in the season. Yeah, that's just me. Okay. So as you mentioned, Callie and Jeff have this conversation where Jeff is like, okay, I didn't like this.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Jeff says it took your mom 25 years to tell me 10% of the truth, and now it doesn't even seem like it was even that much, like even 10% of the truth, maybe only 1% of the truth. I really hate this revisionist history because we discussed this earlier. We really liked this idea that Jeff knew everything and loved her anyway. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And I hate this idea that Jeff is now like, actually, I only know a little bit, a little smidgeroo, and Shauna sucks. We agree, Jeff, but that's okay. Shauna sucks. And he says he's sorry he didn't protect Callie from her. Was your interpretation of this from Lottie or from Shauna? You think it's from Shauna?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Which is just heartbreaking, right? Because, like... Obviously, his teenage child has been embroiled in this.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
In this aspect of the Yellow Jackets experience that has led her to, like so many of them, commit murder. Yeah. And, you know, I think when Lottie, who, you know, throughout season two, we heard, you know, muttering to the baby, you're going to change everything, et cetera, has been obsessed, as we've talked about many times with this child, for Lottie to say, like, you only could have come here.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I've been waiting 25 years. And again, like, Rob Calley of the agency, weirdly, like... Jeff is doing that in a different way too, I thought. You know, by saying like, I mean, obviously part of it is the comfort of a parent. It's going to be okay. You were scared. You didn't mean it. You were protecting yourself. That's true.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But also, Callie sought in many ways, in an effort to understand, Callie sought a presence inside of this. Callie sought a connection to it and wound up seeking the tape, but first a pursuit of some sort of insight and understanding as well, wound up in a place where she was in the bowels. You used the word bowels in the outline and it got me right into bowels of a pleasure den.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That's why I used it. Sadly, not a pleasure den here, but always wonderful to see the word bowels in the outline. Thank you. The bowels of Lottie's father's apartment building in a position where this uh enticement to push leads to someone dying like Callie is actually a part of this and has culpability too has she been um ill-served by many of the adults around her? Yes, definitely.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But what does it mean that she wanted these things? That she felt this kind of pull? Like, that also has to be, I would assume, something that the character...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think they were able to accomplish something in this finale that there was just like an assurity of a couple of the moves and a couple of the reveals that were so exciting. Like, that's not Nat, it's Hannah was like, I thought a really exciting moment. Like, there's a lot of like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I love this. This is of that really great sort of sprawling THR interview. I thought this answer from Jonathan Lisko is one of my favorite, where he's talking about this interaction between Jeff and Callie. And he says, quote, we'll see how Callie continues to remember that moment. Right. So this, you know, end quote.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So this interacts with, like, so much of what you've been sort of seeding and teasing all episode discussion of this idea of memory and what do we remember and what has been real and what hasn't and how have we warped something. How has Shauna warped the Mari hunt to be, oh, something we all did together rather than something she or Lottie drove sort of specifically. And Jeff...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I like the way you're connecting it to the sort of robbing of agency and vandalizing sort of like you were just scared. That's all. That's all. You couldn't help it. You had no control over it. What could you possibly do? We saw the shove. That was a shove. Yeah, not push her down the stairs.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
That wasn't a let me pull my hand out of your grasp and oops, you're wearing impractical heels in a drippy basement. And you fell down because you chose glamour over practicality once again, Monty. You need a nice rubber-soled shoe with grip. Yes. God damn it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Silk dresses. Okay. Lottie being like, I'm going to—this is it. It's time. I'm going to die in this candlelit stairwell, and I'm going to look fucking dynamite when I do it is honestly iconic. That's true. I think to your point about Jeff rewriting this thing that felt really central to his relationship with Shawna, I do agree with you.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think, like, I guess it could fall into this same thing we're talking about where Jeff is recontextualizing for himself because he is so—
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
so bitter right now and driven by resentment and he feels like whether it's shauna not supporting him or shauna withholding i think the thing that felt like the distinction he's drawing to me here was like callie sought him out and told him and shauna has never done that like even though he in his mind right like he found the journals he read them he accepted her anyway and then she was like you knew and you loved me anyway and that was beautiful that she didn't offer that up
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
freely to him now I'm not saying she should have but I think then every moment since he has begged her like I'm here I stayed just keep showing me who you are I love you anyway obviously he has reached a limit but I think in part driven by his feeling that she did not continue to confide in him or trust him That he would remain around and maybe he has not earned that trust.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
flashbacks inside of what happened who's conspiring where that was a little muddled but that it's not Nat it's Hannah reveal I thought was really really they really got me and then the cut to I told you that I loved the Aerosmith needle drop not everyone did we got some emails about it but I loved I loved it And so the Aerosmith needle drop, Nat on top.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But he seems to then be, like, doubting that he knows the things that he thought he knew because he's like, well, what did she give me actually ever? Which is not really true.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
What I think is so interesting is, like, you're saying, like, well, Jeff is... Yeah, it almost seems like this sort of transference. You see this sometimes in parents, this idea of, like, your partner is your person, and then you're, like, your child becomes your person for a variety of different reasons. But, like, he's just sort of like, I'm all in on Callie now. Like, fuck Team Shawna.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I'm all in on Team Callie now or whatever. What's interesting about, like, Jeff's interpretation of she came to me. Shawna never did, but she came to me. It's really misty.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Push her to Jeff. And that brings us to my favorite scene of the episode and maybe of life itself, which is Misty prying Walter's beautiful sign for Caligula off the cage. Tough. But there's hope for these lovebirds yet. I'll come back to that in a second. Shauna comes storming, finds out that Jeff and Callie have gone. Callie's phone has been turned off.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
This is incredible. This is what the show should be. Misty has so many incredible lines, but I do have to give the line of the episode to Shauna when she says, I know neither of them would ever know how to contact the phone company. Incredible and definitely, like, true. Kelly's phone has been cut off and I know neither of them.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And the way that Melanie Linsky said it, it was just like, it had me in stitches. It was so good. But yeah, but Missy saying the shock of you taking responsibility for your actions might actually give me a stroke. That was great. Yeah. The aforementioned busy eating your ex-girlfriend's arm line that you quoted earlier. That was my absolute favorite. But here's the deal. They're talking about it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And Sean, they're talking about everything. Misty being so—she's like, there's all these cameras on you. I'm going to get a restraining order. I know what you are, and I'm not scared of you. I was, like, kissing your ass at the beginning of the season, but now I am in, like, more control of myself. Thank you, Walter, by the way. But she says— Like, Shauna's like, oh, so Walter knows?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And Misty's like, no, Walter doesn't know anything. And I was just like, it felt protective of Walter. Don't let Misty know. Don't let Shauna know that Walter knows a single thing about this.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. I thought it was two things. I thought it was like, Misty really boldly declared that she was going to get to the bottom of all of it. And I do think she wants them, like, the credit for having done so. But I agree with you. It was like... All right. I stole the cologne phone. I bailed on the air of cow shavings on the cocktail. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But I know that Shauna is capable of and will probably seek to eliminate anybody in possession of this damaging information about her daughter. I have to make sure that he's in the clear and that's... That's hopeful. That gives us hope for what might await.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
All right, let's go to the diner scene. Ty and Misty, the showrunners talked about how they really tried to match the initial diner scene between Shauna and Ty, which was filmed in LA, and they had to find the closest comp in Vancouver or whatever. A lot of people on the subreddit seemed to feel like this was bizarrely shot, but... So much so that I rewatched the scene. I was like, I disagree.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And like, and just like the visual of her up on that mountain. It was like fricking Lord of the Rings like territory. Like how beautiful it looked up there. And we love young Nat. We love that moment for that character. And so, and then just the voice, like, you know, I know, I know that there are plenty of people listening who don't like how often we talk about loss. I understand that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yes, they shoot it to give you Misty as a reveal. Misty as a surprise ally.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But as, let me just tell you, and I don't like to self-aggrandize, but as a connoisseur of these two people were definitely not in the same room when they shot this scene analysis of television that goes back to The Good Wife and before. Yeah. they were both there.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
This was like, because the theory is that it was supposed to be a different character, but that doesn't make sense because, you know, the theory is that they stitched Christina Ricci in there and it was originally supposed to be like adult Akilah or someone else, like whatever. With love and respect, I have to push back on that because Ty says, Shauna's responsible for everything. Wasn't me.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Wasn't me hiring Jessica Roberts. Wasn't anything like that. It was all Shauna. Right. Shauna's responsible for everything. Yeah. She's responsible for Van's death. She's responsible for Nat's death. And the reason that she hits Nat so hard is because she knows that will get to Misty. Doesn't make sense that it would be anyone other, I think, than Misty sitting across from her there.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
There's so few people left for it to be. Me think. Yeah. Jen, where are you? We'd love to see you.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Blah, blah, blah. My theory brain, like what is going, is there something else afoot in this scene? Hang up was actually like what I thought, perhaps just because I am losing my hearing and or my headphones needed to be charged. I thought like a crackly static sound from the jukebox. And I was like, is this another like neon glowing phone? Like, oh, something. I don't know.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I mean, given that quote from Bartnick, who said that we were in the beginning, who knows whatever is happening on this show. In terms of this idea of forgetting, which we've been talking about throughout, which is really compelling as an idea, but it is also like clear cover for these discrepancies that you've been talking about.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We got this email from, I want to say you would pronounce his name Elena, but perhaps Alana. Yeah.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
but there's a fun little I in there, so it might be Elena, who wrote, it seems to me that they've tried to correct for the team timeline development of Shauna with Ty's statement at the end about forgetting how bad it was out there, specifically forgetting how bad Shauna was as a way for us to understand how the adults could have possibly acted the way they did and worked together in earlier seasons after we now have seen what happened in their past.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It might be true that they always had Shauna being essentially a dictator as part of the plan, but the development of it leaves something to be desired. And I kind of agree with that, you know?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I yeah, I do as well. And I think, you know, we're going to we're going to hit this same idea in the journal entry that Shauna has. I think like it is definitely true that throughout the entire show. this idea has been present. Like... A memory. Yes. As recently as last week, young Van said to young Ty, like, the mind forgets to protect itself. I get it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Like, they're priming for this a little bit. The one example that really stood out to me thinking back, like, okay, how primed have we been for the centrality of this concept here at the end of Season 3 was... season two, episode seven, when they're all together again up at Lottie Colt Sunshine Honeyland. And they just have a conversation about memory. Nat asks, how much do you guys remember?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I remember it's just some things are hazy. And Ty says, yeah, like they've just been stuffed somewhere deep down. And Lottie replied, well, that's a familiar cognitive response. In an ecstatic state, the human mind can't hold memory that well. And Shauna said, well, if I'm repressing things I don't know about, I am very okay with never finding out. So it's been there. It's been there.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
that voice on the other side of the radio just remind not even a specific moment just gave me that one of those like great lost finale moments of like totally someone's out there someone heard them now that person might get an arrow to the fucking head mere minutes into the as yet announced and I'll talk about the second season for premiere but I just love me feeling like so exhilarated the misty tie summit left me feeling excited for the first time in a long time about where tie storyline is going to go because I feel like it's a really fast
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I really agree with what you said, though, that the worry I have is that it's always going to be the, like, well... They didn't remember. They didn't remember, and now we can explain why this, like, completely different dynamic exists between these characters based on something surfacing.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I think in terms of what Shauna wrote, what Ty is declaring here, too, but what Shauna wrote and this idea of, like, the thing that you...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
tamped down um maybe not being out of like fear but almost because nothing else in your life could ever compare to it again but that was when you were most alive like this idea of the activation again like that's really interesting to me i think like almost not letting yourself remember what it was like when you felt like you were the purest truest version of yourself because you don't know if you can be again i'm interested in that and the show's uh desire to explore the way trauma like
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
remains very present in your life, but maybe through its specific lens of interest in Yellowjacket's land, where the darkness and the way the darkness surfaces is so crucial to the story that they're telling. So, like, I think it's interesting. I'm open to it. But, yeah, I have the same worry about how it could just always be the justification. Yada, yada, yada. Yeah. We didn't remember it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Okay. Did you know that Walter was out there and we just forgot about it? Okay. Walter is watching this while listening to Slayer. It's a different vibe. Where are the show tunes, Walter? It's a different vibe. Also, a very awkward Elijah Wood moment here in the finale. I'm always happy to see him. I'm not upset to see him, but good use of Walter.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Could we have found a better way to have Elijah Wood show up in the finale? What do you think? Yeah, he could have gotten out of a helicopter again. Wow. Some, like, anti-mame blares on the speakers or something like that. Okay. I want to shout out... Bart Knickerson is, again, as we mentioned, director of this episode. I want to shout out the cut from whoever's choice that was.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The editor, script writer, whoever's choice this was. The cut of Mari getting butchered to Shauna heating up a hot pocket and swigging rum from the bottle in her Throwing Muses shirt was just, like, incredible stuff for me. Anything you want to say that we haven't already mentioned about Melissa's gravity-defying letter?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I guess I will... Okay. Actually, yes. I will say, because I... I'm not sure if either of us has mentioned this pod that this was just extremely silly. Very, very silly. However, here is what I will say in defense of this reveal. It's another version of it's not it's not supernatural. There's always another explanation. But like, was this person trying to kill me? There's another explanation.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
There was a letter and it slid and I didn't see it. And then I went on this rampage of inciting the compounding exponentially catastrophic outcomes because I felt really sure that this thing was happening that wasn't. I think the mundane explanation being actually the explanation that maybe nothing nefarious or something less nefarious. I won't say nothing nefarious.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Something would be less nefarious than you cut the brakes, you left the phone, you did the freezer door, all of it. I think that the fact that just like a thing happened in your normal life And then you thought it was something extraordinary feels like always something that's interesting for the show to play with. And interesting for Shauna. And I like that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And interesting for Shauna in particular to have to confront.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. The reads from Misty and from Melissa to Shauna about who she is, great stuff. Yeah. So if we're still doing clips, we would hear this, but we are not doing clips or more sporadically, more sparingly doing clips on this show. So Shauna tears up the letter, puts it in the garbage disposal. Totally fine and normal. That's fine.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We get the flashback to the rabbit death, to Adam's death, to Yankee the Knight, like all his feral moments for Shauna, right? Yeah. And then we get, she's journaling, but really she's writing on some Jolly Hitcher stationery. And she says, The trauma people say survivors forget things to protect themselves because they were so horrible.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But I think we can't or won't remember it clearly because we recognize deep down that we were having so much fun. That's the terrible truth we left out there buried, along with people we called our friends, except it's all coming back to me now. The danger, the thrill, the person I was back then. Not a wife or a mother. I was a warrior. I was a fucking queen. I let all of it slip away from me.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
floundering but like drawing her into misty chaos very exciting for me and then Shauna is like you know, fricking full villain turn seemingly is, uh, that relieves some pressure for me around that character. Cause I was just like, I felt like I was drowning in my attempt to empathize with her and I can still empathize with her.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Great writing. Phenomenal stuff. We were having so much fun. Shawna, you were having some fun being a boss bitch in charge. I would say someone like Travis, who's like, we've been locked in hell, and I ate my brother. We ate a kid! We ate a kid. But the fundamental idea of that power we had then, that ecstasy, that all of that stuff that we got, that feral... Fuck the patriarchy.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Joel McHale is Bailey on the show because he is simply too masculine to survive out here. Travis gets to live because he's like a little soy boy drinking mushroom tea. Like, is... An interesting thing that the show has always had on its mind, that the show has done well and does really well here, I think.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Totally. And I think that's why also this is like a delicious moment as a fan. We've talked a lot throughout the season about where we are with Shauna. And, you know, I love what you said at the beginning about
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
empathy specifically with Shauna and I thought this was a great complicated moment to be a viewer of the show and I found myself simultaneously proud of Shauna for being honest excited more broadly about the show's continued interest in like a middle-aged woman saying this is who I am and I'm not embarrassed by it and I'm not ashamed of it actually I'm going to embrace who it is and it's up to everybody else to decide if they're okay with it or get out of my fucking way like I love I honestly love that part of it
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And then also I was terrified by this and like to see Shauna no longer held in check by herself, by an intact family unit, by some however flimsy idea of a pledge and a vow that they had all made when they got back to stay true to each other.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Unburdened by her role of mother and wife and stuff like that. Like cut free. What will she do? What will she do? I'm excited, and I'm so excited that Misty is on the other team, because with love and respect to Ty, we'll see what Ty can do. We haven't gotten the full scope of what Ty can do, but I know what Misty can do.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And Misty v. Shauna is... And that's why I thought it was so interesting to come back to this end moment. Again, we talked about this. I loved... This Nat on the mountain, you know, Aerosmith moment. But the cut to Misty's smile, sort of framing it as this Misty victory, was so important in a show where Nat is no longer alive in the present timeline. So it's got to be like, and neither is Van.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So in terms of like Team Gadget Girl, it's just Misty carrying the torch here. So like Misty v. Shauna.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
You would have kept us there forever and I helped get us home.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Yeah. Great stuff. Okay. we were talking about the afterlife stuff. I had a moment where I thought I misinterpreted what Van says on the plane in the last episode where I thought it meant we were going to get like, this is very lost brain of me, but like flashlight, like more plane based stuff. And we would get to see like dead characters get to exist in some sort of afterlife thing.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But it seems like, That's not what they were going for at all. It seems like when Van was like, if this isn't the ending, then what happens? Where would be the fun in that? They're talking about, like, what actually happens in the afterlife per the interview that they gave THR. But I was sort of hoping we would get a, like, what's, you know what I mean? What's their bardo? What's their whatever?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Anything you want to say about any Theory Corner stuff? Anything we haven't gotten to? I had to at least, like, get close to your episode runtime with Jodi. I couldn't be shown up in my own feed by Jodi Walker doing a supersized episode.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But if I'm empathizing with like a villain, that's a different mode than me trying to empathize with like someone I find heroic. And so I can still find ways to empathize with her, with her trauma, what drove her here. Um,
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
There was a lot to talk about at the end of this Yellowjacket season. My goodness. Theory Corner, I guess this is, like, I mean... Let's see, where was it? That's the terrible truth. We left out there buried along with the people we called our friends.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The sentence structure there, buried, I assume that means just literally they're talking about the dead people, the people who died and were buried there. But I did have a part of me that was like, along with the people we called our friends left behind? Because we've been, you know, excited, I think, and interested in that possibility. Like...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Are there going to be people who just don't get rescued? Now I wonder if they have enough time left to play with that idea. If there is only one more season left, perhaps. It feels like, I don't know, a lot to introduce. But 10 episodes is not nothing. And maybe it's 20, and then that's actually a lot.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Oh, last thing. Sorry. Honestly, if I hadn't asked you this, I would have been like, we need to jump back on. are Jeff and Kelly with Randy?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Follow up question for you. And I would just, I don't want to hurt your feelings. Is there a version of the show where Jeff is not in season four? If the point is Shauna, if the point is Shauna Unshackled, is there a version of the show? Oh my God. I don't think they can resist using Warren Cole, but I do feel like sometimes the show gets a little like, Jeff is so good, we have to use him.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and to that I would say Jeff is so good, they have to use him. I mean, a similar thing could probably be said about Walter, so like, okay. Don't worry, our favorite men will survive and hopefully back in season four. Best needle drop. Okay, so we already mentioned the Slayer needle drop in Walter's car.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But if we're taking the pressure off of me, like having her in one mode and putting her into another, all of a sudden I got really excited about what Melanie Linsky can do with that character and all the rest. So I just, I felt like reinvigorated after a season of a lot of ups and downs. It's just really got me excited.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
yeah there's this yeah sleepwalking like uh original track by craig worden and anna warunker i don't know warunker they seem like w names that would be va at the beginning of them warunker anna maybe great stuff craig and anna great stuff um a marion faithful track which is great because marion faithful's voice is like so yellow jacket so great stuff And that fucking Aerosmith living on the edge.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
It's got to be Aerosmith, right? How could it not be? This is an all-time needle drop for me in any show ever. I will forever think about Nat up on the mountain and Aerosmith kicking in. Like, I just thought it was great.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Just a genuinely great moment. Hearing this needle drop, seeing Nat, thinking of all of those fucking Javi hunts with Travis up the summits, all the cartography work. Like, Nat being in the best position to do that and then doing it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Is the assumption, it's Hannah's, like, the reason you can't get it to work is you need to take it to higher ground. Is that, that was my assumption. That, like, they have this conversation, we don't see what happened, where they switch clothing and stuff like that.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
But Hannah's like, the reason you can't, you got the doohickey, the theme of Bob, and you put it in the who's he, what's it, but you're not getting any reception, you need to go to higher ground, and that's what happened.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
goes for a climb yeah maybe specifically as the the ceiling bit of intel it's like somebody telling another person about their idol on tribal it's like i could just tell you that i like yeah i actually like did what i had to do because i want to survive but what if i actually helped you what if i gave you information that you could use um so that you left me alive and then you went and did this thing that seems that seems reasonable who answered the call oh
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Is it a frog scientist? Is it another frog scientist? Could be. I don't know. And is it Penny's boat or is it not Penny's boat? That's the question. You know what I mean? Is it someone they want to have rescued them or not? Hannah. Is she making it through season four, episode one? Now that Shauna knows what she did?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We still haven't seen the, like, Mel and Jen got close to her stuff. I know. So I think she has to live a little longer than that. Okay.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
I feel like they could have been like, yeah, that happened. You missed yada, yada, yada.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
this has been it for season three of yellow jackets. We've had such a blast covering it. Uh, thank you to everyone who like emailed us, tweeted at us, blue sky at us. Uh, you guys were just like really enthusiastic about our coverage of the show. We really appreciate it.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Shout out to all the bad babies that I met at the Buffy vampire slayer prom in Torrance, California, two weekends ago, who all wanted to talk to me about yellow jackets theories and their feelings on Shauna. It was very cute. Uh, so shout out to all of you guys. You're the best. And, uh, we will be back for daredevil coverage. Yes. For The Last of Us coverage.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So yeah, I really agree. And I think that's a, I would say seasons two and three were both uneven, but that The upswing in the finale is a notable contrast to how we felt coming out of season two, where we were like, oh, boy. Yeah. Oh, boy. Oh, no.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Listen, if you've made it through the cannibal apocalypse and you're like, ugh, what do I do with myself now? Come on board the mushroom apocalypse. It's great. It's great. If you do not watch season one of that show, I just... Mallory doesn't like horror and she loves The Last of Us. It's an incredible show. It's the best. We really, really recommend you watch it. Okay.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
My God, what a treat. Carlos Chiriboga and Stephen Holliman are on this episode.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
Arjuna Rangapal, thank you so much for everything you do and to Joe Miadinaran for his work on the social, clipping something probably truly unhinged that we said about eating your friends from this episode of the podcast. We'll be back soon. Mallory, I'm so delighted to be reunited with you even though we are long distance now.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
We have some questions and concerns that we would like to work through in Steve Allman's Stockholm hotel room with everybody trying to cram into three square feet to record a podcast for an episode we watch at 3 a.m., Memories. What a time that was.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
No air conditioning. That's right. How could I forget the no AC? I really agree on the Nat moment. I thought that was incredible. I got chills watching that. I also was really thinking of Lost for plot-specific reasons, but I'm with you. That just feeling it evoked. And the other thing I love about it is...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
The recontextualization then of something like seeing Misty's face, the mask removal, the glasses, the smirk. Like we just have, we're able to, and that's a hard thing to do to return to a moment that has been so central and hyped and anticipated in the fandom. When will we understand what led to this?
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
What's going on elsewhere in any of the feeds you ask? So thrilled to tell you. So we have our Last of Us deep dive that we did. You can check that out, of course. The Midnight Boys, pew, pew, did their Last of Us instant reaction. So you can check that out. They will have their Daredevil Born Again reactions. We will have our Daredevil Born Again reactions later this week.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And to be able to hold it together, but then imbue it with all of this new context and clarity, character motivations, even just a glance like that, even the half of a wrinkle of somebody's lip can mean something completely different to us now because of everything unfolding around it. That's impressive. So everything there at the end was just like this surge.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
And I really can't wait to see what they do. And I really hope they have a chance to...
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
finish this up okay so i'll say this it i do think it's a bit bizarre that they have not announced the renewal but my understanding and i know that people like take what i say and put it on the subreddit just like which is great and i feel honored but like take this with a grain of salt but this is what i have heard so i'm not reporting this i'm not an outlet i'm not the trades i have heard this though
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
they're for sure getting a season four and that the question is, are they going to do four and five or are they just going to do four? And so I think what they're currently, the reason they haven't announced it is they're negotiating that deal. Are they going to do, we've been renewed for fourth and final season, or we've been renewed for four and five and that's how we're going to wrap it up.
House of R
'Yellowjackets' Episode 10 Deep Dive
So that happens all the time in Hollywood. That's a, that is the holdup. The show is to be clear. More popular, I believe, than it's ever been, which is wild to me because I think season one was far and away their most creatively successful season. So the fact that it is much more popular now in a season that has had a lot of ups and downs is wild to me.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
You love an innovative thinker? He's like a MacGyver. You love someone who can adapt on the fly? Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I mean, he's literally bullseye, so it makes sense. But I'm still astonished by the philosophy he was able to get with that tooth spit. Really astonishing stuff. I agree. It was really affecting to see the sorrow. The way that he said, because when she invokes Foggy's name, he of course remembers. And the way that he said... escape the past, do we?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Like, this whole fallacy of the idea dating all the way back to his therapy when he was a kid that you could ever really move beyond any sort of perilous or damaging circumstance that was just so deeply upsetting. And then, of course, you know, we remember season three of Daredevil and the way that...
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Fisk manipulated Dex in order to bring him under his thrall and into his employ in the way that Dex then rebelled against Fisk in the, you know, multi-showdown. Everybody, including Vanessa, just sort of standing there in the same room at the end. A climactic brawl, like, turned on Fisk because of Julie and what he had learned while keeping her frozen corpse in the passenger seat of his car.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Greetings and welcome to House of R, a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. It is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to our favorite Freeport, Red Hook, but also back into the House of R. Joining me today, reminding me that there's nothing in this world a good cup of coffee can't fix. It's my favorite punisher, Joanna Robinson.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
We all have sentimental keepsakes, okay? Indeed, yeah. You collect posters. Dex keeps frozen corpses around. It's fine.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I do. The way that he invoked Fisk, like, is he a part of this? And Vanessa saying, it's not about him. We're not in touch right now. He's off in another show. You probably haven't watched it, but it's not about him. It's about me. It's about what I need. And the way that Dex said rightly, like he's always a part of this, that looming specter of the kingpin.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
It was a good tonal note to open the episode on.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I was thinking about doing some Hawkeye revisitation, you know, get a little Yelena update in my life. Oh, I love that. We're near Thunderbolts.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Exactly. I'm really just hungry. I want some sriracha on my mac and cheese. Joanna, I'd like you to now travel back through time with me to the present. And I'd like you to join me at Metro General where Matt Murdock has awoken, as expected, from his gunshot wound. And Heather and Kirsten are there. And the toughest thing ever is about to happen when Heather sees her boyfriend Matt Murdock wake.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Sunday night, Monday, we'll see. Early in the week, top of the week. Nice. The Watch, we'll be checking in on Mondays. On the Prestige TV podcast, Joe and Rob will be checking in on Wednesday nights, Pacific time, Thursday mornings if you're on the East Coast. And Button Mash, Ben and Daniel will be checking in with a gamer's guide on Thursdays. We will have coverage across the ringer.com.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And she goes over and she reaches out. And Matt Murdock, who... can smell what people have eaten days before. A little honey cake. Honey cake. Who can see them wreathed in fire, who can hear their heartbeats, who knows later in this episode that Buck Cashman is coming for him based on the pattern of his footwear.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Does not recognize his own girlfriend who he has been having passionate shower sex with for months on end and instead says with the gentlest little yearning tendril voice, Karen?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
It was probably over in episode eight when she was like, yeah, you know, Fisk is going to just point out to everyone that vigilantes are dangerous. He's got my vote. I mean, it's definitely over later when she joins his administration, but this probably didn't help. Probably didn't help.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
That's a great question. I mean, the rise... Of Daniel Blake and Buck Cashman as an enforcing duo. We're not really going to spend much time today talking about that intimidation scene in the middle of the night with the council, but the way that they work with each other. I mean, that could be season two.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
He went from enthusiastic dipshit who tells his boss he was high on ketamine and accidentally let spill the city secrets to genuinely intimidating... mini boss with a quickness.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Glad it happened. Overdue. Thanks, journalism. Matt gets a little sip of water and then he's immediately ready to dive into detective mode. Kirsten and Heather both have strong reactions to this, but there is a distinction, right? When Matt is running through his questions, is Dex still at large? Okay, Vanessa ordered the hit. Foggy knew he had to win. Oh, Melvinese.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Kirsten mentions the motion to dismiss. Kirsten is like, Matt, I'm worried. Later she'll say, I'm really glad you're okay, but we gotta have a major talk when you get through this. But she at least engages. She gives him some information. Heather's response to this is just, She's beside herself. She goes to the chair in the corner. She puts her face in her hand. She's sighing deeply.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
She is not aligned with Matt, and she is clocking that now in a way that is no longer something either of them can ignore. And I guess to their credit, they both just say it pretty plainly to each other. Matt tells her, like, I'm sorry that you don't believe me. But this is true. And then she appears to just quiet quit her relationship with Matt Murdock.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
What a great website. It is a full court press. We love The Last of Us. We can't wait to cover the rest of the season. Check out our episode one pods if you haven't yet. Those are all waiting for you already on the fades.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
She's like, maybe... She's like, I'll see you later. I'll see you later. I'm going to go join the mayor's administration.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Okay. Okay. a pro Heather take at the end of the season. I mean, great stuff.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I think that was why I was totally content to see the white suit return, you know, and it's a black tie ball. Let's get fancy. One and done. Yes, I am dismayed, as you surely anticipated I would be, that we are back in full two. Of course, comics accurate. Kingpin in the white suit era.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I am an enthusiast of the charcoal suit Kingpin television persona and always have been, so that is upsetting. But yes, the symbolic resonance of that was certainly delightful. We have a lot of ties to the past with Wilson and Vanessa. Vanessa. In the season overall and in these last couple episodes because this moment, their version of the hospital debrief is...
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
vanessa taking a drink to steady herself saying she's shaken trying to muster the courage to tell wilson after they had this breakthrough we've kind of said it all to each other oh i kept one more thing from you and that thing is i violated your season three finale pledge where you told matt murdoch you'd never harm foggy nelson or karen page and then you went to the diner with him this season and said i kept my promise it wasn't me uh
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Same. The best. I'm like despondent we only have six left. I know. But also thrilled we have six more to talk about. And then at the same time, we will at long last be diving back into Andor because season two of Andor starts next week. Three episodes of Andor are going to be airing every week, and we will be there to cover them.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Fisk is like, the only thing I care about is that you're okay. And by the way, we're a long way from where we were a few episodes ago when we were distancing ourselves for that. Fisk is like, try to. We're kingpin and we're queenpin again. Let's own it.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah. I, so it's interesting in terms of like, you know, thinking back to our double premiere pod where we observed all of the art around her and it's not just like, oh, you are and always have been a gallery curator, an art enthusiast.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
No, you are actually, this is a tactical. Yeah. It was nice to see how all of those little strands of Red Hook fit together here. This is my Daredevil born again version of me saying repeatedly, as we talked about DNA on Yellow Jackets, I am not a scientist. I'm not a legal expert. So I guess my question on this was like, wait, it's not like, wait, does nobody know this?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I guess I'm confused by that. This idea that Foggy revealing that Red Hook is a Freeport
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
would she the way that vanessa explains it to dex is like cast an unwanted light on her business right so clearly she thinks this is not something that she wants brought to the fore but my i guess my question is like who is this a secret from maybe other crime lords but like presumably governments and legal bodies but it feels like it feels like it was lost to time similar to like
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah, I think so, given that we then later saw the other truck jacking and that connected to the families all under this umbrella of crime that they're seeking to control. Yeah. Be interested to see how, you know, I liked the way Matt declared it when he and Heather, when he, I just did the opposite thing, when he and Karen are piecing it all together at the end.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Like they're trying to, the Fisks are trying to build and control their own city state. Yeah. And the way that Fisk says it here, it's like, you've been moving millions. We can move billions. Like, I'm the mayor now. And, you know, he put it to Vanessa. He said, I ran to save the city, but opportunities present themselves. Like, this idea of justifying his descent back into his true self.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I also love the diner scene at the beginning of the season. And so many of those ideas came back for both Matt and Fisk here, right? Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Here at the House of R, we will be doing our Andor deep dives, and they will be deep. I mean, they will be deep. How deep? Who can say? But Tony Gilroy knows.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Anyway. I know. Yeah. It's very, very painful. That whole plot line and sequence is just incredibly dismaying. When Fisk said to Matt at the beginning of the season, let's say I followed a road less traveled and at its end I found a new man. And then when he's talking to Matt about himself, like, I love a man who rises above his nature. Good luck with that, Murdoch.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
You know, we always love talking about whether it's Frank and Matt or Fisk and Matt, like, how these characters relate to each other or differ from each other in those dark mirrors. Like, this idea that not only...
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Was this obviously always going to prove to be a lie and just a delaying of the rise of the inevitable true self and true nature that Fisk has always simultaneously feared that I'm not a monster moment from season one with Fisk and Vanessa that we love. But that he was always going to use these holes of power to... channel and heighten his present tendencies.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
most likely, is when those will be hitting your feeds. And the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, will be checking in on Andor on Wednesdays. Obviously, Chris and Andy will be talking about their favorite piece of Star Wars over on The Watch as well. What a great time to be us. Jo, we're also only two weeks away from Thunderbolts. Thrilling. The most important film of the year, Thunderbolts? Exactly. Cool.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
What did you think? He's unfolding this safer streets initiative, you know, first in a smaller room with his trusted advisors and the not-so-trusted advisors that he is attempting to smoke out and sauce out, and then eventually, of course, to the city at large. The performance, like, in this scene, it... It was hysterical, not in a ha-ha funny, but in a like uncontrollable mania. Fervor, yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yes, as he's talking about no body cams, no due process, no warrant, lethal force. I encourage it, you know, once the bridge is closed, the tunnel's closed, he's going to bring in a con ed guy to force a blackout of the city that he will then pretend was someone else's sabotage.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
He is relishing putting the city that, to your point from a minute ago, he is claiming to try to protect and save and nurture into an active state of harm so that he can then fix the problem that he caused. And this is, again, a textbook and a playbook that... In our current moment in time, this is just so upsetting to watch.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And I thought with everything, with both Sheila and Gallo, you have these two different versions of somebody who seemed to be an opponent inside, right? Sheila is more like... I tried. I tried to say all these things to you. I tried to point these things out the way that she says to him later when she briefly thinks he's walking it back. Like, well, that's totally fair.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Oh, sometimes our response can be like a worse sin than the original offense itself. but then succumbs and perpetuates the corruption and rot.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah. I mean, we hear from Matt at the end of this episode, Matt Murdock, Daredevil, the man without fear, invoking that kind of language for the city. The city without fear. Right. Well, the oppositional force of the Fisk administration as a tyrant without fear, an administration without fear. Totally. Totally.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Just so. Cool story. Let me ask you a quick question. How can the people follow along?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
They're not fearing that any challenge will ultimately do anything but crumble, either because of the desire to survive, self-preservation, like what we see from Sheila, or because Fisk believes that he will prove stronger, that he will either be able to use sheer force or or cunning or money or any other lever of power to remove an obstacle from his way.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
So saying to Sheila, like using Sheila to eliminate Gallo, these two obstacles in different forms is like, from his perspective, from Fisk's perspective, just perfect poetic justice in all respects. Like to say to her, well, you know, in business, there's always a tipping point. And he's like theoretically talking about the city and the state of play right now.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
But he's, of course, saying to her, like, this is a tipping point for you. Here's the test. Are you going to pass or are you going to fail?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Were you ever expecting to go full Red Viper on Disney Plus?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah. Disney. Okay. Some real like waterfalls of blood from neck and head areas as well. Star-struck stuff. Very, very, very, very, very violent.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
You just described it. You're just podcasting.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
What can I say? Oh, God. Joe. Yeah. It's not just Gallo. It's not just Sheila on the stretch. It's Buck Cashman. Fisk is like, listen, I don't agree. I don't think that it's optically challenging that Matt Murdock saved me. I think it's great news because a dead hero the lawyer of Hell's Kitchen. How dare he invoke Hell's Kitchen here in this finale when we have spent nary a second there.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Frankly outrageous. Better than a live vigilante. He's sending Buck Gift bag, teddy bear. Syringe. Syringe. Did you think of our beloved Misty Quigley, 00 Quigley? I mean, anytime we see somebody wielding a potentially lethal syringe, I now find it impossible in a yellow jacket to not think of Misty.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah. Not even in the room? Okay. Yeah, I agree. It would have been so easy. I mean, Matt, you know, spends much of his life processing, not wanting to kill people, including in this episode. So he would not have done this, but you know, if it had been like Frank Castle, that door you walk in and open syringes, you're getting into the neck, man.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Because it transitions us nicely in positions as well for Daredevil Born Again After Dark, which is really what I'm hoping season two will be. Steve has suggested Cash Poundman.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Great stuff. Chicka Cherry Cola didn't really last, but Cash Poundman might. Joanna, it's time for the Punisher to return. Again. Matt, here in... Pound Cashman's little pitter-patter in the halls escapes the hospital. Cash Poundman.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Cash Poundman escapes the hospital, makes his way, hospital gown still on, this will become important, back to his apartment where he senses that Frank Castle is waiting for him. And they share just a vintage little exchange, high comedy, love the repartee between these two always. Frank says... You know, you're a wall-to-wall asshole. Power goes out.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
You got nothing to make a goddamn pot of coffee in this house. To which Matt replies, well, not everyone lives in a fallout shelter, Frank. Is that a new costume? What do they call you now? Nightgown man? What about you? After shaving a haircut? That all for me? No, it's not, Matt. It's for Karen. Though... I would have kept the beard and the long hair.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Oh my God, I love that. When Matt got up to suit up later and Frank said, you're not going to do it with your ass hanging out and Matt gave him the finger, in the running for my favorite moment of the season. Just sensational. Just sensational. How do you think Matt got home?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
You know, maybe just, like, tidal knot. There's a blackout. Everybody's in a panic. The looting's about to begin. Yeah, scrubs would have been good.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I still haven't started. I'm really excited to dive in.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Joe, Matt says to Frank, like, I thought this wasn't your fight, right? That's where we left it when we last gathered in your fallout shelter and you threw a mug of water at me.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Maybe, yeah. Or like the one before. Yeah. So give Frank an episode to shave and get a haircut. Yeah. Slap on some effort. So that he's ready for Karen. Frank's still not sure, right? Even inside of this episode, he's going to go on a little journey with this with what his decisions and steps are going to be. But he says, I made a promise. I made a promise that I'd get you out alive.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
That's because of Karen, as we will soon find out. Absolutely wonderful stuff. And then it's time for that really horrifying battle that we described. All of the blood, all of the violence. Frank's like, fan full of shitbags if they come up here. I'm not playing patty cake with these fanboys. And this is, as always, the eternal debate between Frank and Matt.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Frank has one approach, and it's a lethal approach, and Matt does not want that and implores him multiple times in this conflict. Can I say? Not to do it.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Delightful stuff. Here's the other thing. It's the Friendly Neighborhood spoiler warning. We're talking about the finale. We're talking about the entire season of Daredevil Born Again. If it happened in the Netflix Daredevilverse, it could come up today. If it's ever happened in the MCU, it could come up today. If it's ever happened in a comic, it could come up today.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
They find the bullet, the casing with the punisher.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I mean, it kind of makes the same point, right? When he like turns to the other guy and fires, it's like, what about him? Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I think he's been a gravelly grunter at his core for... For some time. I will say he was taking a lot of, like, close range. I mean, later with the task force, they say, you know, non-lethals.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
But still, he's taking, like, kind of concussive level force off of his torso. And, you know, he gets a pretty gnarly neck wound in this stretch.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And it was us. Anything else about the Cole-Hector reveal or the arguing between Matt and Frank or the violence of this exchange before the grenade comes in to blow up our least favorite apartment? Here's to new living quarters for Matt Murdock in season two.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
That's the Friendly Neighborhood spoiler warning. Yeah, it is. But you know what? We need one more thing. I
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Let me just be very real with you. Yeah. They jump off the balcony. They escape the grenade. They have a cute little, like, you're an asshole, I know moment. And then a car pulls up. The headlights bathe our screen. And out steps Karen Page. Yeah. They both look at her. And then Matt, as we will later understand, hearing Frank's heartbeat, turns and looks at Frank. And I felt...
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
so alive and happy and understood watching this. Yeah. Not only because of what you said at the beginning, like I love a love triangle. And there were, when we get to the next, like the next scene at Frank's shelter at his lair, the way that in various moments, Matt and Frank both eat, they each feel like the third wheel.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
They each feel like the interloper and something very private and like, it's so good with the other two. But like beyond that, which is very charged and powerful and important, like, that happened with Frank and Karen and Matt in this episode took us back to a place of like they understand why the characters are important to each other and to us.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And it just felt like we were watching the show that we thought we were going to get to watch and it felt right and good. Yeah. That was so happy.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
It me and 95% of Los Angeles drinking oat milk only. Love it. Great stuff. All right, Joe, it is time to pod and we are going to begin as always with our opening snapshot. Episode nine. Straight to hell. I feel like you should say it in your Fisk Vanessa voice. I feel like that's the only way you can say it. Episode 9.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Love it. I hope this is very present in season two. It should be the story of season two.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
We have to. Just hearing Matt at the end of this episode invoke God and when he thought God was punishing him and then what he thought his purpose was was like... hey, it's a nugget. Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah, it's incredible. Okay. We do have to expand that list, though. Three is not enough. We have to go, I think, at least to four and probably to five because we have to make room for, come on. I mean, we have to make room for Buck and Blake. Sorry, Pound Cashman. Cash Poundman. Struggling with it. It didn't lock into place for me the way I wanted it to. Obviously, we need time for our –
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
beautiful, brutal boys there. Not to be confused with the bruised boys. You just looped Sean Fennessy in with... I don't know that there's any looping Sean into... Cash Poundman and Daniel Blake. Born again. And then, you know, we'll want... We'll certainly want some... Vanessa. Vanessa. And Fisk, of course. But that sounds like a great season two to me.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. Hopefully we can get him in some form.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Before we can make our way toward everybody really declaring that they need an army. Yeah. We got to clean up. We got to clean up. We got to stitch up. It means we're going to Frank's bunker. So the first dynamic that we get is Frank over watching Matt and Karen in a mirror. I mean, come on, guys. Stitching up his wound. And this...
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
moment between matt and karen just tell me everything that you thought and felt watching this show because it's the first time we as we understand it's the first time they've seen each other or were interacted spoken since that moment of parting of karen passing over the devil horn for matt to finger at dex's sentencing like they're back together and how did it feel electric honestly
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
It's like the one real note on the episode that when he said, how's it look? And she said, well, you've been prettier. It's like, no, he hasn't.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Directed, once again, by Aaron Moorhead and Justin Benson. Written by Heather Belson and Dario Scardapane. Runtime, 59 minutes. This checked in at a full chunky hour. Chunky. Robust. Robust. Joe, before we dive in, we're going to be going broadly chronologically through the finale today. Give us your quick thoughts, little table setters here, amuse-bouche of takes on three things.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
The blackout was a nice cover to just make the entire episode actually quite dark. When the lights went on the next morning, I was like,
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
That's when we get the great, nothing in the world like a cup of coffee you can't fix, and then we'll offer Matt the cup at Mac. We'll say, God, oat milk, just iconic all-around wonderful stuff.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
But then Matt, like the way the camera looks at Matt in this moment and he's in the background and he's sitting and he's watching them and he'll mention to – he'll bring up to Karen later their heartbeats and what he can clearly feel and sense between them. I thought that look on Karen's face, just that – the expression as she looked at Frank and smiled was like so charged and powerful.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I just loved absolutely every part of this. And then as is often the case with these characters, we move from the state of – real connection and depth of history and affection and longing and active lust into, let me tell you why I'm disappointed in you. And that's like really the great magic of these dynamics. You know, like Matt and Karen start game planning right away.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Matt's filling Karen in on what happened. Vanessa, the hit motion to dismiss. She's like, dude, Files and storage. Let me be your eyes.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
So I got this. Great stuff. Absolutely wonderful. But Frank's not going to go with, right? He says the Inspector Gadget bullshit isn't for him. And Karen just says flat out, I don't believe you. I don't believe that you don't care. And the reply that he makes is specifically about her. I do care, right? You called me, you asked me a favor, and I did it.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I thought that was like the closest he had come to just admitting that.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Love these guys. Love them. So good. Freeport reveal. We already talked about a lot of this. Okay. Blake and the council and then the storage locker. On the heart, right? Yeah. Okay.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
The finale itself. Yeah. The season overall. Yeah. and your feelings, anticipation level, relationship to the impending 2026 release of Daredevil Born Again Season 2, based on how Season 1 concluded? Yeah, great question. Thank you so much for asking me. Hey, you bet.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
This is truly a Joe moment. My goodness. This is a crossover you deserve. It is. Truly.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Just the look on Matt's face. Just the... I don't know, like a moment for him to just... not be subsumed by his grief, but to smile in reflection and remembrance, like, to, like, know a moment of joy in thinking back on his friend. It felt like maybe the first time in a long time since he had been able to do that.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah, just think about, like... It was just the way Karen took his hand and, like, a little bridge.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Like you said, they just, they actually know each other. And... They had plenty of moments where they didn't know something about each other, and that was the source of great tension. But there are people who have worked through a lot of that and have just such a depth of history and shared experience.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
It's like it's just, you know, I think what you said earlier, I agree with, and we talked about this a lot, obviously, at the beginning of the season. I am still interested in, like, new relationships and what it means as you go through your life to have to try to build something new with someone else.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
But if you're trying to put it in place of this other thing that we cherished, like, it's really a sin, I think. So it was just to have the authentic article here. Boy, did it feel right and good. You know, a little thing that I really loved in this exchange, we think back to that conversation between them on the bench at Dex's sentencing.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And the way he's here, Matt's like, I can't believe I didn't look. I didn't, you know, and Karen... let's move off the hook. She's like, we were all hurting. And, you know, the way that that idea back at the beginning of the season was kind of like, A cudgel to wield against him. A condemnation. Yeah. I was in pain, too, and you weren't there for me.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Like, you weren't the only one who was going through something. But here, she reminds him of their shared hurt as a balm. Like, a way to say, it's okay. We don't all have to be perfect all the time. I thought that really showed the progress of where they were.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And also just like something happens that tests your own
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
conviction right like yeah Matt was in peril and Karen knew she wanted to make sure he was okay like period right and sometimes you need those moments of clarity not that she ever would have not wanted Matt to be okay but it's like that was just the driving force I will call Frank yeah I will send him to Matt and meanwhile Heather's like Matt's in peril I'm kind of done here
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And he seeks out the task force, Joe, the fanboys. He heard them talk about the location of where they were going to meet, rendezvous one. And he goes, the way that they responded to his appearance, oh, shit, it's actually him, Frank Castle. It's the Punisher. And then we get another just unbelievably violent sequence of Frank killing a ton of people.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
It's a lot. We got an ax to the face here. Did you think of Lottie? I'm always thinking about Lottie.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I totally agree. So this is like this Powell-Punisher stretch and the Fisk-Gallo stretch are intercut with each other. I mean, they were both... Disturbing in different ways, but I agree. I thought the Powell Punisher scene was really riveting. And the way, like, the emotion in Frank's voice as he's saying to them, like, you don't understand the thing that you have co-opted at all. Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
admire me you think you know my pain you think you know my loss like i gotta chill from that it's just it was fantastic and then he just went into full sue from survivor season one final tribal mode i do know this reference i won't fucking piss on you if you were on fire you got that
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
So true. Gallo, Fisk... We're just having the mountain and the viper here in a Daredevil episode. What do you want to say about this? The second that Gala was brought to a space covered in plastic wrap.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
A moose boosh. So see, this is why, I mean, there are a lot of reasons why the bad babies are the best. But that's why. That's why the bad made me do the best.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Daniel Blake, I was thinking multiple times in this episode. He's got so many, like, Oscob vibes to me. Like, he really belongs in Penguin. I hope he makes his way to Penguin Season 2 somehow. It seems to me like even though Fisk is trying to show this new personal army, hey, I'm – not only do I care about you, I'm right there literally with you.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I want to get my hands as dirty as anyone in order to do this thing, to protect this thing, to build this thing, to tell myself and you that I'm doing all of that. Yeah. I thought that they seemed very disturbed by what they were witnessing. And, like, perhaps this was a miscalculation on his part. I also think that this is just kind of stupid. Like... There's so many witnesses to this.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah, exactly. Like a ritual that's meant to maybe solidify and cement allegiance ends up leaving you vulnerable, and that feels foolish to me. But I guess he's just banking on the fact that the threat, it's not only show them what you're made of, it's and imply what will happen if they stray, and he's banking on that. I guess so. This was a very gross television scene. It was disgusting.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I got to say, before even the squashing of the head, the sounds, like of the compressing bones. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Oh, boy. Matt and Karen. Yeah. Forging a plan. They go to Red Hook. crawling with task force and Karen just implores Matt not to do it. Don't be foolish. It'll be Josie's all over again. I love the way she put this. Like you'll either die or you will kill. It's not just about the mortal peril you would be in. It's about the thing you might be moved to do to someone else that you don't want to do.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I totally agree. And I think this scene also, obviously, in addition to forging that thread to the past, opened a door to the future because Matt's like, you're right. Yeah. I'm not going to act for Ashley, but I do believe that we can beat him. I do believe that we can win. We need an army of our own.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I felt pretty sure as a trained viewer of the MCU that we would then be seeing any number of characters, but like specifically Luke Cage and or Jessica Jones in the stinger of this episode. And that did not happen. Instead, we got... Anthony!
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Totally fair. I am obviously thrilled by what this promises, though, which is exactly that, that Luke Cage and Jessica Jones will be back. Will you take Danny Rand? That is a more complex one. Not you, Danny. All right. That is a more complex one. Joe, we end the episode on these like dueling declarations of intent. We have the Fisk pledge. The lights have gone back on in the morning.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
He has invited Heather to be his commissioner of mental health. She accepts gladly. Disturbing stuff. Very disappointed in Heather. And then Fisk addresses... Before he does...
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Sir, sir, excuse me. Do you think she was just going to be like, you should be sitting down rather than standing and leering and leaning?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Sheila. Fisk just, you know, we've been talking about it all season. He goes fully into the devil's reign. Like, vigilante-ism is outlawed. Institutes martial law. Curfew at 8 lies about everything that happened the night before, right? Uses the attempt on his life to say the sabotaging of the grid, Gallo abandoned you in your moment of need, all of that.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I love New York. Disturbing stuff, obviously. Matt's pledge. He's doing what we've really wanted all season, which is like processing what he's been going through. And of course, he's doing it with Karen. Talking about God, talking about his feelings, talking about his insecurities and the things he fears about himself.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And he's doing it with Karen, a person who knows him, a person he trusts, a person he loves, a person who's not been afraid over the years to call him out on his bullshit. And it was beautiful. It was wonderful. Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I was like, the only thing that's missing from the scene is him being like, and I probably shouldn't have just pulled out the white tiger mask without talking to Hector about it first. Otherwise, it was perfect. 9.9 out of 10. Point one notes.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Oh, my God. I'm glad you said that. That's really what I wanted to do the entire pod with you about, which is like how this entire plot ended up hinging on the fact that Foggy's just a really good lawyer and that's a bad one. Mine sucks. It's like, wow, Foggy found out this whole thing because he's a great lawyer. Oh, Foggy. Good legacy. So, little Maddie Murdoch.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Not the first mention of fisting gloves on this season of coverage.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
How many people do you think learned something important in that moment? In the episode four through seven superlatives conversation? Muse was meaningful. After all. Muse did matter. Muse mattered. He taught us all so much. Okay. The way that Matt moves from reflecting about his youth into like this more present circumstance, the darkness.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
He says, my mistake was thinking I was immune to the darkness and I let it creep inside me. I let the dark power me. I threw Poindexter off that roof. Karen, I wanted to kill him. Like the way that he said that, Karen, I wanted to kill him. And, you know... It made me think of a couple things from the beginning of the season, but also just the beginning of the show.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Like, we talked about in our Top Moments episode when Father Lantum and Matt in season one of the original Daredevil series were talking about, like, the idea of the devil and do you believe in the devil? And to Matt, it was, of course, in theory about fish. but, like, also it was about the thing inside of himself and the symbol that he would end up adopting. Yeah.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
So it's always been there with Matt, and to have that, like, resurface here as active text was very satisfying. And then, of course, in that diner conversation with Fisk and Matt at the beginning of the season, like, the way that Matt talked about the thing that he feared in himself and how it had surfaced, like, a line was crossed.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I felt that I lost the privilege, and despite the good that I was doing, I was causing damage. So for Karen to, like, hear this and then use Foggy, whose loss caused this, to say, like, Foggy knew who you were, every part of you, right? And he loved it all. Whatever you want to call yourself, whatever's behind the mask, behind your eyes, that's wrath, that's mercy, that's the dark and the light.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
He knew all of it, all of it. He knew you. I do, too.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I thought this was beautiful. I love everything you just said. The... The wrath and mercy idea, like that's the duality. It's not just like a mission statement for this episode or this arc. It's like the Matt Murdock experience, as we've been talking about back from our preview pod and why we love the character.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Oh, God. You know what Fisk said to Matt at the beginning of the season? Like, it's hard to come to terms with the violent nature. That's the Matt Murdock story is him grappling with that. And he needs help. He needs to be able to sit on the bench outside of the church and talk it through. He needs to have Karen wrap her hands around him and bring him back into the light.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Like, that's part of why the character is so meaningful and impactful. Like, he's so solitary often and feels that he has to be. But, like, really at the end of the day, he needs the people he loves to help him through. Yeah. And it's just like, it was very important to see that here. I really loved it.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
And then like a lot of, they walk out into the room full of a very odd mix of people, as you know, and Matt basically does a ADR voiceover to the audience instead of talking to the people in the room. Um,
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
What else about the end of the episode? We already talked about Fisk and Vanessa going through their pen of prisoners.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I guess, I mean, it's not going to go well in either circumstance, but I would probably rather just be strangled and dead. No. Okay. I just want it to be over. I don't want the mangled arm and the screaming and, you know, everyone in all the pens is watching. So much drama. And then I'm also then probably just still my neck is snapped after that anyway. Why not just cut right to the point?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
You know, it's... I want more Dex. More Dex. We got most of the kind of like, you know, the faces we would expect to see, right? Buck, obviously like the toast and the smiles for... Cash Poundman, Daniel Blake, Sheila. Really still going through it. Your beautiful, beloved Dax. We see Angela. Hector's niece is here, so more white tiger action to come in season two. When he says... Maybe?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
That was interesting. Yeah, all of us. Heather? Heather, Kirsten, Frank, Karen. We see some... of the task force members who were shooting looters and then pulling their hats down to pretend they had been mass vigilantes. Great stuff. Good God. And that's it. So we're heading on to season two. We're going to get the defenders back together, get the band back together.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I need that, like, promise of a dinner in Jersey City to bear fruit. Yeah. Now, obviously, she's got other things going on. She's in California. Young Avengers things. Young Avengers champions. Yeah. But a little bit of a, oh, I came home and you guys have put a street level team of vigilantes together in the face of Fisk's martial law. She'd do a Yelena Belova swing by. Exactly.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
A Yelena Belova swing by. Exactly. Come in, team up, help out. Oh my God. And then go make a Young Avengers movie.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Absolutely wonderful to think about. I hope we get that in season two. I'm excited. I'm excited. I'll probably make the mistake of picking it really high in the hype draft again.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Two weeks away. Wow. Two weeks. Great stuff. We did it. We covered another season of television. We did do it. I guess if we amend our list of season two demands, we had five. We make it a list of six. Go back to Hell's Kitchen. That's the last thing.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I do. I mean, some stuff went down in the stairwell there.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Maybe just like half a block away. It's good to get outside and stretch your legs or so I hear. All right, Jo. There's nothing in this world a good cup of coffee can't fix and there's nothing in this world potting with you can't fix. You're the best. I love you. Darling, I feel the same way. Thank yous. It's time to thank everyone. Thank you to today and this season.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Steve Allman for producing this podcast. John Richter for all of his work on the video aspect of this podcast. Thank you today to Oscar De La Luz for helping us out with the video production as well. And of course, as always, to Arjuna Ramgopal for his production supervision and Jomia Deneron for his work on the socials. Until next time. Yeah. We love New York. The fungus loves to.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah, I don't like chewing pills, as you know, from our White Lotus conversations.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I really loved the finale. I liked episode eight quite a bit, and I thought this was even stronger and just a wonderful way to propel us forward into a season two that will be crafted in full by the folks who gave us a strong end to this season. So that's really exciting. I'm excited. They pulled me back in. I'm quite looking forward to season two and to the Punisher special.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Who's to say? I don't stand with Frank Castle on the pill chewing, but I do stand with him on the deep and abiding love for a good cup of coffee. That's true. We are here, in case you can't tell, to talk about the finale of Daredevil Born Again Season 1. But... Before we try to figure out whether they are, in fact, calling Matt Nightgown Man now, some quick programming reminders.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I think to the point in Katie's email, which is totally valid, that it all worked for me so well, I think, because I'm such a sucker for the John Barenthal, Frank Castle performance in general and just will take literally any of it that I can get. But also because we weren't with... Frank on his own.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I mean, frankly, it's an area where I think a lot of the valid critiques of the season, which is just we never spent time with anybody away from Matt or away from Fisk, really. Um... worked in this sense because the return of Frank was really oriented through his relationship with Red and through Matt's point of view of Frank and Frank's point of view of Matt.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I loved the Frank stuff in this episode. I can't wait to talk about the Frank, Karen, Matt scenes. I just thought it was absolute magic and it gave me that feeling in my chest and my heart that I just absolutely love. I thought it was great. I just was like... So happy that Karen was back.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Yeah. I mean, it's just adrenaline, maybe? Yeah, maybe. Show a deep-rooted love. Who can say? Maybe both. So I loved all of that. I thought that the Fisk stuff in the finale was... so disturbing in our current world that, you know, you can't help but toast how effective it was. And in general, just really liked the finale and I'm looking forward to season two. I'm with you.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
I think that the fact that the end of the season was so strong made me more frustrated with the parts of the season that weren't. I do not run Marvel or any studio. Don't run Disney. So who am I to comment?
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
But the fact that they knew what they were doing originally wasn't working and knew they needed to reset and then found something successful in the reset but still kind of put out the Frankensteinian, cobbled together, we'll save what we can and we'll introduce what we can. I guess there are bottom line reasons to do that. You do sort of wish that.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
In a world where reality didn't factor in and certain decisions didn't have to ultimately be made that we could have just really started over and done this a certain way from scratch. But anyway, fun finale. Can't wait to talk about it. Should we dive right in? Let's just do it. Deep dive! Joanna, I would like you to travel through time with me to one year ago. Okay. When Vanessa... Vanessa...
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Recruited. You're a guy. Benjamin Dex Poindexter. Bullseye. We see it. We see Vanessa visit Dex at the psych ward. He is... Boy, he is in a state. He is there serving his time. He is pilled to the gills. He is a shell.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
He is a shell. And, you know, she... This is part of her pitch to him. Like, you can get your mind back. You can get your sense of self back. And she says it with genuine tenderness and empathy in her voice, but she is... without doubt, there for a mission of her own and a purpose of her own, and Dex is a means.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
We hear that just we get this little like tossed away line about, you know, the FBI corruption to deem all that. Shout out Agent Nadim. Shout out season three of Daredevil. Shout out season three of Daredevil. The source of the Wilson Fisk acquittal and how that could be a pathway to Dex and his freedom as well. one little wrinkle, he's got to agree to kill dumb Benny and foggy Ford Vanessa.
House of R
'Daredevil: Born Again' Episode 9 Deep Dive
Going to do these in two little buckets because we're heading into a big stretch where we've got Last of Us and Andor happening at the same time. Yes. Here's the slate. Going to run through it very quickly. House of R deep dives for The Last of Us, Mondays. Mondays, baby. Midnight, boys. Pew, pew. We'll be potting in instant reaction fashion to The Last of Us on Monday.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Greetings and welcome to House of R, a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, here to remind me that there's a future here for those who dare. It's my favorite Bureau of Standards rapid riser, Joanna Robinson.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And then I guess I had to confront the fact that maybe, like, my kink is watching Deirdre defend Cyril to his mother. It was, like, really good. It was fantastic. Like, I just loved everything about this. The game ends now. I mean, she brought fucking Uncle Harlow into it. She's like, I saw the ISB file. Cut the crap.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I'm just like, I love a dessert. Let me mash it up and just like inject it into my veins via IV. Those cakes did look good. Cyril saying, what are you saying? I came up from the cakes. That was so fucking funny. They're the best. I love so many of the characters on the show, but this is just, this is actually genius watching these characters together. Great stuff.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I've warmed to it considerably on rewatches, and it's got a lot to offer. It's like one of those things where in Andor, it's all relative. If you're dealing with Shakespeare and certain other plot lines, it's just a lot to measure up to. But I actually I think I come down on like the side of appreciating that tonal variance.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And then that little like Cyril kind of being summoned, like called by the sound of his mother's laughter and going in like, what's happening here? And then he gets a compliment. And the way that he looked at Deirdre with like, Adoration. Oh my God, you did it. That was just incredible. What a first three episodes, Jo.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Or that. Or that. Or that. Do you want to share a favorite Easter egg before we go? Joanna Robinson.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Sounds great. I love it. That's a great pick. We already talked about, I think, my favorites are Pizos and Yavin 4, so instead here I will go... Khafrein being the password, Khafrein, when obviously that's the Rogue One...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
You can watch it on video, of course, on Spotify or on the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And you can see the smile of appreciation on Tony Gilroy's face every time they, like, mention a specific thing that they love about the show. I've just... Made me really happy.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Tivic, not long for this world. Okay. All right, we did it. Thank you to the team, a big crew today. Once again, Steve Allman, John Richter, as always, for producing this episode. Cameron Dinwiddie, back with us for the first time in a while today to help with the video edit. Hello, Cameron. Thank you. Arjuna Ramgopal, as always, for his production supervision. And Jomi Adeneron for his work.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
on the social media. Joanna. Mallory. It was so good to be back with you to talk about Andorra. It was just like the cakes. Like, they're lovely. And so was potting with you.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Let's start with a theft of the tie Avenger, because before we go to Yavin, we open on the sign our test facility 73 where our guy Cassian is decked out. As an Imperial test pilot, he is there to steal a prototype. And I just want to say RIP to this sweet little droid buddy who got blasted in this sequence.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I have no RIPs to give to any of the troopers, though I did enjoy how they were in the background muttering about the way shifts are scheduled and genuinely think that something like that or Naya telling Cassie and she needs exactly 12 minutes. Those are the kinds of details that imbue Andor with this level of texture and precision that's
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It just makes it feel so fully and richly like an actual real world or many real worlds.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Incredible stuff, given that it was basically just like something people were holding up. I know. Not really relevant beyond that, but again, the level of care and attention to detail, unmatched.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, and it's fun to think about which parts of his evolution feel like really radical and which feel very organic. Like the heart of a thief... even though this is a distinct thing to do and a reason to do it, positions Cassian to, like, inhabit a play space like this in a way that maybe would be much harder for other people.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We get to see him right away, like, interact with the person he is, his inside man here at this test facility, Naya. And this scene was incredible. First of all, they, like, workshop a very quick cover story. He's excited. he doesn't want to go to bed. He's up. And she says, we started flirting. He's like, I like that.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And then another, one of her colleagues like walks by later and they're whispering and Cassian's like, what was that about? She said, you're cute. And one of the first things that I texted you and Chris about these first three episodes was like about how horny they were. Yeah. Um,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We all have our areas of specialization. Yeah. Know your strengths. Yeah. She is... justifiably afraid. And they have a really beautiful conversation where Cassian is encouraging her and soothing her, but in a way that feels like so illuminating about where we are on the, the, the past, the full rebellion, but also about him specifically. Right. And his role in this rebellion.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So some of it is just like, we get this gorgeous vintage Tony Yoroi prose. Two of the highlights for me were, I'm so nervous about, Nervous is good. Keeps us awake. And then I think the collective favorite basically from everyone who watched, you're coming home to yourself. You've become more than your fear. Let that protect you. Again, we're about to do like a Thai Avenger thing.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Over on – I just realized I'm wearing my Watch shirt. Over on TheRinger.com, what a great website. You can, of course, read Ben Lindbergh, Obi-Wan Ben Lindberghi, every week. Breaking down Andor, so that's a can't-miss. We are also covering The Last of Us. Every week, we're covering The Last of Us and Andor together right now. It's a thrill. It's a joy.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
action sequence, guns a-blazing escape. But there's room in the show for lines like that because those lines are actually what the show is about. And that was really when I was like, we're back. Immediately from the jump, we're back.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That Rogue One intro was on my mind elsewhere in these opening three episodes, like when Cassian is making his escape to the TIE Avenger on Yavin. And, like, he guns down the final person in his way without hesitation. Now, those people had taken him prisoner. They were standing in his way. They were debating what to do. It's not a one-to-one to what happens in Rogue One, but it's a bridge, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It is, like, the... The recognition that he will do what is necessary in a desperate moment to move forward because the cause demands it, it's the Luthan creeping its way into the heart of him. And so, like, yeah, to kind of plot when that becomes more active and what the calibration of these different impulses are, because part of this scene was like, oh...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Let's remember that Cassian is not the same as Luthan, and that's fascinating to, like, watch the balance of those things. Before we talk about some of the other things we hear from Cassian, like, I wanted to ask you what you thought of this – it's a quick line, but it felt so significant – this moment where Naya says, I've had fun here. Oh, yeah. That must sound so strange.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, I thought making room for an idea like that was – Really important.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
House of R, we will have our deep dives on Monday evenings for you. We will be there at the top of the week for you. The Midnight Boys, pew, pew. I think they're going to be there on Sunday nights for you. Sick. Yeah. The Watch, Mondays. Joe and Rob, prestige check-ins in the middle of the week. And then Ben and Daniel on Button Mash on Thursdays with a Gamer Guide. So once again,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, that specifically is what I loved about it. Like... There comes a moment for anybody who is a part of this fascist regime where you are culpable for your participation and for not challenging it, right? For anyone, no matter what, that moment comes. But like an idea like this from a person who has decided to say, I won't be a part of this anymore. I'm scared, but I won't.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's like all of the different ways that you could wind up there in the first place. And maybe it's not because you're inherently evil or power mad. Maybe it's because you needed a job or you were born into a certain kind of family belief system or life. And like then what do you do from there?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And if you had friends there and the rhythm of working on ships and building things was like rewarding to you, wouldn't it be even harder then to try to take it down from the inside? And so even though we were with this character for like mere moments, it told us something crucial about the number of different forms.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like you're saying rebellion should take, and I just like, it's like, again, the genius of the show, it's half a line and we know... We learned something important about the spirit and the nuance and the variance of form that rebellion can take. So I love that. To the point that you mentioned earlier, you invoked the word leader with Cassian, and that was so central here. And also...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
later on Yavin 5 when despite his dismay that this many dipshits are participating in the rebellion, he kind of can't help but guide them as he goes. You should bank water. You should set a perimeter, right? He is trying constantly to guide and lead and inform. And Gilroy is upset on the watch. I want to show he's evolved into the leadership of it. And this was one of the many moments
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
great ways inside of these three episodes that we could just feel the passage of time. Like this is just a different energy and a different aura from Cassie. And then the kind of, uh, uh, kill me or take me in. I am responding to the urgency of the peril of the moment, but paired with still the, like, tell Marva she'd be proud of me budding, building heart and certainty inside of him.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
This is like, I'm going to now start giving that to other people. And I loved how we saw the distinction in form from Cassian's approach and Luthen's, or certainly Saw's. Like, When Naya looks at him and then apologizes, you know, she says, I wasn't supposed to look at your face. I'm so sorry. And then asks a question and then apologizes because she shouldn't be asking it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And he says, like, you can ask what you want. And tells her being here at the moment you step into the circle. You mentioned the circle. We get this idea in many different aspects of these three episodes. Here, Krennic uses the circle language to talk about the inner circle that the Gorman crew has been invited into. The wedding. The wedding. wedding circle. The wedding circle.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Which we will obviously talk about. So this idea of like what you were outside of or what you were being invited into and what it means to take a step into that. And Cassian was on the outside of it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And, you know, we actually have, like, much more insight into Saw Gerrera's history from, you know, Clone Wars and various other pieces of Star Wars canon. A lot of, like, Luthan's path to this point is still a black box to us. But for us as Andor viewers, Luthan has always been the guy inside the circle, directing, leading, guiding, insisting. He is the circle. Yes. Beautiful.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Full court press. We're going all in on Last of Us, all in on Andra. We're having the time of our lives. Jo, how can everybody follow along?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Cassian recently made that step. And so for him to be the one then extending the hand over the barrier and helping somebody move with comfort and more confidence inside of it, it just positions him so distinctly from the other people who are like in some state of authority.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And the person closest to him, Kleia, is... Fairly routinely across season one and already in season two there to remind him that he's fucking up.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, and like, Mon and, you know, Mon and Luthan interacting so routinely, all of the, one of my favorite parts of rewatching season one, I mean, it was one of the best parts in real time, but certainly of rewatching was the couple conversations and interactions we get between Luthan and Saw because those questions that we have as viewers are like active text for the characters.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And Luthan, in particular, is... certain that he's right, happy to bring up the receipts with Mon Mothma in this episode, I warned you, I told you. When it comes to the Anton Krieger decision in season one, out of just abject necessity, Gaslight saw into it being his choice at the end of the day, but is also the one to say like,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
well, you're the one sitting in a cold cave, like, fighting for scraps. This is a pretty... Really? You don't think we need to band together? He's imploring everybody to align, but not in their way. And so, like, what does that really mean then? And when will people lose their patience with that? That's one of the things, like, I'm most eager to see about season two.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Krennic is just like, your droids are going to be wiped. Don't put this on your calendar. Joe, what did you make of the actual escape and action sequence here? The theft of the TIE Avenger. We love a TIE theft. We rebels heads. I don't imagine that this one will wind up with a Sabine spray paint job, but never say never, I guess.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I loved when he realized he could gun down the wall after he blasted the one trooper.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That was really fun. I liked one of the things, the actual Cassian figuring out that he doesn't... Realizing that he doesn't know how to fly the ship. Later, he'll... with quite a bit of venom in his voice, say to Clea, like, did you know this was not the ship that I was trained to fly? And I loved a couple different things about that. I loved that
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So often in Star Wars, somebody gets into any ship, any place, they know exactly what to do. Oh, yeah. And, like, the fact that he didn't and had to figure it out, and then later the Maya paper grade cannot figure it out.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And, like, it makes the universe feel more real. Mm-hmm. And, like, we know that Castiel is a gift.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I mean, at the end of the day, with Anakin, I'll always kind of allow it because he's midichlorian Jesus.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But for most other characters, you know, a little bit of a learning curve occasionally feels right. But I also just like the idea that, like, okay, this is a space opera. This is an adventure story. This is a political thriller. This is a spy thriller. And like part of what we're thinking about always is the trade craft and the currency of information. Why is this a different ship?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like we don't get the answers to those questions in this episode, but that's not the point. The point is that we should be wondering, right? What changed? Who was their source of information beyond just Naya? Like, how quickly are things moving? What does it mean to be able to achieve this but not to know in full what awaited? What will the consequences of something like that be?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
They're always chasing the next insight and the next infiltration.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We're not on the, we're not at the, um, the Chandrila wedding sequence yet, but like she's already come up so much. It feels, it feels telling. Did you have a favorite? Let's just do it now. Clay, a moment, uh, quiet, like MVP of the opening episode. She's iconic always, but what was your favorite moment? Could you, can you even possibly pick?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, that's... That was great when she's like, you know, just two single people looking at prospects. And then, like, the next day when my headcanon is that she found someone to fuck, and that's her ride home, right? Because when Luthan's like, well, yeah, you can go back, but I can't leave, so you're going to have to ride. And she's like...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Taking her, not first, but second step. To a... Larger and or world. Joanna, let's talk about your favorite characters in the, I think you've now said not only first three episodes of season two, but history of Star Wars and maybe storytelling.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I like when we can take people a little bit behind the curtains. And one of the first things I texted you about was...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
bracket redacted has rubbed a thumb over bracket redacted's lips help and one of the first things you texted me was um that one of the things you were most in on was uh these uh complete doofuses playing space rock paper scissors so just shows that we're focusing on the truly important stuff and uh these episodes of television.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I was really excited. And you were right. I was Joe. Yeah. Cassian heads down to this jungle moon. He's there to meet Porco. Porco's not there. He's dead. Tough one. RIP Porco, you know, tough. We lost a lot of, uh, meaningful characters in these episodes. Porco, not top of the list, but we will mourn his passing nonetheless. Um,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Spoiler warning. Spoiler warning. Here it is. We are covering three episodes today. Episode one, One Year Later. Episode two, Sagrona Tima. Episode three, Harvest. Three-part premiere, three episodes of Andor are dropping every week for four weeks for this 12-episode second season. All three of these were written by Tony Gilroy and directed by Ariel Kleinman.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yavin 4, as mentioned already, and surely I will find an excuse to mention it again later. Very fun. Yeah. Exciting stuff. The shot later when Cassian escapes and you're like, holy shit, that's Yavin 4. Very fun. Porco's not there, but these 15...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Blaster Toten rebels are there, and we and Cassie and Doe, it's 15 of them, because they tell them, and then immediately start arguing about whether they should have shared the exact number.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Well, they don't know that. They don't know anything. They're arguing about fucking everything. Is it safe to eat the moldy meal bars? Is Maya Pay dead? Half of them seem to think so. Half of them aren't. They've been abandoned here by one of their brothers, but they don't really know what's happening.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So the reason that this was my least favorite part, but again, all relative of the opening three episodes, is just because I... I just, like, wanted Cassian to be a little more in the mix than chained to the floor of a ship for two of three episodes.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
He could have been – obviously, he has to be delayed. They're waiting for him. There's that aspect of the clock. He's supposed to be back tomorrow and then the blockade, et cetera. But, I mean, he could have been any number of places. I think ultimately, you know, the function and purpose of this, which was successful, is to give him and us, like, yet another glimpse into the just –
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
again, that variances side of the rebellion. Like, this is where, you know, we can talk about what you teased earlier, those moments in season one when Saw and Luthan talked about this. Like, this is one of the groups that is actually mentioned by Saw when he's, like, enumerating all of the different rebel factions. Krieger's a separatist. Maya Pei's a neo-Republican.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
The Gorman front, well, those two are just, like, relevant right here, right? Can't wait to talk about the Gorman tourism video that we get at the Krennic Council.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Oh, God, let's really know the truth. And then later in that same conversation, that's when Luthen replies to Saw, we'll die with nothing if we don't put aside our petty differences. Petty, Saw says? I am the only one with clarity of purpose. Well, anarchy is a seductive concept, a bit of a luxury, I'd argue, to a man who is hiding in coal caves begging for spare parts.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So, like, the idea that not only are there that many different groups inside of the budding rebellion, But that they're not aligned with each other to the point that they don't even recognize each other is very interesting to me.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And so everything that happened in these episodes is on the table today in a podcast that we have not even deigned to guess the length of.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Totally. Many, many, many aspects of these episodes were even more painful and harrowing to watch than they otherwise would have been. I... I think that infighting and the lack of alignment was fascinating in this Maya Pay Brigade, not only because it's between the different factions of rebellion. Again, Cassian's like, Maya Pay Brigade, we've been supplying you. That does nothing.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It doesn't move them at all. They ask him who he's with. he won't tell them and he's like, you guys should be more careful. But it's the infighting inside of one faction. Like a very kind of like House of the Dragon-esque. It's sure, it's Team Black versus Team Green, but the most interesting thing often is what's happening inside of each of those factions. So,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
He actually seemed, I thought on The Watch, really sincere about it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, I enjoyed all of that as well. You're loving the Maya Pay Brigade. You're coming around. Again, it's all relative to me. It's like the least successful, quote unquote, part of an Andor premiere is still going to be like one of the best things I've seen in quite some time.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, he's like, it's really a lot. I feel bad. Tony, it's a gift. It's a gift. If part of Kaz were here, he would say to us, like he said to Dedra, it's a gift. Take it and win it. And that's what we intend to do. God damn it. So we're talking about the first three episodes of Andor. We are going to talk about certainly things from Andor season one.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Does it excite you to think that Should anybody survive? They might be there when our rebels return?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, Dudar. Sweet Dudar. The Brigade fractures, Jo. Sad to see. Mm-hmm. They split. They're yelling at each other. They're just... I thought of you and how you like to say too dumb to live. Real too dumb to live stuff happening all around. All around from this group, as is proven true pretty immediately.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I did get a real kick out of when someone from each side, because half of them end up in the TIE Avenger, half of them end up in Cassian's former broken ship, and they're each kind of like, got to spy on the other side. Uh... Goggles and then a boot with a bloody foot.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Well, Yellow Jackets is on my mind because I don't think they're lasting a day out in the wilderness with the Yellow Jackets. They're like so afraid to try anything. to scrape some mold off of a meal bar. Now, I know that's not how mold works, but desperate times. They, as Cassian observes, really haven't gone to look for water or for food because they're scared of the animals.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Now, they're proven right on that front. The melons smell, so they have to basically, like, recall prior feats achieved in... games of truth or dare in order to like muster the courage to take a bite. It's like, do you know how many disgusting rank smelling black melons Obi-Wan and the Tuskens put down? You fuel up in the way you must. God damn it. They're not ready to eat a person, Joe.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We'll have to get them on a podcast to find out. Okay. I did like watching them try to do math. When the... Trying to move the TIE Avenger.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And if it's ever happened in Star Wars, it could come up today. Certainly Rogue One is always in the mix when we're talking about Andor because Andor is a prequel to Rogue One. So we are not going to pretend that you all have not seen Rogue One and that we have not seen Rogue One. That's the spoiler warning. Anything else before we dive in, Jo? Let's do it. All right.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Great stuff. Joanna, any commentary that you would care to provide on Five Hands? Roski rules. Total submission. Either on the tactics, you have to choose a second, on the facial expressions that seem to pair with the selected hand choice. Anything at all. Is this how you intend to make all decisions moving forward or TBD?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I like how not a single person was like, is this how we should come to clarity? Everyone's like, yeah. Five ants are asking rules. Let's go. Let's go. I did get a kick out of on the season one connections front when Cassian kind of senses that his moment has come and uses his foot to make his way to a panel that he then opens where he's hiding a blaster.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, we saw him do versions of this so many times in season one where something was hidden. Yeah.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
behind a panel that he would loosen with a fist or a kick like obviously this is a key part of the prison break the pipe that he is working to snap but also just in the very first episode yeah yeah loves to work pipe will and uh bela they were working some pipe in the wheat fields man boy it didn't occur to me until your text and i was like okay
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That's just, everyone's fucking their way through the rebellion, and I'm happy for the people who have found happiness.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I stand by the take. Remember... He had to go back to Nemos to get Nemec's manifesto, which he had left above the showerhead in the bathroom where he was drinking nog. Crushing Pizos. Greeny blue ones. And fucking his way through a vacation.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So it's canon as far as I'm concerned. He was hiding things behind panels on the ship when Bea and him had that first conversation at the beginning. It's just like a great. Loves to bang things open. It's great. Great little touch. He gets away. And he will eventually make his way to Mina Rao. But we're going to go there right now.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It was a pulse cold, not a conversation, but this is going to be a conversation. It's going to be a long one. Let's get to the opening snapshot. It's always fun to be back in a given fictional universe and remember what the music is. Yeah, give an almond sweet. Yeah, for the segments of that particular universe. Okay, Jo, these episodes... Long. 54, 47, 56 minutes. Thrilling stuff.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And we're going to catch up with Bea, Bix, Brazo, and Will, and also meet some new characters. Because our Ferrix found family has found a, frankly, beautiful wheat field to hide out in. They're working as mechanics. In the grain silos. And this was just one of the many visually beautiful aspects of the episode.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Later on, when everything goes to shit, there's like that really cool shot of the stormtroopers moving through the stalks of wheat. And obviously it's very different from the troopers moving through the turquoise glistening waters of Scarif. But it did feel like there's something about the way that Gilroy is deploying
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
these the fascist shows of force in like as incursions in a natural natural world in a natural world that like you just they feel like it feels like such a violation yeah Joe we got an interesting email about the color of the sky
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah. And like we hear Kellen talk about. in the episode, like, the Empire's need, you know, and how can they count on that? Like, it's a risk, right? The Empire needs the grain. They know we need help in order to generate it. They know everyone isn't legal. It's not really clear how hard they're going to look, and that becomes part of the calculus, the fact that this is something
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
something that the Empire is relying on, but is also there to upend and disrupt and pursue as, like, heinous sport, which is what we watch in this sequence. And right from the jump here, it's... We're in a disturbing kind of... Literally in a disturbing headspace.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
No. I was longing for B, and we do get to see him in the stream space before we see him for real. But this was like, I honestly did, I loved this. Because while it is, of course, deeply upsetting to see the way that Gorst continues to haunt Bix's nightmares, you know, for anybody who doesn't recall, Dr. Gorst was the Empire torture artist on Ferrix who put the headset over- Torture artist?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Torture artist. I mean, he is. He is. Gotta give it to him! The massacre of the Desanites, the sound of the children in particular that the Empire, under Gorse's invention and oversight, uses to torment people into coughing up information and then ultimately being driven into a husk-like state. And... one of the things that we know, we saw what happened to Wilman's dad.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's implied what has happened to other people is that like plenty of people don't even make it out of there the way Bix did. And so like to, to remember that it's not a victory, right? It's like Bix made it out, but what does she carry with her?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah. And I, you know, I was thinking back to how in that ninth episode of season one, Gorse said, doesn't take long. It won't feel that way to you inside, but... Like, this is a show that considers it essential. Not elective, but essential to remind us of how true that is, right? That the horror... takes its root inside of you and it doesn't leave.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And, like, that trauma you carry forward with you. And it impacts every day the rest of your life. And, like, the show takes that seriously in a way that is, of course, very upsetting to watch, but also important. Important to consider.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And they are set, in our world, two and a half years since the end of Andor Season 1. A lot of time has passed. In the fictional canon... One year later, one year since the Andor season one finale, we are set in for BBY. We actually got in fucking Andor a BBY title card. And I love a BBY. So I was thrilled.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
She knows all about his charger, as we learn. Yeah. Joanna's sweet bee. He's right there with him to help comfort Bix. And he says, another dream Cassian will want to know. I cried as soon as I saw Bix. I'm saying, I'm just brought, genuinely brought to tears.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I love a droid, but Bea in particular just evokes something so... We talked about this a lot in season one. It just reminds me so genuinely powerfully of our bonds with our pets in real life. It is just magical.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I loved later, we'll talk about this scene, but seeing him zip around...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I need him to see Cassian again. I can't accept that he's not going to see Cassian again. I just actually can't accept it. You're going to have to, like, scoop me up off the floor if that happens. I won't be able to bear it. You better come to L.A. and hold me. Okay. Pledge it to me now. Wow. I will. Okay. I can't. I will not be okay.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
What did bring me comfort in addition to what you're citing about Talia was just seeing that they were all still together. I know. Because, like, a year has passed and they didn't have to be. You know, like, so obviously Talia is new. Bela is new. Callum is new. But for Bix, for Brazo, for Bea, for Will, obviously for Cass, who's on a mission but we understand has been with them. Yeah.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
They left Ferex together, a community that they had shared. We know, obviously, Bix and Cassian had history. Obviously, Cassian and Bea were family. Brazo and Cassian had history. Bix and Will had history, et cetera. But, like... There's a difference to fleeing out of necessity to escape with your life and then staying together for a year and building something together.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And the thing you're building is like trust, community, comfort, belonging, knowing that there are just a couple people in the crumbling galaxy that you can rely on to be there if you wake up in a fit of terror. It honestly really moved me to know that they were still there for each other and together and to believe that that wouldn't change.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
By the fucking radio. The radio that is the biggest risk they take, right? Like, anytime they receive or send a signal, they're putting their lives on the line. And to have Marva there, just like her hollow at her funeral, like, to remind them that it's worth it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Oh, my God. Like, those little details. I also was so struck by that. I thought that was incredible. It's like, it's the next best thing to actually just having her Ferrix brick. Yeah. Right there with them. I loved that. Can I just tell you... Unfortunately, the Empire has arrived.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Tell me. No, no, no. No, tell me. We'll come back to it. Is it about Marva? Is it about Bea? Maybe. Is it about Rai?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Joanna, an Imperial ship, has arrived. And what's interesting about this... Is that there would be plenty of moments in Andor and other Star Wars shows where the constant presence of the Empire is the unmooring thing. Yeah. This is the surprise of it. It's been a decade since the ship has been here. They don't know what's going on.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Kellen has to go fact find and find out that it's an Imperial supply census and audit spot checking for visas. And... The fact that the discomfort can come in so many forms. It can be constant. It can be sudden. You never know what to expect.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, it's your version of saying like Kleenex or Jell-O for any tissue or gelatin product.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Either you are in a perpetual state of disruption and fear, or the fear is wondering when the continuity and consistency of your relative peace, why can't they just leave us in peace, we hear from Kellen, is going to end. And we see it here. But we know that it's happening in so many forms in so many other places.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And when Kellen will say to Brazo later, like, do you know Cassian's friend, the big boss? Like, can you tell him? Tell him they need to know what's happening here. We got versions of that with Nelshi and Cassian after the prison escape. Like, they need to know. This idea that they need to know. And Brazo's like, this is happening everywhere, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And the ability to juggle the constant reminder that this is vast and sweeping and sprawling while... When we go to those new places, like you were talking about earlier in the pod, allowing us to invest fully in these people in this place. Like, you can't become complacent and lose the ability to care about each individual circumstance, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
You have to care about every family in every farm and every planet in the galaxy. The fact that the Empire doesn't, that they'll go gouge mine or strip... Is what makes them the empire.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So it's like a very difficult balancing act to not just make it feel like the kind of cold calculus of sweeping tyranny and remind us of what each individual circumstance looks like while also then always hitting that Klaxon, Ferex-like chime of like, right, it's all around us all the time.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
This is where we mentioned on the watch that Gilroy talked about that pursuit of timelessness. Um, this is the stretch of the story where this idea of checking for visas of checking for documentation comes into play in this audit from, from the empire.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
When you run, that's when you're caught, et cetera. So all of the, everybody runs Mallory. I don't know if you know that all of the very disturbing comps, um, We get a little glimpse of Kellen's shop, like barrels of coffee, just like Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. And... You know, the Imperial soldiers are horrible, but they are also looking for Bezos. Do you think they like the blue-green ones?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Probably. Unfortunately, they don't have any variety here on Mineral.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Tough. Shocking stuff. Shocking stuff. This is where we first meet Lieutenant Kroll.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's entirely possible that they're actually married. I think even if they're not, my assumption is that they are together. I mean, part of why poor Tim went down with such a quickness in season one was because, as, you know, Bix put it, thought they were back together. Like, they have been romantically entwined for much of their time together.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Could they be married? It's entirely possible. My assumption was that husband was maybe just a thing she said. Could be. Because it's a little quicker and more decisive and definitive than, like... My partner, who I used to date, and then, like, I didn't, but now we're back together. But, yeah, maybe they are. I mean... We don't know.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I've thought about this. Like, I guess I'll reserve any sort of – I don't know. I would have to see, I guess, how it felt. Like, I – I think, obviously, like, it would depend on where, what happened to Bix. If Bix is, in fact, are they just not together? Or is Bix dead?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
In which BBY did it happen? Which BBY? And, like, because, I mean, I don't know. Why is Bix not there? There could be any number of reasons. But, like, if something happens to Bix, and I have no idea, if something happens to Bix over the course of this season... and Cassian found a connection after that with somebody else, I think that would be wonderful. Yeah. I agree. You know? Horrible.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Oh, yeah. Is Lieutenant Krull. I thought that the, like, not just the is he here, but specifically the does he worry about you, which he uses as a way to – casually mention that you're not going to be able to reach this person and he's not going to be able to reach you. The comms are down. We have put in a frequency blockade, which is, of course, a very explicit threat.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, we decide who you can talk to and when. He's not here and I am. Does he worry about you? Like, it was just, like you said, we can feel right away where this is heading. And I found that so...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I guess we probably should have mentioned that earlier when we were chiming in on how easy it should be to fly a fucking plane you've never seen before.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Let's move on. All right, we'll take a brief reprieve from the horror by going to this lovely communal affair. The village has gathered. They're at these long picnic tables. This is where Bea is zipping around saying, we're getting away. They'll never catch us now. And this reminded both of us, obviously just visually very reminiscent of... the picnic as they're building the barn in Witness.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, it's so similar. Not the only Witness comp in this part of the three-part premiere. Like, Cassian... Cassian gunning open the grain silo to bury people alive? Um... You know, it's not corn, but it'll do. Pretty good call.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I loved it. I loved it. And we see like Talia and Brazo interact more and just, you know, get to see Bea like mingling with the crowd. The little like the little droid puppet that one of the kids has. It's just like the thing we talk about so much with the Shire or the other like show us what you're fighting to protect and save. Just like the what's the rhythm of life like here?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Okay. Then, no. But I do like merch, as you know. Yeah, true. So in-universe merch, why not? Why not? So Brazel gets an update from Kellen. The check is coming tomorrow. They need to leave tonight. And as they're preparing, starting to pack up to leave that night... B finds out. Brazo and Talia tell him. B says, when were you going to tell me? I'm telling you now, B. Now is too late.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We won't be a way along, B. It's too long already. No. No. You have soothed me some with your gift of an observation that Dahlia is canonically presented to us as being a person worthy of B's care.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That's right. This is not our only BBY email or bad BBY email of the pod. Good stuff. Okay, Joe. The way that the season is structured, 12 episodes, four weeks, three each week, each of those three-episode arcs is going to be set in one year as we march toward the events of Rogue One and thus A New Hope.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I mean, I agree. I think this is, like, tapping into an actual genuine fear I have. Well, like, I'm sure. Yes. I... Yes, it definitely, like, surfaces some of the, like, how could you not say goodbye to ghosts PTSD that I have. But I actually, like... I genuinely worry about this. Like what if something happened to me and like Halo thought I abandoned him?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like I think about that whenever I leave, which I'm sure will sound completely insane to people, but it is true. So I just like need Cassian. Obviously they were escaping. It was a hurry. He didn't have time then, but I need him to go back and I need him to see and know that B is okay and tell B that he loves him. I need it. We got... And B is always thinking of Cassian, by the way, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
He's like, how will Cassian know where to go? I need to know that Cassian is thinking about B too. I need that. And I don't know if Tony Fiora gives a shit what I need, but I need it, Joanna. How many emails would you say we got from people asking, is this the last we've seen of B?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
They can't wait for sundown. They realize. They gotta go. It's time to go. Only Will's not there. So the group fractures. They split because... Will is with Bela. We have multiple moments across the episode where either she's bringing him, like, water when he's out at work or they're nestled against evaporator in the rye field. He is with her once again. Brazo gets on a speeder to go look for him.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Vix is packing up. So our group has split. I did find on the Will front... I was, like, kind of surprised, actually, that he was as present in these episodes, but I found myself... Well, it's like Clea.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, and, like, obviously he, you know, he did consequential things in season one. It wasn't just, like, oh, he's the son of the father who has the secret radio tower in the back. Like, he built that bomb, you know? He threw it during the funeral. And, like, just, I don't know, to see...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
To see that he could find some sliver of joy with another person after what happened to his father and what happened to his home gave me a little bit of hope. So I thought that was nice to make space for that. Let's talk about what happens between Kroll and Bix. Because he returns. Bix is alone. And... He goes inside and he takes off his hat, fixes his hair in the mirror.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We got a fascinating email about this. Yeah, I loved this.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's an absolute thrill and a joy. An embarrassment of riches. Like when they said of the Gorman spiders, there's no denying their dedicated work habits, spinning from dawn till dusk, never stopping to feed or sleep. It's like, wow, it sounds like the whole Ringerverse crew during a busy pod run.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, this is a great email. I thought this was... just, again, so disturbing. Like, I've used the word a lot already, but it is obviously appropriate in this context. Like... We're about to watch an attempted rape scene, and the thing that Lieutenant Kroll does is fix his hair, like, as he is about to attempt to rape Bix.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So it's just, like, really disturbing and unsettling.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I guess that makes sense if, like, you are going to be jumping across the years rather than trying to catch us up on an entire year. Like, give us a drenched and deep dive into, like, a notable moment in time. And then one of the things that Andor is, of course, so deft at is giving us insight into everything that's happened in between. And this opening arc was no exception, certainly.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
She kills... I mean, this is an incredibly violent sequence. She kills Kroll. She guns down the other Imperial officer who gives her mere seconds to emerge. And she says... She says, he tried to rape me.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I agree with you completely. We've obviously talked about this in other shows that we cover, including, as you mentioned, Thrones. And, like, I'm with you. I really... I tend to ask, you know, myself and the show, like, did we, quote unquote, need that, right? Like, what is the function of that scene? What is it achieving?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And I really, like, I think it's important to interrogate the moments when any given story, like, says that a character needs to suffer through a sexual assault to, like, learn something, grow. We talked about this a lot with Sansa when covering Yuma Thrones. Like, it's just... Forever upset about that. My guard is always on with something like that.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So that was sort of like a base operating position of just like how I'm going to think about the scene when it is presented to us. But I completely agree with you. Like, I thought this was really important. And obviously it's like, very painful and upsetting to watch. I certainly understand why for some viewers it is triggering and too upsetting to watch. Yes.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But this is something that would happen, like you said. And to show us what it looks like when people in a position of power use that power against other people for their own pleasure and gain... this would be a part of it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And I thought in terms of the fascistic... the chokehold of power, like, physically and literally in a scene like this and metaphorically... Mm-hmm. One of the other things about this that felt, like, really just important to shine a light on and show us was, like, for Kroll, this attempted rape, this sexual assault scene is, like, a barter session, right? Yeah.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But, yeah, I will be curious to see if that's consistent in the following three arcs as well. You mentioned the wedding. Mm-hmm. One of the many locations, events, settings, plot lines, character groupings that we're with in this robust three-episode opening. Give us your very quick, little amuse-bouche opening table setting read on the episodes.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Right, when he lets out that, like, animalistic shriek. When Kroll was at the store, and there's that moment where he looks at Bela. And Bela's mom sees and sends her inside immediately. Like, we understand that this is what he does. And we understand because he does this that other people in a position of power and control where they are leveraging somebody else's power
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Right and ability to be free against them would do this to people. And so, like, of course it is horrific to see Bix go through this, but it does feel important, like, in Star Wars and a mature show to... And that's – Make room for the reality of all of the different forms that horror takes.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Okay. That was heavy. That was. And then Brasso dies. And then Brasso dies, which is really sad because he's a loyal friend and a good dude. How did you read the Kellen-Brasso moment? Did you – Oh, yeah, yeah. I have a very strong reading on this. Me too. So I wonder if we're aligned on this because I read this as – They've all been caught.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And Brazo basically stages a fake fight with Kellen to preserve his cover. He's like, I'm done, but I can save you. Because the way he said, use us up and turn us in, it's not actually applicable to their relationship. He's basically pretending that he's one of his toolie workers only.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
How did it feel to be back in the Andor universe overall, and how did you find this three-part premiere?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
There's certainly a read that Kellen sold him out, but that was not my interpretation.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Are we sure? Are we sure Bea's not going to make him a brick? Are we sure? Why can't Bea make him a brick? It actually, like, genuinely kills me to think about Bea finding out about this.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, Cassian having to leave him there like that. And then the look of just that haunted look on his face. As they escaped.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Everyone but Qui-Gon. Like, let's just keep saying it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Well, here's what StarWars.com can't take away from us. He doesn't have a stone, but that mortar, the blood and mortar mix, that's in their hearts. They take that with them. They do. Stone and sky. They carry that with them. They can't put it in a wall. Stone and sky, exactly. Yes. Oh, that made me emotional too to hear. Me too. Okay. It's time for a vibe change here. Yeah.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Can I interest you in a three-day wedding? Are you ready to get sauced and dance with me?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Is it welcome and helpful then? that they've been saying just Shandy.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Dude, I just like thinking of that story. So many times, like, what are the Dothraki comps here? The great stuff. Yeah, it's not a slice to the gut, but it is more cutting in some ways, you know, to realize that we won't get to see any episodes this season where Aman and Tay passionately fuck. I'm in mourning. And I'm sorry for you, honestly. Okay, this was really great.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I just really loved, honestly, all of these scenes. This was just a true delight. Let's start with day one, day one of the three-day affair at the Mothma estate. Now, thrilling to be here, less thrilling to confront what, you know, had seemed inevitable, but now we face it at last, which is it's happening. Does it help now?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
All these little vignettes we get as we travel with them.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I love that. I love that. I love you identifying that as, like, a through line. Yeah.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's delightful. I really loved this as well. I liked the little brief encounters with people who are ultimately not consequential, but it still tells us something. I really liked that little moment where Amman and Perrin interact with His favorite reprobate. Great stuff. That was delightful.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But we get, like, one of the things that Andor does so well is, like, even the kind of casual, seemingly, like, just kind of, like, tossed away little lines have some level of meaning still. Like, this initial exchange where Mon says, you know, looking younger every season, and we get the, oh, how effortlessly you lie. Mm-hmm.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That's meaningful because to that person, it is just about the thing that they are talking about, right? Do you look young? Do you look old? Great to see you at the wedding, the small talk, the bullshit, whatever. But people clocking that about Mon Mothma without in any way understanding- It's cute.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
The implications behind it and the way that it actually manifests and is applied in her life is like-
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
genius and just fascinating and also we see it a lot in this episode and of course all across season one and presumably many more times to come the rest of this season takes a lot of effort actually like it's driving her to the brink every time she has to plaster that smile back on and go make her way through one of these encounters like one of the reasons that i even though it is very upsetting that the second later wedding is actually happening is
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, that moment in season one when Davo, when Mon was like, I'm not considering it. Like, I'm not thinking about it. Get the fuck out of here. I'm not interested. This is not going to happen. There is a line and I won't cross it. And he said, that's the first untrue thing you've said.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, the fact that he was able to clock that true thing about her when the mask is so central to all of these interactions, like, that really bled into this three-day wedding. Yeah.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
If you're going to be named, you know, Erskine, like let's let's think about Bucky and Steve in some capacity.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
What would the character be? What would the character do? Oh, Ruben Irolam. Like, would that character just stand there at a wedding talking about how the governor is taking up too many parking spaces? And have a chat with Luthan? Why not? I don't know. Would Tay drunkenly bump into that character?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Fantastic. If I'm on that dance floor, I'm finding Perrin. Let me just get that out there. He's already gone.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I loved every second we got with him. I mean, I thought he was interesting in season one. I think that Perrin and Mon are riveting together, but everything we got in these episodes was incredible. Let's talk about this very first Mon-Luthen interaction when, as you know, she clocks in there. It's like, what the fuck are you doing there? He and Claire are there to work.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Someone's got to go hunt down, procure, and then bring, position, dust off, polish the Shandy Merle. But what an opportunity this is to work in a different way as well. I liked the, because there's this cover of like, what is the gift? What is the secret gift? Yeah. He's terrible at keeping secrets. And then Luthan saying, I've been practicing. Taman, their relationship is so juicy.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And again, that's a line that like to everyone observing, they're like, they know they can't clock what this is about at all. But to us, this is just like drenched in tradecraft significance.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
My favorite Luthen moment, which I actually don't know, we'd have to ask Jomie, but I hope and assume is already a meme, was, like, later... When he's chatting with the naval kid who says that he's been... They've all been moved on a steer car. And Lytton leans in and his eyes go wide and he says, Really? And where's everyone going? I just thought... I mean, he's just the best. Really funny.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Are you any wig watch TM with Joanna Robinson, TM real-time commentary on the season two Luthen wig that you'd like to share? I mean, it's perfect.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, but I mean... You know, she was ready to party later.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
She kind of does. Sure, that whole family is a fucking nightmare. Nightmare, yeah. It's just a little clip. She seemed fun. I thought that... I had like a second where I'm like, okay, Luther and Clea are here because they brought Davos gift. Convenient. Half a second. And then I was like, I'm all in. This is just brilliant to me as like a way, obviously just with everything happening with
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
for Luthan to be there to observe and push and for that extra element of tension, the mon Luthan kind of constant like difference of opinion of like how severe to be and what is required and who is ready to risk what when. But just the core nature of his observation, the fact that like he says to her later, Would you have told me if I wasn't here?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, everything that's happening with Tay is inherently so painful and intense for Mon. Everything that's happening with Leda is inherently so painful and intense. This extra element of Luthen being there as observer and pusher in the pressure cooker, too, I thought was great in terms of just their arc and their relationship.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But just more broadly, like, the way that it reinforced to us a thing we already know, a thing that has been clear since season one, but here was like... inescapable, which is there is no longer any distinction for Mon Mothma between the personal and the cause. Like the work, the pursuit, the rebellion has bled into every aspect of her home life. And it can know, that's another braid.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like that braid's not unbraiding. There's no disentangling of that for Mon anymore. And you see the way that it's weighing on her here. Beautiful.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Joe, we have a lot to get to today. We have three episodes of Andor to get to today. So we're just going to like breeze through the usual programming reminders. We want to make sure everybody knows about the full suite of Andor offerings. We're going to be here on, depending on your time zone, Thursday nights every week. Maybe it'll be waiting for you in your feed on Friday mornings.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
The moment later when Davo like is talking about this, you know, I let this like connect you to your history and each other, this temple relic that we have. brought into the ballroom as a wedding gift. And he introduces Luthan to everyone. Like, he draws attention to who he is. And there's, you know, my instinct would be, oh, boy, how dangerous. But no, for Luthan, like, that's the proposition.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That's the point, right? Like, that's the bounty is all of these other people who he can then use their business, this cover, I'm this curator, this dealer, to work his way into other halls of power to gain proximity to other people who might know something or have access to either information or some sort of lever of control. So...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, the idea to him that it's, like, it also is just actually interesting to see how the cover of the gallery, like, functions.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That's taken, unfortunately. I'd be honored, honestly. I'd be honored. Maybe Clea can help us come up with it. She's always thinking. She's great. What are we looking at? When they still haven't heard from Cass and Luthan's like, what are we looking at? And Clea said, I'm looking for a drink. I love it. Honestly, genuinely in my running for favorite moment of the three episodes. It's so good.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I'm a big fan of Freya. Oh my God. Okay. Let's get to some of the sidebars from the evening. Night one. What did you make of this Per and Davo exchange? They're looking out at their kids and Per says, later won't be easy. You know best. Is he tough enough? Not by half, Davos says. He'll either learn or be led.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And then Perrin, my favorite sad boy who is in the pursuit of joy, as we will soon hear, says, well... I wish him luck. What do you think he's seeing when he looks out at this younger generation?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, exactly. Like for that like idea of like she's the stronger one. Yeah. And I know what that's going to be like was just, whew, boy. One of the things that I love about the Per and Mon relationship is how disappointing they are to each other. Like, there's a mutual letdown there that is so interesting to me.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I mean, you still see it though in some moments. I don't know. Well, we'll talk about it later, but like the sharing of the tea.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
There's like a rhythm and an intimacy that I found really striking and the way they moved with each other and kind of orbited around each other. There's just like...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Sometimes when you're with somebody for a long time, you either grow to despise them or you have complex feelings about them, but there is a familiarity that doesn't waver and isn't lost and, like, actually can then make maybe that, like, absence of the affection that you used to feel even more painful to have to confront. And, like, that just feels so palpable with them.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I thought that that... And that moment, that breakfast moment, is when Perrin... brings up Tay to her and he says, you know, they're chuckling about the Shandy Merle and like how it's kind of gross. It probably costs more than the house. And then Perrin, he's about to dunk on Tay and say he was always weak. He can't handle his booze.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
This guy who came to us in season one as this like distinguished... The pillar of society, like, can't hold his liquor. It's that Onion headline, the worst person you know is right. Yeah, totally. And I just thought this was, like, riveting to watch. He said, you should tell your boyfriend to back off the nog. And Mon, just again, moving about casually, who's my boyfriend? What have you done?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Thrown him over? I don't know who we're talking about. Take Homa. Is he not your lover? There was also something about that phrasing that felt like very... Yeah, just like, again, this is Andor. Like, I don't know. Is he not your lover? Haven't heard that nonsense in a while. I was really struck by this. The kind of like casual mention inside of their marriage that Perrin just like...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
and has kind of accepted that his wife is cheating on him. He also has, like, because we kind of had this, like, is Perrin actively bad in season one? And then we kind of moved into, like, is he just, like, a fuckboy? But there was that moment where he was, like, you know, talking about how maybe you both let him down gently. Like, it's good to do that. Or so I've heard.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, the so I've heard felt like it was doing the work of saying, I actually don't do this. Like, maybe you're the one who does this. And I'm not. And I just thought that was all fascinating. And then there's the part of me that has long been a Taman shipper who's like, if everyone thinks you're fucking, maybe you just should. I'm sorry. I can't believe we're not going to see those two hook up.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Exactly. Exactly. Like, Tay's thinking about, oh, the lesson learned is how timid I've become. No, that's the lesson. That's the lesson, Joanna. Carry it with you. Carry it with you always. I'll carry it with me. The fact that Tay can't hold his liquor? It's worrying. It's worrying for us. It's worrying for Mon.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
You know, we have the initial greeting with Tae and Mon the prior day where he's kind of like, we're building this tension, conversation after conversation. They have many of them before we get to the kind of full, like, what are the stakes? What's happening here? But he's kind of like... yeah, I left your message. She's like, sorry, I didn't get back to you, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We're kind of like learning what happens before he finally just says, like, I've had some, it's been a rough stretch. Bad deals. Marnie, we split. Surprised you haven't heard. Like, people haven't been gossiping about it in a way that's reached you. I want to talk about the foundation. The idea that You know, we'll see him, like, again, just kind of bumbling his way around the dance floor.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And crucially, Luthen sees it later. He's going to invoke Davo. Like, it gets to a point where it is, from Luthen's perspective, not something they can risk. But the fact that Tay doesn't know how to behave, doesn't know how to behave and remain composed in civilized society, like, that that would be something to Monm?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
that is inside of this great sin of the betrayal of their friendship and their history together, a sin as well, because that's, for her, not optional, right? Like, she's got to remain composed.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Great. Looks great. But like, yeah, I think it's fascinating. I like learning how considerate they were about, like, whether this would be a believable arc. You know, Gilroy made the comp to Fredo, and it is obviously a very Fredo-y thing that we're witnessing here.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
One of the things I really loved about this and that felt, again, kind of like a true thing that... What happened is that Tay actually came into our lives as viewers and into the story as somebody who... was kind of like pure, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
He's a money man, he's a banker, but he, one of the first things we hear him say to Manas, he's in one is like, you know, my politics might be too strong for you, right? And so- He's like, I'm something of a revolutionary myself. Exactly. Exactly. And to see somebody who actually had like the conviction of a moral position, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
begin to operate so transactionally here is one of the forms of loss that you confront when this is the game you play. And, like, it's important for us to confront that and for Mon. I... I thought that hearing him specifically say like not not just, you know, oh, he's looking around at the wealth of the wedding. Right. But not just like everyone seems quite pleased with how they've landed.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And I'm left wondering about the risks I've taken. But specifically to say that the rebellion is what's hurting him. Like the thing that we know he believed was right and appropriate.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, people can say all they want. Like, this is what I believe is right and what happens when it affects your wallet, right? Like, I thought it was great, actually, that even though I was very sad about it, that this happened. I really liked it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
What do you want to say about this just more general position that Mon finds herself in where we're going to talk more about Perrin and Leda? She's a disappointment to both of them. They're disappointments to her. This person that she has known for her entire life who she trusted so much that she put it on the line. with Luthan. She vouched for him.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, the don't lecture me on vulnerability, no one's more at risk than I am argument that Maude and Luthan had in season one. She had to convince him that it was appropriate, that she knew that she was right to make the call to bring Tay in. she's losing the ability to trust in any of the relationships or people or structure around her.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We're going to talk about the conversation in a second that she and Vel had and what we learned about what Mon believes is important through that conversation. But more broadly, like this absence of the buttresses of your life, right? The familiar moorings that Mon is confronting. How did that strike you here?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Be honest. How high is that on your list of questions?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I thought that over – I love that. I thought that over the three episodes, to start with that long walk – we love a long walk. We do.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
To start with that long walk where we get to see all of the different masks she needs to wear and skins she needs to inhabit and the different people she needs to be for everybody she might interact with at any given moment, and then to build toward a, like, shocking – a shocking dropping of the mask. Like I will be free and let the hair loose and drink and dance.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And like the burden has become so crushing that I have to, for just a second, like shake it off. Um, You do that not because you need it in the moment. Yeah. Yeah, but because you know there's not going to be a lot of other moments for it moving forward. Like, it's just, like, so keen.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Incredible stuff from the... DJ Droid. That's a banger. Oh, absolutely.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Do it with the room. We go on this hike. It's part of the tradition. We get a little, like, I don't remember how this works, some exposition, but mostly the purpose of that scene, we move from Perrin to Perrin and Davo to... the young bride and groom-to-be. But really, it's about this moment with Mon and Vel where Mon asks about Cinta, her friend.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, I was thrilled to be back. I thought that the return was just totally immersive and sucked us back into the world so quickly and so effectively. I was not sure how this release... cadence would feel and what it would mean to just be giving us a glimpse inside of a year and move across four years in the timeline in this season when the first season covered one year.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
You know? Yeah, yeah. Your friend, Cinta? Yeah, that was handy. I loved the idea here because we learned from Vel that she hasn't actually seen Cinta in a while. And she says, like, if she wanted to see me, she would. It was never going to be perfect or good, really. That killed me. Or good, really. Bad timing. Mon says she's sorry and Vel says there's work to be done.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But then Mon says, we have to live to do it, though, don't we? And this felt like such a crucial counterweight to actually a conversation that Cinta and Vel had on Ferex in season one, in episode eight, when Cinta said the struggle will always come first. We take what's left. And Vel was so shaken by that and hurt by it. And also in some ways, like,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
okay, this is a lesson, and I need to learn it, I guess. And for Mon, of all characters, to be the one to say, well, yeah, there's the cause, but if we're not living our lives, then what is the cause for? What are we fighting to protect if we're not living? Felt really crucial to me.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's like even more painful then to hear her say it one more time and then maybe not get to experience it or to know it and not feel like she can live it. Like there's like anguish in that, I think.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I mean, we hit a lot of it already, but, like, okay, what did you want to say about the actual substance of what he says? Pain will find you.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
This was great. But then also, like, everybody's reaction to this.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And I have no doubt that I will leave this season feeling, like, desperate to... Yeah. I never, like, trust a trailer just as a general rule. But the trailers for Andor season two were, I think, certainly through the lens of what Andor season one felt like, like notably action forward, which makes sense. We're moving toward action. Rogue One. We're moving toward the Death Star.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I love this, like, all around. I thought from, yeah, from the parent perspective, like, this insight that, you know, you simply stand still and the galaxy will deliver a daily basket of fresh anxieties to your door. Like, that he is an unhappy, genuinely unhappy person who tries to bulldoze his way to joy, who tries to, like, constantly imbibe and –
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
luxuriated in the in the in the gluttony not only because of the pleasure but because then he can tell himself it's okay like i had a good thing and i've papered over the pain but like yeah the white lotus season three was very on my mind during this speech because of like all of the the pain pleasure um uh oh my god examination at the at the at the buddhist temple and like this is just
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, like Perrin's a White Lotus guest, definitely. Like, we owe it to enjoy our riches. Yeah, get Perrin in season four of Cold Lotus, please. I thought that every person watching this, like, there was, I mean, this is often the case when Leta is looking at her father, it's just pure admiration. Yeah. None of the vitriol that she reserves for her mother. Notable. Vel just looks miserable.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I thought Luthen's face was really fascinating here. There was a smile, and obviously he's often, like, revealing something and covering something and projecting something kind of all at once. But there was something in his eyes there, and I think, you know, if we think back to, like, what did Luthen see when he looked out at Ferex and...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
the way that he observes people and studies how they behave and what their impulses and tendencies are, and then how can he use that? But also, like, are there ever moments where he is just like, I am not thinking tactically about the cause here. I'm thinking about human nature. Like, if we ever glimpse it for a second, even the possibility of it, it's interesting to me.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But I just thought Mon looked like I don't know, kind of simultaneously, like, she had a look on her face of actually, like, affection for him, I thought. Maybe tenderness is a better word. Like, almost like I pity him. Oh, interesting. And I thought she looked so sad. Like, just that there was this, like –
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Oh, this is how he – yeah, this is how he makes his way through the despair of our life together.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But like what does it mean if the person you're married to and share your life with stands in front of a room of people and talks about how miserable they are every day?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Oh, man. Very embarrassing all around. I loved it. Let's go to the wedding day. Speaking of hard to watch, Joanna, the antechamber mon leda moment. Mom thinking back. Yike. Yike. To how her mother was drunk and how she never understood until right now, this very moment, why. She's like, I never forgave her. And then she does the thing that we have wanted her to do, right?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Which is decide actually that her daughter is more important than the cover that she needs from this alliance with Davo and the way that she needs to set up the foundation and the 400,000... Like, no. Don't... don't arrange a marriage for your 14 year old daughter. Like there's gotta be a different way.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I think, like, my... I agree. I think... I agree completely, but I think that's what's interesting about it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
For Mon, it's actually a betrayal of her personal belief. Yeah. Right? Like, the fact that it's, like, a Shandrillan custom, and it's also a thing that Mon participated in, like, when they're on the hike, and it's like, when was the last time this happened? When she's like, me and parent, you know?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, this is... When she's pulled from one of the chats and hears that the kids had their first fight and goes to Leda, and Leda's like, He won't hold my hand. He won't hold my hand. He's a child. And Mon is like, I'm just so sorry. And her pain in that moment felt so real. Like, okay, Leda likes to study and talk about the braid and sit with her fellow young zealots at the table and is like,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like, yeah, I'm in. I want to get married at 14 in the custom of our people. That Mon is like, this is not what I want for her. This is not what I think is right. This wasn't what I ultimately wanted for myself. Yeah. But I – it's the tradeoff I'm willing to make and justify to myself. I think the fact that Leda is actually like –
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
let's do it, makes Mon's betrayal of self more interesting as like a character beat because it's more internal. So the rejection of Leda here when Mon's like, we can just tell them. It's not time.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We're moving toward the events of New Hope. But one of the things that, like, literally from the opening scene of this episode, I felt just, of the first episode, just utterly assured by is that there will be room not just to incorporate, but to center the philosophy, the poetry, the heart that you're identifying of these journeys. Because, like,
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
They're all so complicated. Like, you know, when Gilroy was saying of, like, your favorite character is the Maya pay brigade. Like, you know, the rebellion needs idiots. Like obviously Mon is not an idiot. Luthan is not an idiot, but the idea that just like, not everybody can be a like pure, uh, I am, uh, the, the like paragon of heroic justice.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Like that's not actually the story he's interested in telling. Those aren't the characters he's interested in presenting us with. They're all complex. They're all at some point, not only at war with each other, but at war with themselves. And I don't know if you've heard, But conflict in the human heart is the only thing worth writing about. I really agree. Did you come up with that?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's possible that it's come up on some of our other podcasts at some point. Yeah, can't remember where. Oh, George, you're with us always. George Martin, not George Lucas, in case anyone listening to a Star Wars podcast is like, George? Joanna, please... Walk me not into the circle. I don't want to go into the circle. I'd like that to be clear.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Hopefully it's there for you on Thursday nights. The Midnight Boys, pew, pew, pew, will have their instant reactions waiting for you on Wednesdays. And of course, Chris and Andy will be covering Andor every week on The Watch. And this week for the three-part premiere, they talked to... Andrew Showrunner, creator Tony Gilroy. It was fantastic. Great stuff.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
To the outside of the circle and take me through this custom that we witness.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Also, just, like, the kind of choreography of the snapping of the headdress and the wiping of the tear. Oh, my God.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's a no for me, as both the introduction at the... Wedding reception and just as a general idea. It's a no for me. I am interested in the cutting of the braid as like a Padawan? Becoming a, moving into the, graduating to the next stage of Jedi-dom? As like a comp? That's kind of interesting. Let's go to the reception. Time to party. And... Tay. Tay is wasted and about to die. Okay.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We talked about most of this already. He's just like explicit here, right? Looks out at Davos, says it's a lesson for him. Lesson for them all. Speak up, stand up, make your point. Every time I'm with him, I'm reminded of how timid I've become. Mon's like, how often are you with him?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Part of the, I think, and I know that not everybody agrees with this, but part of the gift of a prequel to me is that because for some of those characters or plot lines, you know the outcome, you can focus so much more on motivation. Mm-hmm. the lessons learned, the people lost. And so particularly in Andor, it's fascinating to have that mix that you're identifying.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
This final moment between Tay and Mon, she's like, I gotta go. I gotta peace out. Cinta's waiting in the car to murder me. He sighs. How do you think she did it?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Maybe. go with, like, poison. Poison? Okay. Yeah, passes him a drink and it's got something in it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
You're the best. What did you make of that moment between Tae and Man when he's, like, he sighs and And then he looks at her and he leans in and then he pulls back. And it was so charged. And there was just such a like air of regret for what could have been.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Oh, God. We got to talk a little bit more about this exchange between Mon and Luthen about the fact that Tay needs to die, because this was, like, chilling. This was the good shit here.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Do you know what I mean? It's fascinating. I mean, he's such a... I do think he's my favorite character in the show just from a kind of intellectual perspective. What does it mean to be the person, one of the people, we talked about all the factions, Who is like the driving thrust of this thing.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I think you say something like that and you don't... You are acknowledging and owning that you don't believe in it. That you don't believe it's possible on some level.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
No, but it's like, he believes in the idea of rebellion, but he's, he's building it with the component parts who he doesn't trust to hold up to last. Like that's just so that to carry that internal dissonance. And obviously he's defined by that in a way that he has, you know, he has made explicit, like, obviously we've already talked about, I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I love what you're hitting as one of the opening keynotes to keep in mind as we parse these three episodes because, like, we do know what happens to Cassian. You know, we do know what happens to Mon Mothma, but we have no fucking clue what happens to someone like Luthen, let alone all of the other people, right? So it's...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But like, I share my dreams with ghosts. I mean, if you think that every person you're enlisting in the cause is eventually going to let you down... What does it take to talk yourself into doing it every day? But also, what does it mean for all of those people that you consider their failure inevitable? Oh, yeah. Like, holy shit.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And then I just, I love, you know, Cassian and Jyn as the voices of rebellions are built on hope when Cassian is one of the people learning at Luthen's knee. Like, to come out of it on the other end with a different perspective on what people are capable of doing. being for each other is incredible. Like, I want to view Andor simultaneously in a vacuum and as this connected text.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And this is one of the, I think, really rewarding moments for that inside of these episodes. I love it. I love that. Let's talk about How Nice For You.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Of course you know. But she's not prepared to accept it and say it and do it. Like, a little Gail, Joel, like, say it out loud. Silly way through. Yeah. You know, like, is, like, Mon, how does Mon assess herself and how does Luthan assess Mon in terms of where she is in the, like, get your hands dirty.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Because as we've already talked about today, she is taking quite a bit of risk and she is vulnerable and she should be credited for that. But there's like a line still for her. And what Luthan says here is like, If you're not crossing that line, then are you in it? Really? Like, how nice for you is such a withering indictment of what she is ready to do?
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Incredible. I thought, I don't know, this is just incredible to watch.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
this mix of marching towards something inevitable and wanting to understand every single moment that led the character to that place. And then also this just looming specter of uncertainty. It's very different in Andor than I think in any other show, but it's in this respect, like very reminiscent of other Star Wars properties as well. You know, how many years were people talking about like
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Very human too. It's like what's actually worse and more damning being the driver who turns the car upside down so that Tay falls out of it? Probably what happened. Many people are saying.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Or saying you don't know what Luthan means and then going and drinking away your anguish and allowing that carefully manufactured facade to shatter for a moment so that you can pretend that you did not just... Be the drunk mom at the wedding. Yeah. Play a role in this thing. Be your mom. Be your own mom. Okay, Jo, let's talk about... Some of our favorite fascists here in the old empire.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We're going to start before we head to Coruscant at the Matheline Divide because Krennic's back. I missed him. I love him.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah. Dedra and Partagas are here as well. They're part of the select few who have been summoned to this secret meeting. Don't put it in your calendar. Don't put it in your calendar. And Krennic does a great job of simultaneously making the assembled feel chosen, special, knighted, sanctioned, and fucking terrified because he's basically like, if you blow it, the emperor will make you pay. Um...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I thought specifically the mention that like your superiors, if they're not in this room, then they're not cleared for the project was a really effective way of establishing like this is what it means to have gotten the call into this room.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Fuck you, Lauren. I mean, they hate each other. Oh, yeah. It's just always wonderful when we get to luxuriate in that for a second. This Gorman tourism video plays, and this was, I thought, like a brilliant stretch of the episode where it's like… One of the best things I've ever seen.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Very funny, but obviously in a way that is, like, supposed to intentionally be, like, tonally disarming these, like, odd adjacencies of things that make us chuckle. And then we're like, wait, we're at a Nazi convention about how to annihilate a people? Like, this is horrible? And that is what Andor is able to achieve in its framing and the scene work.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, those are great. And also just like papering over the like actual kind of true naked nature of the thing, which is part of the propaganda machine that Deirdre is here to point out is not going to be sufficient enough. Yeah. The looks. This was one of the richest scenes of just people casting side-eye glances at each other and, like, catching each other's eye.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
It's just really wonderful in that respect. And we learn what this meeting is about, which is, like, there's something on Gorman that's more meaningful to Krennic and the Emperor than the spiders and the fabled Gorman twill. And it is... Unlimited power? We literally get an unlimited power mention. I thought the whole, like... Tony Stark-esque, like, energy independence thing. This is so funny.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Obviously, like, they're making the Death Star. That's Project Stardust. This is what Krennic's, like, role in the story is. They need this mineral underground to coat the reactor lenses. But the way that he's, like, not saying what it is, but giving us all of the, I mean, the fact that it's Krennic alone is enough for us. But even just the, like, so the project's due in three years.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Oh, we're lockstep. Not everybody in this room is, you know. Here's the thing. It's gouge mining. The risk is total collapse. Nine cities, 800,000 citizens. And of course, this is a recurring idea across Star Wars. This is another version of what we were talking about earlier.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We're going to actually have to get the answers to those questions, like, in the next three weeks of our lives. I know. So that's just, like, kind of wild and I think injects a...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
How do you achieve inside of your story the constant refrain and reminder that this is happening everywhere while also being like, it's important to see it here? Yes. Seeing it here tells us something. We could be here all day listing examples of this in Star Wars. Obviously, in Rogue One, we have Jedha and the strip mining of the kyber crystals. We had Corvus and Mando.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
In season one of Andor, everything that happened with the massacre of the Desonites was because they resisted the Imperial presence on their planet. The Empire will take what they need from you at any cost, right? Over and over and over again, we see examples of that. Right. So the things that we learn here, like Partagas saying, well, they're not going to go quietly. Like, relocation? Come on.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
They're powerful politically. We can think back to season one when Man was advocating on behalf of the Gormans, the shipping lanes, all of these little crumbs. There are other things in the canon. I mean, it seems clear that this is just the beginning of the role that Gorman is going to play. We'll talk about it more, presumably, moving forward. But, like...
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
The PR guys get up and just basically do a Kendall Roy succession routine here.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
you know kyber crystal-esque like a jolt of real like supercharged electricity into the fandom and that's awesome so i thought this was really exciting um to be back i also loved my my season one rewatch and i just can't wait to like see where the rest of the season goes i'm i'm thrilled to be talking about it with you every week we've got a very robust text thread going with our guy cr already uh i'm i'm sad we only have three weeks left but i can't wait to spend them with you
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
The admiral who's like munching on hors d'oeuvres when he says, have you guys considered a plague or a natural disaster? And they're like, we gamed it out. It didn't work. The numbers didn't play. We already thought about it. Thanks for the suggestion.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Certainly seemed notable that in all of the various little debrief over coffee and lunch sidebars, Partagas, his reaction to learning that they are planning to install an armory in Palmo in the town center was, excuse me? Like, he was shocked. struck by this in a shocking and notable way, so that seems worth mentioning. And then Krennic makes his way to Dedra at the window. She's processing.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
She's quiet. He's like... He knows talent when he sees it. What's on your mind? Demands her assessment. He's like, I know you had a plan before those idiots stopped talking. And I love the way that she said, I'd like to know what I'm talking about before she finally offered it up. But he's right. Like, he invokes pharynx. This was fascinating.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Another good moment where we can really feel the passage of time because it is clearly – The stink from Ferex remains, but Dedra is so competent and so skilled that she has been able to survive it in a way that we can glean many others would not have. And what is the assessment that she shares, Jo? It's propaganda's not going to be enough. She says you need a radical insurgency you can count on.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Count on for what? You need Gorman rebels you can depend on to do the wrong thing.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
on the way to gorman uh is so fascinating to me even as we're like growing the character of andor and all the other things that the show is up to so yeah yeah i i i was i was just the sheer volume of kind of canon ties that were handled so well here in these first three episodes was fascinating to consider based on that kind of like a core relationship that uh the big tony has yeah of course
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Really interesting. Yeah. I like, you've clocked a few other aspects of these three episodes where we see the mirroring. And, of course, Luthan has acknowledged this directly, right? In the famous speech to Lani, like, condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. The fact that, like, when we talked about what Luthan was saying about Aldani in season one, you know, we need the fear.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We need them to overreact. Inciting, right? The Imperial response, close the fist. Yeah, right, exactly. It was, we talked about that so much in season one, like what does it mean for one of the leaders of the rebellion to sound like the enemy and then to hear Luthan really like, name it. Yeah, name it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
To see Dedra, like in essence presenting the same playbook, but for the other side, just felt like, What a full circle moment here and what a rich text. Dedra's got some regrets, though, about being so impressive in Krennic's eyes because she's like full Jon Snow walking back to Coruscant with Party Gas, with our guy Party. I don't want it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
But it looked like they were dipping sushi into Pepto-Bismol, so it's a no for me.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
That was an incredible... He had, as usual, banger after fucking banger. Humbling, isn't it? Both of us reminded of our place in the chain of command. It was also just historic. Yeah. It's just... When is it not wonderful to be with our guy party? We're not only getting a glimpse into the daily work realities of Dedra, but also of Cyril.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We are back in Cubicle Corner, but he's not sitting in one, Joe. He's leading orientation. I... don't know what is wrong with us that we love spending time with these characters so much, but we do, and that's just true.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Cyril saying there's a future here for those who dare after relishing and sharing the tale of his heroics when he uncovered a cabal of corrupt purchasing agents to this guy who's just like... Can I get my ID and, like, can you tell me where the refresher is so I can sit down and get to work? You're freaking me out.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
This was just perfection, and we haven't even gotten to Edie coming over for fondue.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
This was the best. This was my favorite part, easily, of the entire thing.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
So we're not going to see Deirdre in ring or green at any point.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
We are going to go today by like character cluster, Jo. So we are going to start where the first episode begins with... the titular Andor, with Cassian Andor himself. And the first kind of cluster we're going to hit is, even though this opening scene is not on Yavin, the Yavin 4 plotline. Wild stuff to see Yavin right here at the beginning of Andor Season 2.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
What did it do to you to know that they were together? We talked so much about what seemed inevitable in season one, but she's looking out the window, the opera music's playing, and she hears the door, and he walks in, and it's like, okay, they're not just together. They live together? They're living together? It's time to meet mom? Yeah.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
rubbing of the thumb over the lip when she's like, we can't cancel again. I mean. And then watching the rhythm of their life. Scary, scary bad people. Terrible people, we'll keep saying it, but riveting to watch.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
The prepping of the dinner, I thought that the fact that they both have the moments in the mirror where they look at their outfits and then we get the great moment of Deirdre practicing her smile. Obviously, all of the... They're made for each other, honestly.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
The way that they both... Cyril fixes the slightly askew fondue prong, but the way that they were both just standing there waiting for the doorbell to ring together was like... That was the portrait of their relationship.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
How could this not be the most fun thing you got to do? Don't you wonder what I thought you looked like? And then Deirdre saying, I'm afraid to ask was just so fucking perfect. There were too many good moments. at the actual dinner fondue scene to, like, we would just be basically reading the script for, like, seven minutes, which would be quite fun.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I'll offer up some of my favorites to you, and then I want to hear what your favorite moments were. Okay, it's a tie for me. I'm in a two-way tie, and I can't make a decision between Edie saying, doesn't like being called delicate, and Cyril saying, I was just asking if you wanted more sauce.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
And after the Kinderblock tale, which was like high comedy, but actually kind of an interesting insight into Deirdre's backstory that we'll talk about more in a second. Deirdre's saying we had everything we needed. Edie's saying accept a mother's love.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
I'm making you a wall-sized tapestry of him in that pose with, like, the one foot kind of kicking out.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Cassian and the Maya paper grade. Spoiler, this was my actually easily least favorite part of the three-part premiere, but even this had something wonderful to give us. I liked it.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Honestly, you know what? All worth it. Yeah. All worth it for Deirdre to be like, my family don't have one. My parents, criminals. Kinder block from three on.
House of R
'Andor' Season 2, Episodes 1-3 Deep Dive
Yeah, very true. All right. I thought that before the active Dedra to Edie challenge when Cyril has his cheek pressed onto their linens, just that there's a moment where Cyril is getting so visibly frustrated in classic Cyril Edie fashion and has been belittled and embarrassed. And just there was, Dedra looked at him And I was like, oh, this is real. Like, is this real? She cares. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Oh, interesting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Do you think so?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's in play.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yep.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Rubbing his hair.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
100%.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Poison smoothie was great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
100%.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Sensational.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, she does notice. Like the fact that she has this dream is clearly triggered not only by Lockie showing her these videos, but also by this budding anxiety that something is wrong. And then at the end, she does say to him, like, Tim, is something going on? And then immediately gives up and turns the lights on.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I've never been concerned for this many people in a White Lotus cast at the same time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I find it very compelling. To listen to him talk. Very compelling indeed. So on Tsunami Corner.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's right, yeah. The fact that the structure of the season opens in the future... And then we go back one week to watch the season. I think eliminates the prospect of an actual tsunami. That's a great point. However. Because everyone's just living life. However. But an emotional tsunami.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The fruit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You know, I think that it is engaging with the theorizing around the opening mystery very actively this season. And I think, you know, I was wondering if it felt like more pronounced this season. But then if you think back, like last year or last season, everything with Tanya and the Madame Butterfly foreshadowing, it's not like the prior seasons weren't doing that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I love a melon, though.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's the blessing and the curse. He's complaining about the time zone, how hard it is to get in touch with people, but it does allow him to delay the inevitable now for just a few more days and pretend that his life is not over. which it is, in terms of the nature of the life that he is used to living, the kind of life that they are accustomed to, that's done, right? He is a financial criminal.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I feel like Goggins will win the season at the end.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Great stuff. I thought the single best acting moment, to your point... that we have seen through three episodes so far was the look on Jason Isaac's face when he pulled Saxon out to have the come here, son talk. I want to circle back at some point to the actual genuine and I thought really sincerely alarming rage we saw from Saxon when he was yelling about how Piper
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Maybe we don't need to circle back to it. That's just, like, let's note that. That was actually scary.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, the level of, like, real anger that he was capable of generating very quickly there. But that look on Jason Isaacson, on Tim's face when Saxon said, like, I love working with you. I get to learn so much from you. That fleeting, shattered expression that...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But it does feel like the let's make sure, you know, the classic great storytelling technique of making sure everything
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
he had failed his family so deeply and the, like, they put him on a pedestal, perhaps wrongly, but to have to confront the fact that that's over, that that is about to be over, that the way his family sees him is going to change.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
every outcome is viable and the one that ultimately ends up happening will be supported in full by the story to that point but you could believe any number of outcomes like I feel like they're doing a great job with that so far Chelsea nearly dying twice in two consecutive episodes makes me actually less worried I know I was gonna say does that make you less worried and the character
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
My fear is that even if he goes on that emotional journey, his family will not meet him there. That Victoria will say that is not what I signed up for from you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, I don't have a lot going on.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, there's the meta commentary. It's delicious.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think on that front and what I see for you in your future, obviously part of it is he's trying to distract everybody, right? Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
there's a tactic at play there but like everything that's great in any White Lotus season there's more than one thing happening in tandem and like it felt to me very keenly there that he was confronting the fact that he had failed his family not just in terms of what he had done but in preparing them for a different kind of life but he's like I actually did allow you to think that it was okay to be entitled and just sit there and like not be prepared to build your own
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
for hardship.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, the whole family is impeccably named. All the kids.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Did we?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Thanks, Pam. Incredible Pam.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Incredible.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Tim powered Saxons down, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Exceedingly grim. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Is Mike White counting on us thinking this? She said, what Chelsea said to Rick at the end, you're not going to get rid of me that easy if you kill me. I'll follow you into the next life and the next.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, I mean, of course.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But do you think he, I don't believe he has given up his phone for five days. So then my question is when he goes to find it, what else does he stumble upon? Like, I feel like he's going to break into some office and try to get that phone back. Oh, Pam. I know. And then what else is he going to stumble upon?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Maybe Guy Talk shoots him because he thinks it's another hotel robbery? Oh.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm just really worried about everyone.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I didn't even think that this was a particularly good con from Rick. He's like making faces of dismay as he is luring her into his trap. But the fact that Fabian is at the table, first of all, we get that very emotional, quick little moment where he's like opening up, right? Before Rick interrupts and he's like, this was... The arts were not encouraged in my home.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And then he's interrupted and thwarted. But he does not like Rick. No. When they came off the boat in the first episode, Rick was like, fuck all of you. I'm not going to engage in your little welcome ritual. So the fact that he's there witnessing that felt very purposeful.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I obviously loved the conversation between Chelsea and Rick there, which was iconic.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
When I tell you I've never consumed one or thought about it once in my life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Absolutely no idea.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Our birthdays are a week apart. We're different signs. Look at that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was cosmically meant to podcast with you. So unlike Chelsea and Rick, you two are podcasting soulmates because your signs are compatible.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
They're available for a short time only. So for the love of coffee, go try them now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I thought this was a fascinating, obviously in general, fascinating episode for the Cougars, but a particularly fascinating Jacqueline Laurie episode where I felt more what struck me as authentic affection between the two of them in this episode than between any other pairing in the triangle at any point, but loaded and charged as always with all of the undercurrents of something less savory.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
They're genuinely united in something that feels, like, rooted in identity. And, like, Kate is on the outside of that. But even, like, when they looked at each other when they were doing yoga, there was, like, the giggle. Oh, yeah. That just felt like friendship to me in a real true way. But – I agree.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Jacqueline egging Laurie on here couldn't help the like, but you're the single one. It's not like just go for it and get laid and have an orgasm and have a great weekend. It's like I have to remind you that you're the only one who's like not in a relationship right now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Speaking of Allure, I would like to just spend a couple moments on Valentin's thigh tattoo. Okay. Which I thought was extraordinary. Okay. And I was- Are you going to get a thigh tattoo? Deeply compelled. Not since recent in the court of Thorns and Roses series.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't think he's involved in the robbery. I feel, and we've been talking about this since week one. No, but I do think he is going to play a... Crucial. Tragic and crucial role in the shootout. And what feels most likely to me now after the third episode where I still adore him, but he got one... One crumb, a crumb of hope. Shout out the Landman finale title, A Crumb of Hope.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Above me tattoo has been quite so compelling. Really something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was struck by that tattoo. I would not personally, but I did. And I loved the way they all looked at it and looked at each other. And you could just like feel the- You didn't need an energy healer to feel the energy in that moment. My goodness.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was compelled by that argument.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's true. Yeah. Like, that was not how it struck me. I have found them through three episodes, like, incredibly sweet and winning as a potential couple. And I am filled with trepidation and fear, but hope they will be okay and live a long, happy life together. Seems unlikely, but hopefully. But when Rob said that, it was in my mind watching in this episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like, she shows up, and he runs out, and he wants to tell her that someone called him brave. And like, look how big and strong I am. Would you go? Would you leave the island if you came with me? It was, I didn't change my read on it, but I see why Rob is clocking it that way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Fodder appointee.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, now you have to explain what Apex Mountain is again. Nobody knows.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Saxon saying out loud to Lockie, die a fucking virgin, is the first time I considered that you might be right. I have seduced you to monkey shootout. You have me with monkey shootout. I still say, I just think... I think this guy has fucked a lot of people and is not a virgin.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Have you watched the Landman finale yet? No. We'll talk about it. Or The Sopranos. A little taste of praise. And I say this with love for Guy's talk. fucking up his job. Like, they got in, they committed the robbery and he got hit in the head and then they escaped. And he was told he was brave. He was doted on and checked on by the person he loves. And now he's like, I'm tough. I can do this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I just think you and Nora have more faith in the undergraduate populace than I do. I think Saxon has had a lot of sex. But again, I don't think he's very good at it or particularly adept at it or has a feel for what other people enjoy about it. And probably has not had a second time with any of his partners. A lot of one and dones. Oh, yeah, certainly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I do think, though, something is poised to happen there with him pursuing Chloe. Oh, for sure. Is he going to try to enlist Chloe for Lockie? Are he and Chloe going to hook up? I agree. Greg Gary is going to try to harm him?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Again, he still could have just gone with Michael.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That was so funny to me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
When she called him a douche, I hear you're a douche.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I mean, they're clocking each other.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
They're at dinner that night. Wild stuff. Yeah, like the fact that he says I can't get my life back. I mean...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He's not allowing himself to get his life back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And he keeps saying he doesn't want to go to these sessions, but he immediately opens up and shares when he's there with Amrita. The best moment of the episode was Chelsea's like, please help him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Please help him. Please.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I mean, it was seven seasons into Game of Thrones, you were still texting us like the blonde one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She sure does. Boy, that was a tense moment. Was she going to be able to get that scheduled before they had to depart?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I know that the bodyguards, the Hollinger bodyguards have this appeal. Like, let me go offer to be a bodyguard. And... I think there's a pairing of Guy Talk Theory Corner and Monkey Theory Corner. You have won me over in full. Oh, wow. Here's what I'm worried about now. The guests, because we have that Belinda spooky sounds in the villa scene. Somebody hears something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm going to go to Thailand for you. Great, great strategy. Great life strategy for Piper. But Piper feels like we're meeting her where we left other characters at the end of a Lotus season, like Quinn at the end of season one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
iPad Quinn just wanted to crank it on the beach and then it's like, let me look at this whale instead. I want to talk about a character in an arc.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
My God. And so... Crank it on the beach.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Exactly like CR on the beach. But, you know, he had to work toward a desire to commune with nature and run away from the drama and his family. And, like, Piper's there already. Yeah. So... Her committing to that in full feels, like, very imbalanced, but I think Rick feels like a good candidate for the journey of some sort of awakening.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like, I don't actually want to live my life the way I've been living it. When he had that line about the snakes and how, like, treating evil things that way only makes them more evil, that applies to everybody in the show so far, but certainly applies to him. He's got to, like, free himself from that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I really like that. It connects to the question you're asking. People pleaser? You're a people pleaser? I like this because... With the feminine side.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But that's why he was not ready for that. Because exactly. It wasn't just about, okay, we're going to teach you to sit up straight. This isn't a therapy session. And he was not prepared for it. Though, obviously, all of these characters have quite a bit to work through. So...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
This is the thing. This is like such sloppy shit from Greg Gary. Can't bother to really change her name. Greg and Gary, are we fucking for real? Come on. Bill has been suggesting Mitchell. It was right there. You're still dining at a White Lotus. Belinda identifies you and goes up to you.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I know now I'm moving from the Chloe-Chelsea conversation about what Chloe has learned to the dinner confrontation, the beach barbecue confrontation with Belinda, but it's all in the brew, right? The fact that everybody at that table heard Tanya's name, now they just have to Google that. And they know who... Greg is.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It sets off a reaction from a panicked guest. And then our guy, Guy Talk, trained at that point to defend the hotel because there are all these shots in the trailers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And Rick's been, like, clocking him. Absolutely. This and that. Like, it's a fellow con man who's not very good at being a con man. I mean, good enough to get the money. You're there in the This and That Club. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But, like, who's going to use what they learn as leverage in that scenario?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Belinda's response to Greg.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Turkey trying to be a rooster, right? Yeah. Starts firing and then just a sequence of events unfolds. Like accidental chaos. So like that's where are all the guns coming from though? That's the question. So are you comfortable with us talking about none of us have watched ahead. We'll issue our caveat every time. Trailers though.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm not going. Oh, no. I would not be going to the snake show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So Rick is doing a little bit of the Arbats, a little bit of the Sawyer from Lost, and a little bit of the Harry freeing the snake before he knows he can speak Parseltongue. Do you think he speaks Parseltongue? This was... Okay, here's my question for you guys about the snake freeing. And great, obviously, that Chelsea just confronts him at the end and is like, Rick...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You freed a bunch of venomous snakes today. Like, this is not a normal thing. I love her. She's the best. What do you think the lesson is? What is the show's message to us? Because Rick does this and then something bad happens.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
One way or another. Because there's something about what Rick is doing here that feels noble and good. He's like, they're trapped.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I see myself in that. That's like a good moment of introspection. And also he is trying to do something like helpful and in theory good. Yeah. Chelsea almost dies.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Exactly. Great stuff. When Chloe's like, maybe you just shouldn't come on the boat.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Hasn't been not touched by a man like that in some time. Great stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. The contrast in. Her facial expression at that table where she's like evasive and also challenging a little bit of the contention that they're bringing. Yeah. And then the face when she's alone, when there's no one sitting at the table, when she's watching them. Each of them now has, in every episode near the end, has observed the other two talking about that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Totally. Jacoby. And she looked completely crestfallen, not only to know that they thought this about her, but to see herself through their eyes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh my God.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's true. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No. This is a big thing to not know about somebody that you repeatedly say out loud is your closest lifelong friend.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
They're not in touch.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I know. So you're comfortable with us talking about trailers?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, I thought, I mean, it did feel political, but it felt social. It felt like it touched all aspects of life. Like, yeah, they're coasting on nostalgia, right? Now, I think in some ways there's something true and kind of nice about that. Like the deepest or longest lasting friendships in your life, sometimes you do go a really long time without seeing or talking to somebody.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And the sign that it's a friendship you can count on forever is that that's okay. hey, you can always just pick right back up. And maybe there are things you don't know about each other, but like, oh, you don't know that I became like, or that I have a gluten intolerance is like that bucket. You don't know that I have a deeply like distinct political and moral philosophy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I didn't study it frame by frame. I just... Every trailer that they've released, the preseason trailers and the rest of the season on, Guy Tak is training with a gun in all of the trailers. So he's getting a gun at some point, though there are lots of other guns in the trailers as well.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, I'm curious if you guys, if it struck you guys this way too, like it almost felt like the judgment. I think, yes, if she's like, yes, I voted for Trump. Why are you saying that? And why do you think that's bad? And here's my defense of it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
who would you want to play have played in so many I mean it's Jon Hamm sitting right there I don't know how many shows he can pop into at the same time oh my god little hammy can just roll over from the hospital bed in Fort Worth right up to pull the plugs out right up to Austin for a FaceTime I want like Buddy Garrity oh you know what I mean like at that level that would be just exceptional McConaughey
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, well, man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That would also be great. Well, that would be wonderful. Good to see him again. That would be great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
This almost feels like it would be too cruel of a thing for...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
John Grace is like, sign me up. Where do I get to go next? The three-peat star of White Lotus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, he is the only one. Yeah. I think he's clearly alarmed to have been clocked. Right. Alarmed to have been made and going to try to ensure that Belinda does not out him. So then my question becomes, what is the counterweight to that?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, certainly not.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't think she wants to be around him. She has a freaked out feeling. This is part of what the, what's the spooky sound in my room is evoking. It's just a sense of unease, right? She's like, what is that spooky sound in her room? What? I don't know. A snake? A monkey? A lizard?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It could be. It definitely could be.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But they are going to say you can't let something like this happen again. And then he's going to be like, I have to. Yeah, I have to make sure.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yachts are always, or boats of any sort, big settings on White Lotus. This is where Tanya could not finish pouring the ashes or mother's ashes into the ocean in season one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Certainly Succession. The Teak and Succession.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
There are plenty of boat sex scenes in Game of Thrones. Very famous. Very famous boat sex scenes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That makes me think it can't be the setting of some murder. Terrible act of vengeance or murder here. So is Sex O'Clock. I hope so.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Great show. Great program.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Let's get some Tom and Greg back in our lives. You want a Tom and Greg spin-off? Of course I do.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I feel like some of our core characters are about to do some more drugs. That's what I'm hearing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No. It is the purest love you will ever know. If you, like Rick, opened your heart and opened yourself to the possibility of joy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That they're discerning and strategic and smart.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That was a gorgeous opening to the episode. Oh, the dream. A very trippy, druggie, delusional, dreamy episode. I loved it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Twice a week, yeah. Wow. You've officially put us in the Chris Ryan, the watch zone.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Is Rick going on the yacht, or is he going to Bangkok? He says he's going to Bangkok. But he said that last episode, too. Will he delay the trip and go on the yacht?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He invited the family. Incredible. We didn't. We didn't talk about everyone who has a boat. Yeah. Like Victoria's worried that they're trashy because they have a boat. Are they decent people? Like, yeah. They have a yacht. They're rich. Great stuff. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But Rick almost like, I think he, yes, he has to go to Bangkok and start running the con. But if he delayed and went on the boat and the Ratliff family comes, the idea of Tim and Rick being in a confined space together when they hate each other so much.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Greg Gary.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Joey, Chelsea. Probably not Rick. Saxon, Lockie. Oh, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
They got to do something with their time. Yeah. They got another bad time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I, Halo is a ray of light in my life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, sure. And he'd bring it to me. He'd present it to me. Yeah. And I would say, good job, Baba.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
With like a shoe box?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Do you think that's what was happening in Belinda's villa? The Mysterious Sounds? You think it's a cat? I would be great to have a cat in the show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'd say probably.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Bill, underneath anger, there's always a sadness. That's what we learned from this episode and also what I know to be true when you talk about cats.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It seemed like you were going to get one last year. It's not.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. She has a cat.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. When I get sick.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I can barely lean over to get a tissue. And Mike White comes up with season three of White Lotus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I try to avoid that by not being around my colleagues when they're ill.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I love the little, like, pill holster. The little piece of luggage just for the pills.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, man. A lot of I went away from.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Disaster.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't know. That is not a man who is prepared to face the, forget like chipping away, the shattering of his legacy and his standing. And when he was telling Saxon, we got to, you know, just kind of trying to distract his family, right? With the whole phone gambit. Like we got to like nurture these things in ourselves so that we have something else to give.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He is confronting the fact that that is not, he doesn't feel that that is the case about his life. He is not prepared to go to jail.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I feel like the pills in this episode were a gateway to that for Tim.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Because the second pill he took, he didn't tell Victoria he took it. She's like, do you want another one? He's like, no, I don't. I don't do drugs. But he had just gone and taken one. So he's already secretly consuming. He's trying to avoid having to confront the decimation of his life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Or his dead body. Boy, that would be a hot bummer. That would be really sad.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm glad you're hitting the vengeance note because he's a couple gravely voice register shifts away from just being Robert Pattinson's Batman in this episode. Yeah. Like, talking about his pursuit of adventure.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I mean, they're just doing down to the dear Mr. Sawyer letter here with the origin.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh. Oh, I was thrilled and eager.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We got Chelsea and Rick at the end of the last episode. That did not leave the impression on you that it left a...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It was a suckle. It was more than a lick. It was a full suckle.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It was very sweet. Not just the moment at the doorstep with the two of them, but it was very brief in one of the montages. I don't know what the treatment is called. Cradle the baby. Cradling her in the water. Yeah. I have never felt so sued.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I still want the feet one. Oh, yeah. That's a little about the wellness life.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Well, we got to see what it was like when you're not vibing with the session. Lockie's sitting there. Right. Defensive. People pleaser?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I hear you're a douche.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I could see her like charging Saxon for sex and it being such an ego thing. wound for him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He sniffed it out. That makes me nervous for Saxon.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The fact that... Greg slash Gary ain't known. Do you think he's going to kill Belinda and Saxon? I hope Belinda is okay. I just think everybody feels like they're in peril right now.