Mandy Moore

If someone had told Charles and Melanie that after their Tinder match, they would start a channel with crazy tasks together. So really crazy. Spend five days on a lonely island, crawl down a zip line on a belt, crack one million views, climb a wall with a lot of buttons and jump off a parachute in Egypt? They would never have believed that. But that's the thing with Tinder.

It takes you to places you would never have expected. Wherever it takes you. It starts with a swipe. Tinder.

Thank you.

No, no, I wanna hear. Y'all, Rach said no to me like two or three times. Really? Then she said yes a couple of times and canceled.

And then, so maybe I thought, I don't know.

Right. Yeah. But I, but I kept trying. Okay. And on the, like the third one, I, I'm a get there early guy. I always have been. And it, and it's actually not good. Like I've, I would like get to my like prom dates house 30 minutes early and like knock on the door and like. You're like, what are you doing? Like, I'm being prompt, sir. Like, she's in the shower. Yeah, she's not ready.

Yeah, she's not ready. And so I couldn't stop because it's also my acting thing. Like, for auditions, I get there early. I need to get there early and, like, lower my heart rate. Absolutely. And, like, see the door? There's the door. I'll sit over here. I'm with you. And so I got to her neighborhood and, like, went and got a coffee. Okay. Like, an hour before I was supposed to pick her up.

And I got a phone call. listen, I can't, I have to, I have to, I have to make 10 copies of this, of this.

Presentation. Yeah. I've told you. I told it on that Zoom we did over, over the pandemic too.

Where I played the song, where I played.

And, and I was like 10 copies of a presentation. It's eight, it's seven 30 on a Friday. Yeah. And she said, I have to go to Kinko's. And for anybody listening who doesn't know what Kinko is, it used to be an all night copy center because let's face it, you used to have to go somewhere to print those. And so I said, I'll go with you. And just because I was like, just like calling her bluff.

On today's episode of That Was Us, we will be discussing Season 3, Episode 1, Nine Bucks. Kate, Kevin, and Randall celebrate their 38th birthdays while each facing their own personal challenges. Plus, we flashback to the very beginning to see how Jack and Rebecca met and what their memorable first date was like.

It's like, okay. And we got in a cab and we went to Kinko's. where she had sent her order in. And it's seven o'clock at night. We're the only people in this Kinko's waiting for these presentations. It's a Kinko's like two blocks from her boss's house. She's gonna walk the presentations to her boss's house.

And while we're standing there, there's like seven employees working at this Kinko's and two of us. And over the house sound system comes Purple Rain by Prince. I've heard of it. You've heard of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I was like, oh, hell yeah. And I asked Rachel if she wanted to dance. In the Kinkos. Yeah, in the Kinkos to Purple Rain. And we did. And then we walked the presentations to her boss's house, so it was a real thing. And then we were supposed to go to this little Italian restaurant in my neighborhood where I knew the owners. It was like a little basement joint with like 10 tables.

And by the time we did all that, they were closed. You went to Domino's? Well, I called, and the owner was like, no, no, come, come, come. And so the owner, who was also the cook and the server, let us in and cooked for us. And we had our first date.

No, she was focused on what she, she was like, whatever. I was like, I was like, yeah, along for the ride. It worked. Yeah, it worked. It worked. I love that.

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We dippin'? We dippin' fries. We dippin'. What do we dip?

That's right. Come on now. This episode is brought to you by Heinz 57 Mayonnaise.

I'd love to send you some merch.

It's a picture of Sangria. Yeah.

Yeah, it feels it.

That was how Taylor and I fell in love, too.

You guys have a real romance. I met him on the Fox lot. Yeah. It was like some event. Some event. And you were there, and I was there. And that's when I met him for the first time. That's where I heard of Dawes for the first time. Yeah. Which... When I heard Dawes, I was blown away that I had not heard of them sooner. You're like, what? It's like, this is my band.

Like, this is my band. Yeah. And I downloaded every single album they'd ever recorded and started listening in order and then just texting Taylor as I listened.

I remember that. I was like, hey, so album one, track three, I had all kinds of like questions.

I was so into it. And I just, yeah, anyways. That's freaking awesome. But we haven't kissed yet.

Okay. We're saving it. Good for you. I can't wait. Okay, back to the show, guys.

Hasn't been that kind of date. This is, real quick, this is one of the sexiest conversations I've ever seen on camera.

The way both of you are playing it and looking at each other and the script is just like perfectly playful and vague. Really, really good. It's good.

So this is a moment. It's clearly like a moment in the timeline of the show. What was it like?

Falling in love.

To not have to do it like episode two. Exactly.

Yeah. She would just figure out how to get that email.

Just figure out how to find it.

The proverbial sweater.

A reminder for all of us, I think, that sometimes a ball has to bounce off one person a few times to end up in the hands of the right guy and make a story truly immortal. Come on, dog.

Even when I watched it for the first time, I was like, this is kind of a stretch too far.

Because at first I'm like, okay, okay, Steelers. And I'm like, how is he going to pull this on? How's he going to pull this off? Yeah. And the interesting part that I thought right before that, they show Franco Harris arriving home. Yeah. Yeah. after the game. I love, like, Franco took the bus to Steelers. It's a different era.

Back when athletes, it was like a blue-collar job, like a nine-to-five.

Security's not the same.

And to show his family. Yeah. And the family nature of... Very similar to... Yes, the Pearsons.

Yeah, it was great. But it's also a little bit of a head fake, too, because there's another storyline that we'll get into talking about Deja's father. Yes, there is. And you're like, wait...

Like I know there's the scene. I know there's the scene where they pass the bicycle shop and they look in. There's the knowing glance with the man in the bicycle shop. And Shauna, yeah. But there's also this. So you're like, which is the head fake? Which is the, what's Dan Fogelman going to do here? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But then it occurs to you like, Dan Fogelman's certainly not going to rewrite history that Frank O'Hara said.

She was like low-key challenging you? Yeah. But like what number do you go up to?

Yeah.

And Beth is- Convinced.

That boots are knocking and she happens to be right. Yes.

We don't know it for sure, but- And this scene has one of the best written and best delivered lines in the series. Which one? She tells you, you need to talk to your brother. And you said, say what? And she says, to get your hands off my cousin or I'll murder you in the face. I'll murder you in the face.

That's gotta be Sue. And you make her promise not to do anything, and she has to swear on Oprah. On Oprah.

It's not the first time. It's so evident from, like, the beginning.

Her opening line is, I snuck out.

I love presents.

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Call my man Toby. That's right. And very much like your first experience in old folks makeup, Toby looks like David Letterman.

It's a cool choice. He's like, Toby looks like he's running a tech company in the year 3020. His beard is like perfectly like sitting in like a perfectly modern futuristic bedroom. And you make this phone call. Are you making a phone call on like a see-through plastic? Yeah. It's a fancy future phone. It's a future phone.

Lots of speculation.

Are they not? Behind the scenes on that scene, we shot that two ways with another lady in the bed.

Did you? There was a lady in the bed. And we shot it with her asleep next to me. Yes. And we shot it without because they didn't know which way they wanted to go. Oh, wow. I love those little fun tidbits. Yeah, with and without a wedding ring. Covering our bases. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you didn't have the wedding ring on in it. I actually didn't catch if I had it on or not. I don't think you did.

Oh, gosh, I got to go back and see that now. I don't think you did. I don't think you did. I don't think I did. And I think it was like people were like, oh, shit. What happened? Should we have had him wear one?

This is obviously a heavy storyline, but this is also a very silly storyline because it seems like Dan and the writers cannot get enough of Toby talking about his sperm starting right now. And it happened so much. Did he talk a lot? Yes. It seems like at every turn, he's telling you, listen, you want to hear about my sperm? And guess what else?

And now this is going to be clipped, and it's going to be me talking about my sperm again on the internet?

We get it. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, so we're checking. We're checking. We're checking your sperm. We're checking the viability, but the doctor also says, but have you been checked?

These were the dark ages on set for Chrissy and I, I think. Were they? Like, it was just like one heavy thing after another that was just like... Oh, boy. Okay. Another, you know, like, it was... I remember it feeling different when we got into this storyline where it just was not as playful. I can believe that.

She says, it's like a black cloud that follows me around, and every time I get away from it, it catches up to me. I am so tired. I am tired of smiling and pretending like it's sunny out.

That's right. I'm going to throw these things in. Doing the most medically advisable thing and just throwing all your medication in the toilet. Cold turkey. Maybe not talk to a doctor about how to do this.

I'm going to have to talk about it in the next three or four episodes.

But that's about the biggest one that could be. I mean, this whole process of shooting these episodes was before I had kids. Yeah. Just before. Yeah. Yeah, it was before. 2003, yeah. Not 2003, episode... 301. I have two kids now. And I was not aware. I certainly had had friends that had gone through the IVF process. Yeah.

I was not aware of how common miscarriage was, how much a part of a lot of people's stories, when you're trying to conceive that this happens a lot and that it's not something that gets talked about because when are you supposed to talk about it? But the IVF of it all is another thing that's, it's like an impossible thing

to talk about, like the financial stress, the physical stress, the hormone therapies, the like, you know, just the act of having to inject yourself is a different, it has a different level of stress involved.

And there's pressures, you know, there's pressures, a whole different kind of pressure around that process that I just had never- There's pressure not only just in the success rate, but it's also like, you're spending a great deal of cash.

Yeah. Depending on how many cycles you have to go through. It's another 10, 25, 30, 40,000, whatever the cost is.

No, it's great. The show, if the show is a pendulum that swings, right, between the past and the present, this is like a clear delineation that the pendulum is starting to swing further into the future and further into the past. And the show like widens its scope to obviously when you guys first meet. And then as we get a few episodes in, we see even back into your high school days.

I was thinking about inviting her to my premiere. Yeah.

It's always good to see you.

I love Neve Campbell. That was great. That was great editing.

Yeah. Right? And you're not quite sure why just yet. Yeah. And the assumption would be because Kevin is unreliable. Sure.

Of her cousin would be the assumption. Very much so. A great switch when she calls him into the kitchen and she says, you, leave. You sit down. And as soon as he sits down, I can't even look at you. I can't even look at you. Get out of here. Get out of here.

And the reveal is she makes documentaries. Yeah.

That shit's going nowhere. Yeah.

That's also the moment we realize he lied about being a mechanic.

Feels like I'm home.

And that's not cool. The next thing you know, you'll be married. And maybe you don't want to be. And maybe you don't want that. You got three kids. Don't tell somebody they feel like home. And then you can't say, this doesn't feel like home anymore. You know what I'm saying? I changed my mind. It's a little more complicated. You can't say there's too many people in this house.

Yeah.

I just finished the entire first season of Paradise. Did you?

Yeah. So should we get to the fan segment? Our favorite part?

So we asked you. Our listeners of the podcast to send in your couple origin stories along with photos. from your early days of dating. I love this. Oh, boy.

Let's get into it.

Folks, this is why you want to find us on YouTube.

Pull the car over. It's adorable. Pause the podcast. Go to YouTube. Look up our channel. Fast forward to the fan segment. Oh, I love them. See these photos. You guys look cute. Congrats. Congratulations, Nayla Joshua.

Wait a second. Hold on. My partner and I met.

While I was dating someone else.

She had feelings for them.

Okay.

Okay, okay, okay. Maybe I'm wrong. So, wait a minute. Sully's got a brain, he needs to understand.

She had feelings for them. For them, and them is perfectly vague. Okay.

Got it.

Should we start there in the flashback? Sure. And walk through that?

Because, like you said, it starts with that montage, and we start by seeing this football player. Yeah. And we essentially very quickly land in Ray's Tavern.

No, no, no. No, no, no. I think so. I know I got that. I mean, what I didn't know was did her partner have feelings for the person or did the person have feelings for the partner? Okay.

Don't tell them who they are. If you're not watching, you go to YouTube. You do your own work.

Yeah. And if not, why doesn't Kira listen to this podcast? Wait a minute. I hope she does it, but also- No, no, we give Kira a pass. Don't give it away. Do number three. After you pop the question, tell her about the podcast.

Don't forget to like and subscribe.

Let's go. Email three. You don't need that title. That title's nothing. You read the damn thing, man. That's just the 30 mil.

Oh, I love this. Oh, goddamn. That's back in the day. That's back in the day. That's some sideburns after my own heart. That's back in the day. A payphone. Hold on. Let me get into this.

All right. Guys, you're in for a treat. A payphone, a wrong number, and the beginning of a life together. It's Liam Neeson. I'd like to tell you the story of how my parents met. It was 1967. And my mother, Helen, was 15 years old. Okay, hold on.

You're good. I'm going to start over. A payphone, a wrong number, and the beginning of a life together. I'd like to tell you the story of how my parents met. It was 1967 and my mother, Helen, was 15 years old in a small town in Vermont. After school each day, she called her best friend and they watched their favorite television show, General Hospital.

Yep.

One day, her life changed because she dialed the wrong number. But not just any wrong number. It was the number to a payphone in the public park. My father, Dave, happened to be walking by and picked up the ringing payphone. They both lived in the same town, but on opposite sides of the quote-unquote tracks, and all that implies.

Where you are singing. Yeah. And Jack is watching you sing because he's about to rob this place. Yes.

My mother went to the Catholic high school, my father to the public. They began talking by phone for several weeks, but my mom used a fake name. the name of her favorite character from General Hospital, until she was sure my dad could be trusted and she was ready to meet in person. Good for her. Their first date was to see the scandalous movie, The Graduate, starring Dustin Hoffman.

This choice, especially when paired with my father's sideburns and brown leather jacket, meant my mom's mother, my grandmother, was not an immediate fan of They were the only two people in the theater, save for the two Catholic nuns in their habits.

My father, ever the joker, led my mother through the aisles and rose, pretending to find a seat, and went right up to the nuns and sat next to one of them. Is this seat taken, sister? He joked. They didn't stay there for the whole movie. That's a long one. That would be me. There you go. They were married for 40 years when my father died in 2013.

It's all good. Non-stop, baby. Thank you very much. I texted you. I texted Dan. I think I texted pretty much everybody. Yasu. Everyone involved. I was like, you're all giving me classic you. Oh. While giving me something completely new.

The story of how they met and their first date has always been my favorite family story, and so I am happy to share it with you. I have attached photos of their early life together. Their names are Dave and Helen Hadley.

That's how that factors in. And he gets transfixed. And interesting fact, I completely forgotten about this. There's two guys sitting off to the side who are watching you sing. And they're like, look at this. And the guy says, look at this guy. He's a goner.

Incredible. There are no coincidences. Now, if you're not on our YouTube channel, the brown leather jacket is one thing. The pompadour and sideburns, the horn-rimmed glasses. The cigarette dangling. And the patent leather white shoes. Are just blowing my mind. This couple, maybe wrong side of the track, but they clearly meant for each other. They're killing it.

412-501-3028. Bats. 412-501-3028. We should know it by now. One more time. Sterling. Go ahead, Sterling. What was it? 412.

I can't remember. 4-1-2. 5-0-1. 5-0-1.

There you go.

Tell a friend.

Tell one friend.

You listen on YouTube? That's fine. That's great. We want to see you on YouTube. If you're listening anywhere else, go to YouTube anyways and just subscribe us.

It's a great time. It's friends talking about one of their favorite things. It's free to click it.

Listen, click it. It's free. Let me come up. That's the new tag. Subscribe, because it's free.

That actor's name is Paige Smith. Okay. He is an old friend of mine from Chicago. Get out of here. He is also a photographer and took Rachel and I's engagement photos. What? Yeah.

What in the world? I, of course, knew that at the time and hung out with him at that time. And I called him. I'm like, we got to go get a coffee or something. But I was like, that's right. That's right. Paige Smith was, you know, back in the late aughts walking up and down some center media on Michigan Avenue, taking photos of me and Rachel, you know, holding hands, doing like the classic, like...

Getting married.

And there he was. And there he was in the bar watching you sing.

He's like, I don't have any money. That's why we're here.

Cost five bucks in the carnival. More than half your money gone.

Seriously. I'm like, that's a... You know, I like to dip my candy apple in hot chocolate, too. It softens it up a bit.

Back in the Super Bowl episode.

One of my first high-paying gigs, have we already talked about this on the podcast, was a Snickers campaign. What? No. No. So when I was in Chicago, I auditioned for this campaign of Snickers commercials called Feast. Okay. And it was a Viking, a pilgrim, like a King George type character, a Polynesian, and a Roman. Five people associated with feasting.

Do you remember this? Okay.

Pause the podcast. Go find it on YouTube.

Wait, don't pause it. Unpause it. Listen to me. Go look it up. Now pause the podcast. Watch the commercial. Anyways, it was a time in commercials where commercials were like psychedelic and bizarre. Okay. Okay. There was a whole phase. Like Puppy Monkey Baby? Super Bowl commercial? Puppy Monkey Baby. Puppy monkey baby.

Puppy monkey baby.

Anyways, anyways. So it's a series. It's a series. This is a long story for no reason. I'm digging it. It was a long audition process. Were you the Viking? I was the Viking. Okay. Okay. Jeff Hiller, who was... What?

You know Jeff?

So he played the Pilgrim.

And you can still Google these. They're on YouTube, these commercials. And they got five of us together in a Ford Taurus in July in Staten Island. That sounds fun. Driving around doing Snickers commercials, eating Snickers. All day.

Yes. Every day for five days straight. But you're early in your career, so at what point in time did you choose to use the bucket? Well, here's the problem. Okay. A lot of these were like one-ers, which is like chew it, talk through the chewing, feasting. Gotcha. Gotcha. Right? And I haven't had a Snickers since. Yeah. Yeah.

This was over a decade ago.

You were outside.

Yeah, a nice sticky. And the fake rain that they had to use for the scene. Wasn't helping anything.

There you go. The beret was such a... That's a strong... It's a signature. It's iconic. That is a signature.

Was there any pushback from you? No. Were you at any... No, come on. Chris, stop! At any point were you like...

A beret? There was no question mark ever? Not just one like, a beret?

You're adorable.

Absolutely. You got you. Absolutely. So you guys are at this carnival, and it starts to rain.

They're going downhill. You're like, let's play a game.

Because let's go back to it. One guy gets struck by lightning.

We got how much left?

41.

Have they already played the this or that game? Or is that about to happen?

I think that's about to happen. Let's play a game.

Yeah.

Like it's falling. It's a real Russian roulette for a date. Yeah. Like you're like, all right, we're at a crossroads. Let's see. Let's see which road this date's going down.

Thank you.

So am I ever going to work again?

Bye.

The kids love it.

It became our

You were the one that told him.

I got him up, and I was like, congratulations.

That's right.

Like, I love- I love- I memorized all the phobias.

Jafarophobia.

I had the conversation, but it was still revelatory for me here. Like, oh, I don't remember any of this.

I'm like, a bridge? This is a thing? Okay. I have some grace for people, but I'm like, you're just in the car.

I'd be a little more freaked out. I was like, this is a little bridge in Pasadena. It's not that scary.

Sure.

That ship has sailed.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess I was so less than a week later.

Oh, that's true.

And you say- And he called it out.

To help him figure it out.

That is incorrect. Who gave you that feedback? Who gave you that feedback?

Yeah, without them being realized.

That's your reference for the good book. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's from the Bible.

Just so you know.

Yeah, I think we were last together, was it December? Was it December? November? Wow.

Correct.

It totally disrupts you.

All right, so we open, everybody's asleep. My man opens the door and the fire is a roar. Now let's also say, because we've been away for a minute, but there's been a wonderful setup in terms of the week before, two weeks before the beeping of the fire alarm. The battery, the smoke detector battery is low. And then Milo cleaning up after,

what was, they're trying to have the Super Bowl party, but everybody wound up bailing on him. And as he's cleaning up, the last thing we see is the pressure cooker sort of shorting and begins to sort of- That's when that song was playing. That song.

It begins to flame at the end of the episode. So now the audience knows they're slightly ahead of the Pearsons at this point. Pearsons are asleep at the top of the episode. My man opens the door and it's full on. And he goes right into, I gotta get everybody to blank out of here, right? His kids are in two separate rooms. He goes and gets Randall first.

brings him back to the bedroom, goes to get Kate. By the time he tries to get out to get Kate, it's blazing. And I was just watching this. He takes the mattress. He pulls off the sheets and everything. This is so Jack. Has the thing, and he blocks the fire with the mattress. And shout out to Hannah, because Hannah was like, I'm about to die.

The panic in her voice and her performance was like, oh no, this is real. I was freaked out. And just being the man that he is, Shields, you can see makeup had his hands slightly charred as he's going through and he makes it through. Then he starts lowering everybody out the window, et cetera.

This is a moment for us that we're gonna talk about because as the sole African-American representative amongst this group, this is an important thing. We're lowering everybody out. Like we're safe, guys. We made it. Then we hear . Now, Kate was like, oh my God, what's the dog's name? Louie. Louie! She starts, Louie! And he's like, and he's like, oh.

What was it like holding on to the secret? Like this is one of the first red scripts that we had in terms of like people not like copying or whatnot, like all of what went into keeping the secret as long as you did.

Now guys, I mean, I'm gonna be real with y'all and I need to know. You got two kids in the house. You know, your son is gone and whatnot. Yeah. You going back for the dog? I wouldn't go back for my son.

Your gut says yes.

No. Listen, guys. And I don't, I want to tell this to our listeners. I don't think that makes me bad. I'll get another dog. No, no, and I don't want that to sound- Yeah, or not, or not.

I don't, for real. Honestly, like- To risk, look, not only, and to Jack's credit, slash not credit, he didn't just get the dog. My man gets albums. He gets all this stuff. And I'm like, Jack, bro, I love you. You my dad on TV. But like, I need you to live. Like there's other choices that could have been made for other people.

The shot of, so the family's down there. Screaming. Mandy Moore tried to run into the house. But then Randall's like, come on, mama. Just stay right here. And it's a nice little beat of just watching the house burn. And for a moment, we're like, this is how he goes.

Yeah. Okay, so my man, he finally comes out. The hero shot.

It's a beautiful moment. He's got the dog under one arm. He's got the bag under the other. Everybody hugs it out. All right, that's commercial break at that point, right?

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Spot and Tango is offering an exclusive deal for our listeners. For a limited time, go to spotandtango.com slash TWU and use code TWU to get 50% off your first order. That's spotandtango.com slash TWU, code TWU to get 50% off your first order. spotandtango.com slash TWU, code TWU. So there we go. We're sitting in the ambulance. The EMT's telling me, you know, you took in too much smoke.

I'm amazed to see that you're doing as well as you are. Go ahead.

Correct.

Were they peering or were they bringing them inside? I don't think people were coming inside.

This is also, you said, because there's a couple of different houses that the Pearsons went and we realized that you had to change structurally.

You had to be like a hawk in order to read everything.

Well, let's stay with the day of the fire, because it is sort of like the crux of the episode. They decide that he needs to go to the hospital. They decide to drop the kids off at Miguel, and they go there. And the doctor, played by Bill Irwin, who is, shout out to Bill Irwin, who's absolutely wonderful. He's a clown. Yeah.

We could have sent Bill Irwin. That would have been really appropriate, full circle. That would have been a very full circle moment.

um he's he's sort of remarking at how uh like you know you did take in a lot of smoke but you seem to be doing fine etc we need to do they're really going for his hand yeah yeah yeah that's right right there's like third degree or whatever you gotta make sure that that's okay conversation between husband and wife and what dan was saying earlier like you you're kind of awesome you come you know super and everything he's like ah you know i try and uh

Hungry. People are hungry. I'm gonna go to the vending machine. You know, he's like, no chocolate and nothing great. Cool. And then he says, you know, babe or back or what have you. And he goes, you stand in front of TV. And she's like, oh, ho, ho. So she goes to the candy bar. You're on the phone with Miguel?

Is that what's happening, setting up where you guys are going to stay for the night?

And this is John and Glenn were talking about this shot. And I don't know if everybody clocks in. I didn't know how they did this. I didn't know how they did it either. But it was a blue screen behind her. And so as she's on the phone in real time, in slow motion, everybody is running into Jack's room or running around trying to figure out what's going on.

So it's this real... I don't know if I even paid attention to it the first time, but as I was watching, I was like, oh, that's... It causes this...

Yeah. Yeah, because she's in real time and everything else is going to slow down. So then Bill Irwin comes out. I want to spend a good portion of time, because you try not to take your flowers, but you need to receive these flowers. You need to just take this shit. Okay. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Because if you don't, we will get a clown to bring you flowers to your house.

Unfold your arms and receive this, because... Because this, so Bill's, uh, Dr. Irwin, I don't know if the doc's name is like, listen, um, something happened, you know, he took in a lot of smoke and, um, he's, he's not gonna make it like he, what have you. He didn't make it. And she's like, what are you talking about? Like, I was just talking to him. Like, you can see in her head.

Like, he just told me to move in front of the TV because he was watching Subo because Elway finally got his thing. And she gives him a look. She takes a bite of this candy bar. Yeah. And it's like in complete and total disbelief. Like, I don't. And she gives him a look like, bro, you need to back up so I can go talk to my husband.

Like, Jack, you're never going to believe what this guy is talking about.

So between, because you wrote it, And clearly you wrote it because you literally have her reference the moment before is like, I was eating the candy. It is the acting highlight of This Is Us. As far as I am concerned. We were in agreement. To be able to play those things simultaneously, right? And like the bite of the bar was just like, I'm eating my candy bar, bro.

Like, I don't know what you're talking about. To see you walk into the room, And then we as an audience get a chance to see his reflection in that glass pane as you just sort of like, it hits, you know what I'm saying? It's like an elephant sometimes when it turns, it's like, he tried to tell you, and then you have to see that shit.

And you're like, it's like when I watch, just real quick, at the end of Captain Phillips, when Tom Hanks is having his thingamajigga, there's moments that you look at as an actor and you go like, oh, that's an interesting take. That's an, I would've done it different. Then you see certain takes and I was like, I don't know how he did that.

That's one of the moments.

I've been sitting on it since this episode because I had to let people know. They think you just like a pop singer or something like that. They think you just do covers, umbrella. This boots be putting in work, Jack.

Yeah.

I agree. Yeah.

You know what- Sully, make a joke quick.

I'm trying, Dan. That's the rinse, but we don't need the rinse right now because, I mean, what we do, Dan, and what you do so beautifully is you try to take your pain And you show that it is a shared experience, that this thing that happened to you in a very personal and specific way is not foreign to other people's very specific pain as well.

And when they get a chance to see that other people have gone through it too, they feel less lonely.

Yes.

Chopped salad.

After you leave the hospital, do you go to see the kids?

And to tell them. And you tell Miguel first.

So this is the thing. This is just so you know what's going on here. People tell me I talk too much on this podcast. And they'd love to hear more things from Mandy and Chris because they have very insightful and wonderful things to say, especially on an episode.

We think it's definitely Ryan.

Why are you out there talking in front of the show?

I do want to say this. Okay, so I'll say this. Because I'll cue you up, because you guys, Mandy. Because you ask Allison to leave, you go in and you tell the kids. And I think that's shot montage-wise, right? Yes, it is. But the thing that's... really powerful and sort of that I relate to in a really interesting way.

And it wasn't on the day, because this happened on the day, but it was the shot of you in the car in front of the house, just giving yourself permission to lose it by yourself. Because you couldn't give yourself that permission in front of everybody else, right? And like- Especially Miguel. When my mom, was on the phone trying to call the paramedics for my dad when I was 10 years old, right?

It was one of the first times that I had seen her cry. Like my mom was not a big crier, you know what I'm saying? And getting him ready. And then, you know, he ultimately didn't come back into the house. But for me, like I, it was this, as a kid, who was younger than the Pearsons, like at age 10, not 30, not 17, but 10, it was this surreal sort of thing of like, oh, mom's crying.

We can't have everybody crying in the house altogether. And I was always taught as a Christian, well, he's in a better place. So I'll just go ahead and skip the whole grieving part and just be like, well, he's in a better place, right? I even remember going to the funeral and one of the reasons why I want to be cremated, when people say he looks so good, I always say, No, he's dead.

He's not there. His nose has been plucked all the way out. I can see straight up his nose. His skin is not the color that it normally was. And you ever touch the body, like at the funeral? It's ice cold. And I was like, oh, he looks so good. No, he's gone. The shell is there. You know what I'm saying? But he's gone.

So I'm relating to this moment because like at age 15, 16, of him being gone and going from Kelby to Sterling was coincided of this moment of just like bawling. And I was like, oh, he's not coming back six years later, bro. Yeah. I get that. He's not coming back. And the thing that allowed Kim to stay present was being Sterling. Like, it was like, Kelby is gone, or Kelby served me for 16 years.

I need to hear this name one more time. And I was just by myself, and I was just like, oh.

Oh, Sterling.

But that's what it reminded me of, because it's like, it takes a second, whether you're doing it for other people or not, but, like, just even for yourself. Like, grief is a necessary thing.

Right? If you push it off, eventually you're going to have to go through it. But like to what you're just saying, Chris, there's something on the other side of it. And while it's hard to even fathom, there's something quite beautiful, maybe not as beautiful, maybe a different kind of beauty, but something beautiful on the other side of it if you give yourself permission to keep going.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No worries. It was more about setting you up for like crying in the car.

Here's my BTS question, because I feel like there has to be a natural amount of intrigue, because I feel a need to ask the question, because I'm intrigued in terms of... This strange sort of parallel of life imitating art that you've recently just gone through.

Yeah.

Rebecca has a line when she's sitting in the EMT, whatnot, talking to Jack, and she says, guys, it's just a house.

And Randall says, but it was a really good house, right? And knowing what we know in terms of you and Milo both.

having just lost your homes or whatnot. What sort of reverberations do you have of having gone through that in life and having done it on the show? Are the emotions similar, completely different? I know it's night and day in terms of the actual experience, but I'm curious.

What's going on? How's everybody doing today? Well, how are you?

I just had to ask. Yeah, yeah. Lord have mercy. It's crazy.

We'll be right back with more That Was Us. I'm about to go on a trip with the family gang. We're going down under. It's going to be the first time that we as a family- You're talking about Australia? I'm talking about Australia. We as a family are going down under for the first time. I'm very, very excited about it.

Well, you said this the other day, Mandy, like you were like, once you got to 214, you were like, kind of thank God. Now we can focus on just the lives of the people, right?

I'm already planning everything, trying to figure out what we're going to do, if we're going to go see some crocodiles and kangaroos and all that kind of stuff. And we're also trying to figure out where to stay.

Yeah.

I like that.

Also, just thank you, Airbnb, for taking care of my girl, Mandy Moore. And as wonderful as it is to feel at home in someone else's home, Airbnb works both ways. If you've got a trip coming up, why not host your home on Airbnb while you're gone? It's a simple way to let someone else enjoy your space while you're off enjoying theirs. Plus, you get to earn some extra cash in the process.

How do we finish in that, the day of the fire? What's the last thing? I know we wind up telling Kev, young Kev, does Kate wind up going to see him on that day?

She's asleep in the backseat.

Yeah. And he goes through that, but what's the cap on the day?

So then we can address each individual thing. Toby and Kate. Kate on the day of the Super Bowl, every time she takes out this tape that was recorded. God, the reverberations of things that you have throughout episodes is really quite lovely because... there's sort of these tent poles.

Like, I remember, like, it's like, I remember when Jack said like, I'm gonna record this and this girl, you're gonna love it and everything like that. And then she got really mad and said like, dad, what are you doing? And then at the end of that episode, she's like, please don't stop seeing me the way that you see me. Right. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I remember that as I'm watching her watch that. And she's like, this is what I do. And Toby's trying to be like, you know, do you want to do anything fun, uplifting? She's like, no, just let me do my thing. And he's like, well, why is it? How come I never heard the song? Oh, it's because it's the day my dad died. And it's pretty tough. She's like, I'm going to shut up.

Like, leave it alone, right? That's how she spends the day. We see Rebecca and Kev at your house. And he's talking about, you ask him what he normally does. He says, I find a model. I try to get blackout drunk and make love to him. And that's how I spend the day. It sounds kind of, you know, not great. That's what Kevin says, not Rebecca. That's not what Rebecca does. That's what Kevin does.

Rebecca says, you know what? I make your dad's favorite lasagna. I, you know, prep it from top to bottom or whatever. And I sit there, I watch the Super Bowl and I eat it.

Like when they're knocking food.

I love that you have Rebecca like on top. Yeah. Yeah.

It used to be all missionary with Jack.

We have a special guest, everybody. You guys know Mandy, Chris, myself, Sterling, but do you know the man who created the show? Mr. Dan Fogelman, everyone.

I just said cowboy and missionary. That's not that bad.

They contrast it because they say like, no, not everybody is like, because Kev's like, everybody's so... depressingly sad. And Rebecca's like, not everybody. And it's funny because you're saying this and I remember reading the episode and I was like, okay, so it's Randall gets to be sort of like relief in this particular episode because things are so heavy.

So I'm like, if I'm too big, then they'll just tell me to dial it down. You know what I'm saying? I was like, I'm going to go for whatever I think is going to be fun. And I tickle myself. Like, honestly, I like watching Randall. And I'm like, he is so... Ridiculous. And you see Sue watching me, and you're like, bro, what are you doing?

This is for 20 little girls who could care less about the Super Bowl. It's like, this was my dad's favorite day. My sister wants to wallow. My brother wants to forget. I want to celebrate. This is a day of celebration for me and my pops. I'm going to go at it. And Faith has Lizard. The little lizard, right?

Thank you, Mr. McGiggles, right? And Mr. McGiggles gets lost. But that's just touching in with those two. How does Kate and Toby's progress throughout their time?

So Rebecca makes her lasagna. Yep. Right? She rides the Superbowl. What is the sign that she receives?

It's Kevin.

Because he comes, well, Kev also goes to the tree. To dad's tree. It's almost like Kev reminds me a lot of Sterling. Let us be clear, each tree is probably a different tree. Oh, it is. That we use throughout the course. Because one of them was actually in Memphis, Tennessee. You know what I'm saying?

But him having this moment of being like... Just sort of, I miss you and connection rather than sort of being distant and separating himself from it, but just sort of like feeling the loss and allowing that. That's kind of like what it felt like after six years for me. It was a really lovely moment. Does he, and does he call you on the phone? What happens in that conversation?

With Randall and Beth and the girls.

Dan gets nervous. Yeah. Like just, it's part of his nature. Like he loves going on X, looking at scenes, like what people, saying like in real time or what have you. Like it's freaked out. Was this the most nerve wracking for you?

Sure, no, no, absolutely.

Yeah, let's do that. Mr. McGiggles gets out of his cage. Is that the name of the lizard?

He gets out of his cage.

And everybody's looking for him. Beth winds up stepping on him. That's right.

And you hear the squish. And she comes back into the room. Second best acting moment in the series. It's pretty damn good. Yeah. She says, I found Mr. McGee. He's in the kitchen. I said, oh, thank God. He's like, mm-mm.

She said, he ain't giggling no more. He ain't giggling no more. So this is an interesting thing, too, because we decided to have this little... eulogy that Randall's gonna have for him. And this is where the edit is really powerful.

And even in the conversation and the parallels, I gotta say, this is really strange for Sterling at this point in time in life where dad had a heart attack and on that day, and my mom has ALS and has been living with it. And the whole thing is about how like I've experienced death and sometimes it happens suddenly and sometimes it happens over a course of time or whatnot, you know?

And you can say it's going darker than what it needs to be for these 20 young girls. So Beth steps in, but like it's a moment of like him just sort of,

you know feeling it just just feeling it right and this whole time tess is going through so i guess we got i go back one sec because just surrounded by women all the time and randall's like we need a boy in here like we're trying to open up to be foster parents again and there's a quick cut to this little boy jordan right who's just adorable and he's talking to his social worker and we're like oh randall's about to get this little boy in the house is going to be great right so

Then we go, Tess is sort of like peering in on things and watching what's going on, listening to her mom on the phone, et cetera. And at one point in time, she like goes upstairs and it's just sort of out of sorts. And dad goes to follow her and is like, what's going on with you? And she's talking about how, you know, it seems like you're really excited to be fostering and whatnot.

And it seems as if like, we're not enough. like you're always you're trying to buy buildings you're trying to foster other kids like i thought that we were going to be enough and i tell this to my son like all the time and you know the words better than i do but i was like it wasn't until you came that i essentially had the privilege of calling myself a dad And it's way more poetic than this.

And I hate that I'm not remembering these lines because there's something really beautiful that I say to her and I wouldn't be who I am without you. So please know that you are more than enough. So we throw to the future now. And what we think is this little boy who's about to start coming to- We don't realize it's the future, by the way.

We just think it's another story. Exactly. We think that this little boy's about to possibly come into the Pearsons' life. And it turns out we see old Randall for the first time. A little backstory, BTS behind this. I hate the makeup for original old Randall. Hot take. I have like a full fucking facial thing with jowls. It's got like a big wart on my neck.

And like my wife is like, did he just let himself go? Like what happened to Randall? I was like the dude who runs marathons and all this shit. Child, please. I would look at John and Glenn and I would just be like, Look, they have shots of like old Jack and stuff looking like a silver fox up in this piece later on the show. Old Randall just like, look, I know black men don't live that long.

But I was like, God bless America, y'all.

And so, and like casting, That was crazy.

Because Iantha, who plays older Tess, who was the social worker that we didn't realize was actually my daughter, right? Older Tess, yeah. Looks so much like Eris. Yeah, yeah. Who plays Tess. Yeah. That it's like, when people watch it, and then they go back, and they're like, you put her right in front of our face. Yeah. And we had no, which is, see, now this is something you enjoy to do. I do.

Yeah, it was fantastic. And so this is the first time that we jumped. This is like lost season four when they have the flash forward, right? We introduce like a whole new time period, right? And everybody's, and then throughout the next period of time, we will jump to this period of time and everybody's now guessing who's made it. Who hasn't?

Do you say we have to go see her? We have to go see her. She says, I'm not ready.

Right? Is that 2.14? That's 2.14. That was a big thing.

Yeah. So, and that's pretty much.

The point is, I watched the show a lot. I didn't mean to insult you. So you take the swings, right? You pay off... the question that people have been asking for the past two seasons, and then expertly introduce something else for them to think about. Are we at a place, I'm curious because I've even had this conversation with Dana Walden, where just the story itself is not enough to get

people in, like you have to have like the extra hook.

Just an eight.

We've been kicking it with my man, Dan Fogman. We're gonna keep him with us for a bit while we get into our favorite section of the show, our fan segment. We'll have more of That Was Us right after this.

We do. So here are some questions that we've gotten, especially for you, Mr. Fogelman. Who wants to take the first one?

But you did have things like, like I want to point out the foresight of catching footage of the kids when they were younger that you knew you wanted to use in season six.

So like there are things that they would shoot. Like we would shoot, I remember one like, was it in season two? Would it be like, you know, six something, dah, dah, dah. And you guys would go off and shoot these things and then save this stuff for four and a half, five years to use it later.

You also, the hugest pivot that the show made to accommodate real time was the pandemic and George Floyd. And like you really being intentional and saying like, I think our show has the ability to address these things and doing it while still keeping the track moving with the rest of the narrative of the show. I still have the hate mail to prove it, yeah. I'm sure, tons. Some of my favorites.

Go ahead.

I would pitch that as like that family that intersected with them and like the people that moved into the house, like as a house thing.

All right, here's one. Could someone please ask Dan Fogelman what on earth he was trying to do to us single women? Because guys, as a long-term fan of the show, I am telling you that Jack Pearson, I mean all the men on the show, of course, but Jack is something else, is one hell of a target for men to live up to. What's a woman meant to do out here in the real world?

The idealization of Jack, like what were you trying to do? Like ruin him for everybody?

No.

But that also has to do with Milo sort of stepping in, because you would have pictured him slightly different physically, right, initially?

I also think the way he was written, bro, is it's his imperfection that actually makes him want to get, people want to get inside more. His mystery, right, draws women.

If Sylvester Stallone exists in the This Is Us universe, who plays Rocky's son in the movie Rocky Balboa from 2006? And if it's still Milo, does that mean that Jack just looks a lot like Milo?

Before we delve a little bit further into this episode, this is an interesting thing because you, up to this point, name them off. There's Grandfather, there's Galavant, there's The Neighbors. What else did you have on the air that had run at least one season?

Wow. We'll sign off. Thank you guys so much for these questions. This was great. This is our time with Dan Fogelman. Is there anything... I mean, you're on to a new show right now. We get a chance to do this thing together. In the midst of doing the new, what, if anything, do you miss of the old?

Guys, thank you so much. Thanks for listening. Dan, thank you. Thank you for coming in. We appreciate you. Thank you, fans. If you guys like it, tell a friend. Like, subscribe. Stay tuned for more. We enjoy doing it. I hope you guys enjoy listening and or watching. We love you. We'll see you next week. Bye. Later.

That Was Us is filmed at Rabbit Grin Studios and produced by Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Taylor Goldsmith and Griffin Goldsmith.

Da da da dum Da da dum That was us

We've grown up so much since you were last on.

Did it feel, and did it feel good from jump? Like when did it feel like, okay, they're listening to me in a way that maybe they hadn't listened to me before?

So, full disclosure, we were going to try to do this episode a few times before. We thought about doing it with just ourselves. And then we said, man, we had to hold on to this secret for such a long time and tease it out. Do you know how Jack passed away? Yes, we know how Jack passed away. People had all these sorts of theories about it.

It didn't feel right to not do it without the man who built up to this moment. So, Fogman, thanks for joining us once again. We appreciate having You okay? You look good. Thanks. He's got his paradise hat on. I just realized. I appreciate that. I'm coming from work, so I didn't even know. Cross promotion.

I can get you a paradise hat. Great. Cool. No worries. No worries. So we're talking about 214. It's the fire. We talked a little bit about it with John and Glenn, who also directed the episode. But talk to us in terms of like... You're known now at this point in time of sort of like building suspense, the turns, the twist, et cetera, and sort of keeping people on the edge of their seat.

And instead of sending him down this one path, this one story that he already knows the ending to, he's gonna get him help. And he's taking a chance on him. And he asks him if he ever finds himself in a situation where he potentially is going to be writing the ending that he as the judge expects, he wants him to picture his face.

His ugly mug. It's too old, too fat. Too fat. I was like, you're not being kind to yourself, sir. I was like, you have a very kind face.

Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. He must. Yes. It's like something ingrained in me from childhood. Yeah. Yeah. TGIF. So then I love that we have these sort of, we have this flashback or flash forward, I guess, to older.

A flash forward. forward back or back forward?

To older William getting his cancer diagnosis.

And... Wait! Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm jumping ahead.

Oftentimes when we have flashback scenes to the children being quite little, like toddler age and maybe even younger than that, they're different kids all the time. And so sometimes children are children. They're toddlers. They're not supposed to be on-camera talent that listen to direction.

The geniusness of the show. I was like, come on.

So moments before, he was going to shoot up and then his son arrives at his door and changes the course of his life.

It was an exceptional moment.

Beautiful montage. I wept. This is all juxtaposed with- Wait, can I finish this part?

Yes.

You? I don't know. Yeah, Delroy and this judge that was in charge of William's life. That was great.

on today's episode of that was us we will be discussing season 2 episode 7 the most disappointed man Randall adjusts to the foster system Kate and Toby take the next step in their relationship Kevin visits Sophie in New York and Jack and Rebecca finalize Randall's adoption

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That is such a good idea. We should put them. Seriously, guitar cases, all the stuff. Yes, and all of the instruments that he tracks when he's traveling and checks. Wow.

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There were, I think it was the same three for maybe two days of work that was split up, taking the pictures, which was sort of something that happens in the beginning of the episode. We're taking like family pictures. And then the actual courthouse scenes, like in front of the judge, it was the same children. And they're

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The foster system and the legal system.

You know her story without really knowing.

Come on, man. Ye without sin cast the first stone.

Yeah, whatever the situation may be.

Like, energetically, it's just, ugh.

She opted out of the visit.

they were wonderful and so adorable, but they're also kids and they're cranky because their naps are being pushed in weird directions and stuff. So I just remember it being maybe one of the more challenging shoots with kids that are, you know, one or one and a half or something.

Understandably.

I can't imagine how emotionally, physically, soul taxing it is.

I apologize. I put you and the whole system in a box, and I don't fully understand.

I'm like, okay. Yeah, even in the course of the episode. Yeah. It's, yeah, completely flipped.

I want to see you angry, just like on the sidelines and not at me.

It didn't require a lot of acting in terms of like juggling the children. So yes, I remember that. And I remember obviously working with the incredible Delroy Lindo. Milo and I had some scenes with him and he was very intimidating, which was perfect. I'm not sure if he was in character the entire time or if this is just... His presence, his life.

Yeah.

You understand both perspectives. Yeah.

Let's do Kev.

So he's stalling, he calls Sophie and is stalling on going to visit this, to go to New York to visit her, I guess to move to New York.

Darker, yes. He just knows that things are, yeah, things are spiraling in the wrong direction for him. He's calling Sophie, telling her he's not actually going to be able to make the trip.

Lies, and effortlessly.

Then he decides he's going to go see her.

Yes.

But is that also, you think, what potentially pushes him to go to the jewelry store and make sort of a big gesture? Maybe thinks about his father and thinks about what his dad would have done.

And, I mean, he says as much in the jewelry store. Like, ugh, whenever my dad messed up with my mom, he always went and got her a big piece of jewelry or something. And he decides he's going to go see Sophie. He's going to try to make things right. And he's going to bring three rings with him. Sure.

Our social worker, Paula, is coming over. And Jack and Rebecca want to make the best impression, obviously. They are just, they want to mind their P's and Q's and do everything right and keep it tight. And this is their child. So whatever they have to do to sort of get over the finish line.

Yes, visiting Soph.

So yeah, he sort of falls asleep in the waiting room waiting for her because she's gone to another hospital for another shift or something like that.

Yes, and in the course of this, he sees himself as a father and sees him and Sophie back together, and it's just... It's not a good look. It's not what he would have dreamt of.

And she's confused. Like, I didn't know you, I heard you were here, but then when I went back to the hospital, you were gone.

And he's like, yeah.

Yeah, he also says that he's trying to be his dad or to be Toby and he's playing a part. Right. Like, it's not him. It's not the real him.

None of that is. This is the real him.

And sound. And sound. It was like such a visceral, like wounded.

No, a lesser show, yeah.

She just like makes this guttural sort of moan. Yeah, yeah. And like shuts the door.

Yeah.

That's the end of Kevin and Sophie for the foreseeable future.

That was so fun. Ah! Chris, thank God Toby brings the levity.

Yeah, you bring the levity to this show. It's so necessary. It's so needed. And again, I feel like it's the thing people forget about the show. It's like, it's so fucking funny.

It's Kate's. Well, let's get married.

Even though... She may need a wedding. And she convinces both of them and herself, really. Like, this is why having a big wedding would not be the move. It's too stressful. And she makes every excuse under the book. And you're like, okay. Except we, as the audience, knows... I think she actually, she is so close with her brothers. It is strange that this is the path she's proposing to take.

This isn't the way I pictured it. This is interesting.

That was you. This is me.

Yeah. So she sets us up to go to the courthouse thinking like the judge is going to rubber stamp this, sign some papers and we're done.

Yeah, like a two-way conversation.

Yes, but a lesser actor.

On a lesser show.

Would not have been able to pass that off.

I mean, because on paper, if you read... character talks to Earn on the table. You're like, ooh, how's this gonna go?

Bear with me.

We repeat it one more time. Just one more time? Just one more time.

And I feel like we are on the precipice of a lot of transition for everyone, right?

Kate and Toby are potentially gonna be getting married. They're having a baby. Kevin's relationship is... on fire, crashed and burned. And Randall and Deja and her being a part of the Pearsons family now is, yeah, there's just, there's a lot bubbling up there as well.

Same, and that our audience trusted us enough They've had, as you have always said so eloquently, they trusted us. They felt safe enough with us to go on the journey of like an entire episode that is just about one character. And maybe not even in this particular instance where there's a Kevin episode and a designated Kate episode and Randall, but sometimes it was a character that you...

Yeah, that you didn't really know much about. And they still were willing to go on that journey with us. But I agree, when we would get these scripts that felt like it deviated from the formula or from what we were sort of expecting next, I was always so excited. Like, oh, I can't wait to do this. I can't wait to watch this.

Yeah, so more to come.

The flex.

And you were exceptional.

And the most heartbreaking example.

Well, I mean, that just speaks to your ability because there's so much like history and familiarity with work. what you sort of brought to this character and this particular scene and just like, that this is your life, this is your job, just day in and day out, like you visiting jails and bringing, you know, reuniting children with their parents and visiting and it's just like, it's wild.

I wish I had worked with you, Mandy. Me too, me too.

Me too.

Yeah, somewhere 60s between the 80s, something.

I totally get that, though. I get that.

How many episodes of the show did you do? I would say three or four. Three or four.

Yeah.

Did you do any sort of research into the world of social workers?

You bring the power.

There you go.

Your work is exceptional. We're so glad to be able to celebrate you and celebrate it and so grateful you are a part of our show and a part of the podcast.

Yes, it is. We get so many emails from you guys. And we want you, our fans, to know that we really do read them. We appreciate them. We love them. That's right.

Like we thought this was just a- Yeah, she's not here and she told us like everything was- Yeah.

Helped me find meaning in my journey.

Gave me a second chance.

Gave my life direction.

Reminded me I'm not alone.

Changed my perspective on life.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're not alone.

Provided the closure I needed, but I could never find. Wow.

I love that.

We did, but it bears repeating. Go back to it.

Are we watching the same show?

You want to call us? Yeah, call us at 412-501-3028. That's our emotional support hotline.

Or don't.

Welcome back to the Retread segment. The Retread is brought to you by Peloton. Find your push, find your power with Peloton.

The most disappointed man on this episode of the podcast. We talked about how in the past, Mandy Milo got to work with Debra Orlando. Who's the judge? He was the judge. He is just such a force.

And really just how a reminder of not to put one another in boxes. Thinking that we know the story, that we know the ending, and prejudging folks is never the way to go.

As high as it gets?

And you don't know what to give him.

That is exactly where I came from. And the defense that they sort of give him, with all due respect, he was dropped in a fire station. He was abandoned by his father. We love him. He's our child. He's all we've ever known. We're all he's ever known. But as a human, I do understand where he's coming from as well. So it's like, again, the balance as an actor of...

Trying to sort of like draw that boundary and draw that line and going like, I can't let that infuse my performance or infuse my way of thinking.

Yeah, yeah, it's true.

Everyone's intentions are pure and you understand both sides of the coin, you know? But I just, I remember as the actor, yes, as the character having to like so firmly hold on to this belief of like, this is our child and we will do whatever it takes. Yeah. to get these papers signed and for him to like officially be a part of our family. So nothing is going to stop me, not this judge.

And I respect him and I respect his way of thinking, but I do believe that he's not correct in this instance.

Yeah, you're right.

Concede, he just steps aside.

So he shouldn't be the one to decide this.

And SKB, you were saying that you ran into Delroy, like, months later.

Jack and Rebecca are a little more simple. Their vocabulary is a little more pared down. So yeah. I love that. But I love that they then are, they go to this, they're in front of this new judge and she very kindly signs the papers.

Wow. I love that. Oh, her warmth. It's just immediately like, oh, this is...

I know he is so dang recognizable. I know. I was like, obviously he's gotten older, but. Yes.

His face, his eye, he has such kind eyes. Yeah. He has a kind face.

Yeah, this episode was like a surprise to me how emotional it was. Because I do remember the filming of it. As I was watching it, I was like, oh, this episode. It was challenging with children. Children are always challenging. And I think the trick of this show is obviously if you're an audience member and you're watching...

I lost my mother. Like a year ago, I had my mom, I had my girl. We had just, we had a son coming and now they're all gone.

Filling in the blank.

Yeah. I mean, I think we get to this point, the judge, you know, over the course of William's arc here, before he actually sentences him, he asked to speak to William privately. And you're like, where is this going? What's happening here?

And he starts to tell William like, you know, I hate that I had to sentence a young man earlier today to like 15 years and another man yesterday to five years. And basically like, yes, I have it written down here.

Sure.

Well, because yeah, he says, I'm a judge and I don't make the rules. Right.

Yeah, he alludes to the fact that he knows the ending, even when they haven't even been written yet, that they write terrible stories and I can't change the endings and how horribly disappointed he is in this. And that's when he... reveals that he's gonna take a chance on William.

To our That Was Us community, we hope that you are safe and well. The recent fires in Los Angeles County have been devastating. And our hearts go out to everyone affected, including our friend and partner in this podcast, Mandy Moore.

We really appreciate Airbnb's support. So we support them in their efforts to help people in their time of need.

Yes, he did. Probably behind Ken Owen directed the most number of episodes.

I did not know that he was a composer.

Hello, friends. It's Mandy Moore. Welcome back to a re-release episode of That Was Us. We today are going to be replaying one of my favorite episodes so far of the series, our conversation with Sid Khosla. Now, chances are, if you love our show, you may be aware, maybe not so aware, that a big part of that is Sid Khosla's incredible score. He was our composer.

Got it, got it.

How did This Is Us like come to you?

He wrote all of the original songs for the show throughout the entire series. He is just such an intensely talented human and wonderful friend. I was so glad to be able to chat with him. In this conversation, I remember vividly Chris mentioning how much he realized that the music made him feel safe while he was experiencing the show.

Was it the germination of like what eventually became the score that we know, the sound that we know?

In our conversation, Sid also talked about how he met Dan Fogelman, the creator of our show. They met in college and sort of the power of... Dan's strength to bring people together from all walks of life. Sid also made a record called Aerogram, which was about his family's journey, his parents' journey specifically from India to the United States in the late 70s and their experience as immigrants.

Yeah.

I'm just gonna show you the show. Dan doesn't want their imagination to come up with anything. I mean, here's what it is. Right. He has a vision.

So did Dan give you just carte blanche of like, go write what you want?

And he wrote this entire beautiful concept record all about that. Yeah. He talked about making music in his parents' basement and spending three days in the recording studio here in L.A. to make a piece that he eventually turned into.

Can you talk a little bit about how your Indian heritage or, or, or classical Indian, not classical, but Indian music or Indian, um, musical sounds influenced the score for this show, if at all?

No, but I mean like. No, you're right. Behind you, you have an instrument called a bouzouki, which is not a typical American folk instrument.

John and Glenn, who directed our pilot, were executive producers of our show, and Dan, and how that sort of, like, came to be this thread throughout the entire series of the show, and then... He mentioned that he doesn't feel like he's doing anything right when he starts a new project. He just sort of kind of like throws everything at the wall.

Wow.

I found the whole conversation just so heartening and so fascinating. He truly is one of my favorite people. I could have spent the entire day talking to him. He also treated us to a live...

Yeah, that guttural scream.

And I start singing.

um acoustic performance of one of his songs that was featured on the show just take a listen hear for yourself see for yourself you can also watch the the rebroadcast on youtube so yeah stick around stay tuned and we will see you soon happy new year

Also beautiful, but like.

You just playing it now, I'm like, I could weep. It's just like, there's something about it that like, you're right. It's like, you feel safe, but you're like, this feels familiar, but yet totally new. Yeah. I don't know. It's just brilliant.

And on a creative level, you've just talked about this in recent episodes, the breakdown scene. Yeah. Where you had externalized a bunch of this stuff. Yeah. And Ken Olin came to you and said, no, it's here.

It's right here. Yep. And there's something that you just did for us with that song, where you were externalizing and moving. And there was all this movement in the vocal. And then you brought it here and you focused it down to these notes and there's something about it. The song is still so full, but it leaves room for other notes, for the audience, for the listener to,

It allows the listener to feel without telling them how to feel.

Yeah, it is. It is triumphant.

are there pieces of score that you feel most like connected to that resonate with you or that were hardest to get to, or I'm just curious, like what your journey was, like stepping back and looking like from a macro point of view of like, oh gosh, you know, Jack's theme or the theme that was in the, the painting episode that then comes back around in the finale.

Like there are certain pieces of score that like I associate Kevin's like that number one, that score. Like there are certain things that I just remember and are so visceral. And I'm curious if you have any of those same kinds of connections or like ways of, you know, stories about getting to a piece of score that you feel like most proud of or like,

Today, we have the musician extraordinaire, composer for This Is Us, Sid Khosla. Hi, guys.

It is a mystery.

I was going to say, if you love our show, one of the reasons you love it is because of Sid's contribution.

Wow.

Your fingerprints are all over the show. The emotion that is elicited doesn't just come from the words, it comes from your score. And that was... Rewarded over time, acknowledged over time with awards and all of that sort of stuff. I mean, it's like, it's undeniable. You are just such, again, part of the fabric of the show.

price of corn.

Yeah, 100%. This is an interesting, maybe it's an interesting segue into what seems, there seems to be three segments for music in our show, right? There's score, there's music direction, which would be the collection of Sufjan Stevens songs and things like that. And then there's original songwriting, which you did quite a bit of on this show.

That... includes the seed of this theme that we're talking about. And it gets planted. You kind of play it on the piano at some point, right?

Right, you're on the upright planet. Sterling sings it. And it, of course, is the end credits theme for every episode.

Watch me.

Yeah, oh my gosh. And so we can talk about that theme as it evolves into what it became, as we talk about some of the other original songs that you wrote. I mean- historic, epic songs that were written for this show specifically. But maybe we can start there with the theme.

Yeah. Oh. So we come to find out that the theme is the theme for a reason.

And it is because it is this song called?

Mandy and I have a unique experience in that we have seen episodes of this show with no score. Before the music comes in, correct. Correct, as a director. And I sent a panicked email to John Huertas. I'm like, what I have directed is terrible. It is awful. And he essentially said, don't worry, Dan and Sid will fix it.

And then.

Right, so this is the beauty of it.

Give the little anecdote about what this guitar is. It's so fascinating to people who are listening right now.

Can you please just do that one more time, but just sing, that was us. Okay. So we have the audio?

No.

They also went to college with Dan Fogelman.

He's in the episode. Yeah. He's one of the musicians.

We are extending our hiatus one more week and will return with new episodes on Tuesday, January 28th. Thank you for sticking with us during this extended break. We will be back soon, ready to laugh, cry, and process life's ups and downs through This Is Us together. Until then, be safe, be well. We love you all.

I will say this. In a rewatching of season one, what I have realized that the music does for me is it makes me feel safe to experience this show.

Yeah, that's such a good point.

Invisible Ink and season three.

Yeah. Rebecca obviously always wanted to be a singer in like the vein of Joni Mitchell. And she comes out to Los Angeles with Jack to like kind of.

It's like this emotional guardrail that says what you're feeling is valid, what you're feeling is true, and here, here's this warm musical hug to allow you to just kind of feel along with what's happening.

The road trip to like drop off her demo tape, have a meeting, perform in front of like this A&R person. Obviously it doesn't go her way, but she has this beautiful,

He does afterwards. After the meeting doesn't go well and I have to face rejection. He asked me to sing it in the car. And it's kind of like the first time you see.

Yeah. Jack have any sort of like real emotion. I mean, his emotion as an older man, but as a young person, I think it like it cracks something open in him and for their relationship specifically. Yeah.

Yeah, Ken Olin episode. Yeah.

It was such a beautiful song too. I love that song. All of the original songs that you wrote. Because then for season four, the opening of season four, you wrote Mesmerized.

You didn't know that, Sterling? No!

Yes. Yeah, yeah, live. And they were instructed to treat it like a hit song. And they didn't have to try too hard, because the song was

That lit the making of a hit song in front of an audience of people, like a debut.

And you're safe.

Because you used to force him to watch all the episodes over and over and over.

And you would say, that's not how Jack would do it. Be more like Jack. Right. Close your mouth. See you again. Do you see what Jack said there? Do you see? Yeah. Try that next time. Taylor's voguing at home.

Which is technically temp music. And now you're chasing that temp music. I gotta get that lyric out of my head. It's so true. It's so true.

crushed it yeah didn't that song like hit like like on like it was like number one on itunes or something crazy like that this is fucking awesome it was crazy i mean that's just a testament to the power of the show it was like and it's obviously an it's a beautiful song but like i think people were just so moved by the show sort of reaching its conclusion and

the genius of bringing this theme song that everybody knew so well. And like now it's this fully fleshed out like version of a song. Yeah.

So tell us how you came to the show, your history with Dan Fogelman and scoring film and television.

This is a perfect transition because you not only scored the show, you not only wrote original songs for the show, but original songs of yours. Oh, you also have a makeup line coming out. You also have a makeup line. Right now, if you go to thatwasus.com for 20% off the Kosla lip balm. The Coastal Cards. We have the Trump Cards.

That's amazing. I want to say in the first three or four episodes had one of your original songs featured as part of the musical direction of the show.

What episode was that?

12th.

Oh, it was in 12th?

Yes.

You're right.

It plays over that.

yeah and so this is from the record that you mentioned earlier aerogram yeah and it is a concept album you said yeah and this song is about those cassettes that your mom used to send you yes would you play that song for us let me get the uh here i'll get it other guitar

Sterling's your engineer today.

This record, everyone should go out and listen to this record. This is one of my favorite records, and I've told Sid this before, and he's eschewed the compliment, but... This record, it sounds like a long lost Beatles record. It sounds like if the Beatles had made it to the 90s. This is what it would have been? This is what they would have sounded like.

The record is epic and I play it for my kids. And this song is on Bear's playlist. And he listens to it all the time. And I love this song. I love this.

Ladies and gentlemen, Sid Khosla, the composer for This Is Us.

Thank you.

Just a couple of hit songs. Just a couple of hit shows. And that's it. Sid, would you look at that camera over there and just say that was us?

Also, just this morning, Airbnb, our partner on this podcast, announced that they are in partnership with LA211, and they are committed to providing free emergency housing to an additional 25,000 people impacted by the wildfires. There are still thousands of people who are displaced and desperately in need of temporary housing.

So pretty much the highest level of lawyer you could be.

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You go for it.

So like, and you directed some of our most seminal episodes and memorable episodes. The pool, I love. And the Superbowl. So yeah, so I'm just curious to hear how well- It was our ambition to kill you.

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As someone with an active online presence, privacy is really important to me. I mean, since becoming a parent, it's all the more important to me. But also, I'm someone who does most of my shopping online. So I feel like all of my information, my name, my credit card information, address, passwords, all of that is on, gosh, countless websites.

Yeah, trying to figure it out.

Being kept at bay.

That's for sure, and you're not belted in.

There's so much levity.

Sorry to jump into the Super Bowl of it all because Sterling, we were just talking about that and we're going to be talking about that episode with Dan in the next little bit. But Sterling was, was asking just about the practicality of the fire. And I was trying to explain to him, I was like, we built a set out in like Palmdale. Was that like, where was that?

And like you built, we built the facade of the house. And I was like, a lot of that, a lot of the fire was practical. And obviously you guys can speak way better to all of this, but I'm like, we were in the freezing cold with like fire around us, like doing stuff in the bedroom. Milo was in the hallway with that mattress.

But like the fire was there.

Just sort of jumped out of frame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got it.

It was fun.

It was freezing, I remember that. It was freezing. It was so cold. It was very cold.

But there was no roof, so you were just like out in the exposed elements outside.

Yes, yeah.

You're like, this is why we became directors.

No, no, no, one. Just one? Ken did two.

Three and four.

Yes.

Uh, it was going back in time, I believe, like bringing, like the babies had just come. We were taking the babies home from the hospital. And I follow William on the bus. Okay.

You're Amanda Lee Moore. You didn't have buzz your whole life.

During COVID. That was quite a party. It was a good party.

He can't even say it. Very intense.

I didn't.

But you didn't feel like the pilot, like, oh, there's, there's something.

Yeah. It seems unsustainable.

That is so my cup of tea. I was like, I want Dramedy Contest.

Paley Fest.

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For a second, for a brief second.

Hello, welcome gentlemen.

Who is he in Cars, I wonder?

I wanted to bring you guys here. Thank God someone's gonna say it.

No.

Yeah, you guys gave him permission to be like, you're going to know this better than any director that comes in.

I've often thought about that too. I'm like, I would find it so hard to be a director going onto someone else's set and just like jumping in with like a well-oiled machine that a crew and a cast and everything knows everything far better than you ever could. But what do you mean? Like in terms of us as actors, like what...

I always, I feel like I always, because we had like the Ken Olens of the world that were sort of there as supervising director, producers and stuff, that like being able to lean on them when there was a director that would only come in for one episode and then maybe never was asked back or couldn't come back or whatever.

I feel like leaning on, on a Ken or leaning on the writer of the episode was, was something that as time went on, I mean, Chris and I often talk about this, like we had never done TV before. This is us. And like, I didn't understand episodic, like how things just keep going on and we just keep doing this. There was so much like to learn. Yeah.

But I, I found that that was the most helpful was leaning on Ken was leaning on the writer of the episode. And, and, And then Dan was always available, and Isaac and Elizabeth were always available, but...

And you can't do both.

And I feel like most people that were on our show that were asked to come in and direct the show were excited to be there and they were fans of the show. So like we were able to just sort of match the energy that they brought.

Yeah, sure.

And trying to understand where they were coming from and meet in the middle, I guess.

You know what I mean?

Go ahead.

We're back to that.

Oh, so that was like two something.

We just talked about it.

Like the festival?

That makes sense.

What is the process? How did you guys find like, I want to do this and I'm going to do this. Like how did you sort of delineate

I'm curious how This Is Us came to you. I mean, obviously you guys have the relationship with Dan and I'm sure after like the success of Crazy Stupid Love, I'm sure you guys were all like, we've got to figure out something else to do together. But like, how did it come to you? And then you guys are also obviously executive producers on the show.

Is interpreting. Is interpreting. Yeah. Impromptu stump speech. Impromptu. And he's like, if your dope ass sister just keeps interpreting for me. And she perks up like such as like, she felt so full and proud or whatnot. I was like, it was my favorite thing. And so at the end of it, well, this is Kevin and Randall together. And Kev is talking to Randall early in the episode.

And he's saying like, you remember we had this room and there was like this little piece of wallpaper that was sort of coming off at the corner or what have you. And then like, we couldn't help ourselves. And we just kept pulling at the wallpaper until we saw like this whole blue wall underneath it or what have you. So he re-references that conversation with regards to like,

why he sort of fixated on finding out more about dad. Because in the restaurant as well, when they were there, he's like, look, Dad was pretty clear. Randall says dad was pretty clear. Like this wasn't a part of his life that he necessarily wanted to share. Right? And then at the end of the episode, Kev's like, I think I kind of got to, you know, follow this as far as I can.

I said, you got to pull the wallpaper. He says, yeah, I do. And I said, I hope you find what you're looking for. Right? Which is a beautiful moment. And then Tim Joe comes in at the end and he's looking at the campaign office and he's talking about his grandmother. And this moved me. And it moved me in a way that I think even like right now, it's like the power of the vote.

And in the midst of where we are as a country politically or whatnot, and I know through the election cycle, the level of disenchantment with like, does it matter? I felt like there's a lot of people that had a real strong feeling of like, whether I do or whether I don't, it doesn't really matter.

Doesn't move the needle. So for Tim Joe to come in and say, look, my grandmother who moved here, from Korea has never voted in her life. She didn't vote there. She hasn't voted here, whatnot. But she can't stop talking about the black man that she met with the nice hands today. And this is a real thing for Sterling because I do moisturize. You do. They're very nice hands.

And I try to keep them soft. I don't like the hard hands. They're very soft. It's usually a circle butter.

Thank you very much. They're very soft. It gets it done. Very, very soft. Thank you, Sonia. I appreciate that. One more time. One more time. They're just so soft. I appreciate it. But he says in the context of the speech, he goes, but she can't stop talking about the black guy with the nice hands and whatnot. And for the first time in 75 years, she registered to vote.

And I got a little misty, like watching it all play out. Tim Joe says that, or Jay Wan says, says that I'm a political science major from here. I've worked on other campaigns. I heard you don't have a campaign manager. I like the job. I say, what's your name? He goes, Jaewon. But, you know, most non-Korean people just call me Johnny and whatnot. And I say, Jaewon, welcome to the team. Right?

Which I thought was a really cool moment. Good writing. It's really good writing. And you opt for his Korean name. Yes, that you opt for his Korean name. And like, this is who you are. This is what I'll call you. Right? Right.

Gang, I need to plan a summer trip. Got to keep the kids entertained. We got soccer camps and like flag football camps and all these things. We can wind up going to St. Louis to visit family or whatnot. But I'm trying to figure out what's the best place to stay where we can enjoy our time.

orange dream sickle nope not a fan oh yeah nope that's weird if you don't give me dairy give me dairy if you're not i don't want dairy and citrus that combination yeah yeah i don't want fruit in my salad you know what here's a hot take i don't like fruit in my pie oh that is a hot take i'm a cream pie uh you like non-fruit pies

It's practical. It's easy. And it just makes sense, especially during the summer when everyone's looking for a place to stay.

On today's episode of That Was Us, we're diving into Season 3, Episode 6, Kamsahamnida. Toby continues to battle depression, Randall gains momentum with a new campaign manager, and Kevin makes a bold move to uncover the truth about Jack's past. How are we doing today, ladies and gentlemen? Hello, hello. Doing so well, so well. Another excellent episode by Vera Herbert. Vera Herbert.

Favorite flavor?

Peanut butter. Yeah, the salted peanut butter. They hit different. David protein bars are different. They're packed with 28 grams of protein. 28. Eight grams of protein. Yeah. Only 150 calories and have zero grams of sugar. And with 75% of their calories coming from protein, they beat every other bar I've tried.

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Somebody's already working the corner.

An empty-ass strip mall. It's another mall that's clearly lost foot traffic to something else. Correct.

It was so sweet, though.

And this white man looked at her like...

The girls are so disappointed. Tessa keeps giving her grief and whatnot. Do you guys eat Girl Scout cookies?

What's your go-to on a Girl Scout?

thin mints i love a samoa too yeah yeah the samoa is the one with the chocolate caramel on the outside yeah i used to just love what are the peanut butter sandwiches peanut butter sandwiches oh peanut butter patties are the chocolate covered ones yeah but the peanut butter sandwiches were my jam oh yeah straight up even even just the straight up like what that guy orders the the shortbread yeah really good delicious

Oh, really?

I like a pecan. I like a sweet potato. Pumpkin. Sweet potato over pumpkin.

She was getting harangued. The kids were sort of giving her grief. She's like, I should have gone with so-and-so's mom. She never forgets the swipey thing. Beth is catching it in all directions. Well, she's catching it from Tess mostly because Tess is just going, going, going, going, going. And this is the point I want to talk.

And then Beth says like three or four times in a row, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up. Yeah. Parents, are you guys there yet? Have you had this moment? Because it may happen with a slightly older child.

If you want to go at this weekend, this is cultural. Let's go. No, but listen. What?

I'm sure I will.

So one, I've only done it once. I think it happens usually when they're older and they're more verbal, just like it happened with Tess and Beck. I was cutting Amari's hair. Now Amari Michael Ryan Christian Brown is the sweetest thing in the whole wide world. But like cutting his hair, old boy just won't sit still.

He keeps moving and everything and you're trying to line it up and do all this stuff, et cetera. And he's complaining. He's like, I can't hear the TV. The clippers are too loud. I was like, you can turn it up a little bit. He's like, but you keep standing in front of me. I need you to move to the side. I was like, let me do this landing real quick. He's like, I need you to move now.

I just shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up. I said it like five, six times in a row. And he looked at me and his eye watered. And I said, I'm sorry, dude. I said, I just kind of need you to sit still so I can do this thing real quick. And I feel like it's being a little bit harder than what it needs to be. Daddy shouldn't have spoken to you like that. I apologize. This happened with Amari.

was six years old. Amari will be 10 later on this year. Every couple of months, he goes, you remember when you told me to shut up?

I said, yes, man, I remember. And I'm really, really sorry.

He very well did.