Marc Rowan

They were below investment grade.

It really forced you to understand the fundamentals of their business, not to rely on third parties.

But also a whole market was being created.

There were no high yield bonds.

There were no levered loans.

There were no ETFs.

There was no real securitized product.

All the products that we take for granted today that exist did not exist.

This forced you into clean sheet thinking.

The whole notion of PIC, I believe, was created in one afternoon, solving a problem.

The notion of silver-backed or silver index bonds, solving another problem, and so on.

The notion of a highly confident letter, the notion of bridge financing.

All of these things were basically problem solution, problem solution.

And that mentality of understanding the business, understanding the credit, but also having clean sheet thinking is certainly what powers Apollo today.

They're just innumerable.

But the story I tell about Mike is I was like a smart young guy.

I had mastered my craft.

I was well thought of.

And so every time the market kind of went sideways, I would get a call from Mike, and Mike would say, could you come from New York to California?

I would, of course, ask when.