Mariana van Zeller

It's the attention economy, right?

Wait, this was we're talking about Antifa.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think maybe that's what Jimmy Kimmel meant when he was... They have a handbook.

Antifa has... Yeah, but it's several different groups, right?

There's not one group.

It's not like some of these right-wing groups that are actually... Right, but you can say Islamic terrorism.

Absolutely.

I mean, like I said...

It's reported on them.

I'm not denying that they exist.

But it's more decentralized is what I mean.

Right.

Yeah, we need more independent journalists.

I think you're right.

Going back to the independent journalists.

It's partly why I've now started this podcast on YouTube is because I know it's a place that I can keep doing, if it grows, and I hope it will, doing the kind of reporting that I do that I don't have to depend on a Disney or as much as I thank Disney and National Geographic for having me all these years.

It is really important to be able to do independent journalism and not be...

And be told what you can and cannot do.