Mark Bittman

I mean, there are still – my partner also runs a food nonprofit that encourages people like your sister, works with people like your sister to help them do their work.

And we travel a lot.

And when we travel, we look at food stuff.

And there's still – even like Rome.

Mm-hmm.

You drive five miles from Rome and there's real farms.

Right.

And there's still this, you know, I don't want to romanticize it too much, but there are many cities around the world that are still ringed by farms and where at least some of their food is coming from within 50 miles away.

It doesn't happen in the States.

I mean, it's starting to happen in the States, but we went so far away from that.

Sure.

I would say the biggest obstacle now is fairness of land acquisition, equity of land acquisition.

And so many farmers have been driven off their land, especially farmers of color, black farmers in particular.

Well, black and indigenous farmers in particular, but immigrant farmers as well have been driven off the land or find it impossible to

farm and there are people who would farm if they could get land so you know it's a dirty word or a dirty phrase to say at the bottom of this we need land reform but if you're looking 20 30 50 years into the future if you want to see future the future in a positive light it's going to include land reform it's going to include putting or helping people who want to farm

get the land they need in order to farm.

Because you can't buy an acre of land in New Jersey and start farming on it.

It just, you know, it's impossible.

Just because the cost is so prohibitive.

So many answers around food are...