Matt Best

And maybe, Thomas, there's that sort of the next layer out from that is and you're talking about the minimum requirement in order to ask for a referral and having that credibility there. Clearly, we'd love to... Those trusted relationships are ones that are more comfortable and where it's easier to ask for a referral.

And maybe, Thomas, there's that sort of the next layer out from that is and you're talking about the minimum requirement in order to ask for a referral and having that credibility there. Clearly, we'd love to... Those trusted relationships are ones that are more comfortable and where it's easier to ask for a referral.

But if we step outside of that comfort zone, then looking at how we're demonstrating the credibility that we've got. And I know, Thomas, from conversations that we've had before, you... you share an example of how you would teach this to clients and using the conference speech analogy.

But if we step outside of that comfort zone, then looking at how we're demonstrating the credibility that we've got. And I know, Thomas, from conversations that we've had before, you... you share an example of how you would teach this to clients and using the conference speech analogy.

I wonder if it might be useful to share that with our listeners today, just to show, I guess, the other end of that extreme.

I wonder if it might be useful to share that with our listeners today, just to show, I guess, the other end of that extreme.

Thomas, clearly, there's probably a lot of people listening to this thinking, oh, my gosh, well, not only do I maybe not get that many opportunities to stand up on the stage, but also I feel like I have to take some smaller steps first. And clearly, that's what you're trying to encourage them, how you're trying to encourage them to think by demonstrating that.

Thomas, clearly, there's probably a lot of people listening to this thinking, oh, my gosh, well, not only do I maybe not get that many opportunities to stand up on the stage, but also I feel like I have to take some smaller steps first. And clearly, that's what you're trying to encourage them, how you're trying to encourage them to think by demonstrating that.

quite how any situation it's possible to ask for a referral. But what are you trying to steer them towards? Is there a particular point that sits between standing on stage in front of 500 people and asking your friend for a referral? What would you say is that sweet spot?

quite how any situation it's possible to ask for a referral. But what are you trying to steer them towards? Is there a particular point that sits between standing on stage in front of 500 people and asking your friend for a referral? What would you say is that sweet spot?

I think something that that highlights to me there, Thomas, as well is, and a couple of things that you'd shared that I just want to sort of pull out is asking an understanding about somebody else's situation first is what's going to help us in building that credibility in the conversation. It's going to be what helps us in building rapport in the conversation. Because I think a big part of it is,

I think something that that highlights to me there, Thomas, as well is, and a couple of things that you'd shared that I just want to sort of pull out is asking an understanding about somebody else's situation first is what's going to help us in building that credibility in the conversation. It's going to be what helps us in building rapport in the conversation. Because I think a big part of it is,

I know we would never sort of advocate for just turning up and shaking someone's hand and saying, right, tell me, who have you got in your network who you think you refer me to? These are the things that I do. Let's see how we can help one another out, right? By reminding ourselves that actually we still need to stay, we still need to be interested in them, not interesting.

I know we would never sort of advocate for just turning up and shaking someone's hand and saying, right, tell me, who have you got in your network who you think you refer me to? These are the things that I do. Let's see how we can help one another out, right? By reminding ourselves that actually we still need to stay, we still need to be interested in them, not interesting.

And we still need to start with questions and start with building an understanding of their business and their challenges before we then respond with, you know, with... with asking for a referral and then wrapping that up in Johnny and your point around sort of advice and guidance as using that sort of humbly, but also recognizing that if we ask for that, we are likely to get that.

And we still need to start with questions and start with building an understanding of their business and their challenges before we then respond with, you know, with... with asking for a referral and then wrapping that up in Johnny and your point around sort of advice and guidance as using that sort of humbly, but also recognizing that if we ask for that, we are likely to get that.

We are still likely to get that response. Thomas, just as we close up our conversation from today, we started with three key things that helped you in being successful.

We are still likely to get that response. Thomas, just as we close up our conversation from today, we started with three key things that helped you in being successful.

If you've got someone listening to this podcast who's relatively new to referrals and hasn't seen it as a way of developing business, how would you sort of summarize the three key things for those sorts of individuals to be thinking about and to maybe start to put into practice to really develop this referral habit?

If you've got someone listening to this podcast who's relatively new to referrals and hasn't seen it as a way of developing business, how would you sort of summarize the three key things for those sorts of individuals to be thinking about and to maybe start to put into practice to really develop this referral habit?