Matthew Cox

And then you go to trial, you lose.

Usually they give you 20 years.

It's like 10 times or five times as much.

So even especially with the dollar amounts, I mean, he had to be just off the chart.

Yeah.

Yeah, now they're probably listening actively.

They're probably in a van or they're in the car listening to the conversation.

They can only bring 50 cases?

So for me, it was like, who is the victim?

Who am I paying this to?

The government can't get a... There was a time, I want to say the law changed in like...

2009 or something where the government was, they were giving fines and restitution payments just on a whim, like, oh, and there was $12 million in loss.

The problem was, is that there was no way to account for where that 12 million was going.

And the Supreme Court ended up saying, listen, you can't arbitrarily stick people with millions of dollars in loss because you're keeping it.

Yeah.

Like we have nobody to pay that.

You owe 12 million.

You have to pay it.

But we don't have anybody to attribute to that.

So we're just going to keep it.