Matthew Cox

But yeah, but I'm there for, you know, from a humanity standpoint, Chinese counterfeiters now are using, uh, shell companies here in the United States for a lot of their purchases.

So if I'm buying, and again, these are some of the non-deceptive counterfeits like jerseys and sneakers and watches and things, right?

Almost all of them are working through, uh, WhatsApp right now, which is, you know, owned by Facebook.

And they're also using WeChat, which is owned by Tencent, which is a Chinese company.

So they're mostly working through chat and not email as much anymore, especially websites, because credit card companies are constantly shutting down the merchant accounts on the websites.

Right.

So what'll happen is you go to a website and you'll see this massive catalog of products.

The, uh, you know, shopping cart doesn't complete with payment and you'll see all the contact information, you know, contact us via WhatsApp or WeChat.

And, um, so you go on there and you tell them which product you want, and then they give you a price, you give them their, your address and all that, give them a price.

And then they'll give you, uh, an account to pay.

And it's often,

well it can't the easiest way to pay is by PayPal right and what they'll do is they'll have rolling PayPal accounts because my clients what they do is they have me make purchases so we can get the payee information so the client can seize the money that's in the account right right so what they do is they have these rolling PayPal accounts so if the one gets

seized, they have some other employee or a brother in law, and they're constantly creating new PayPal accounts and pulling the money out probably on a daily basis or a weekly basis.

But but many of them aren't using PayPal anymore because PayPal is very cooperative.

Right.

And some of these other companies are, too, but they're just they just don't have the wheels as greased as PayPal does as far as like an in-house enforcement compliance center, because it all has to do with your enforcement compliance.

If you only have one guy who's handling every subpoena, you know, it's going to take forever.

But PayPal is pretty

a while for a long time they've been really uh responsive and good so then you start having these like like zel right zel payments which you know i can do straight through my chase app but you can pay by zel well you have to have a bank account to use zel right so what they do is and what i've been finding and this is this is again this is this is i would say insider because it's not it's not um it's not confidential

But on the same hand, you're not going to find it.