Matthew Dalton

And into that void, a new leader is seen as stepping up.

And into that void, a new leader is seen as stepping up.

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Thursday, November 14th. Coming up on the show, how China overtook the U.S. as the world's climate leader.

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Thursday, November 14th. Coming up on the show, how China overtook the U.S. as the world's climate leader.

China and the US are the world's two largest economies and the world's two largest carbon emitters. So for the past few decades, any successful global climate deal has needed to get both superpowers on board. And the US and China each bring very different perspectives to the table.

China and the US are the world's two largest economies and the world's two largest carbon emitters. So for the past few decades, any successful global climate deal has needed to get both superpowers on board. And the US and China each bring very different perspectives to the table.

After years of negotiation, both the US and China finally got on board with a major climate agreement in 2015, the Paris Climate Accords. Here's former President Barack Obama in Paris.

After years of negotiation, both the US and China finally got on board with a major climate agreement in 2015, the Paris Climate Accords. Here's former President Barack Obama in Paris.

The agreement was groundbreaking. Nearly 200 countries agreed to limit global warming to less than 2 degrees Celsius. That meant cutting greenhouse gas emissions. The accords also included financial commitments from wealthy countries like the U.S.,

The agreement was groundbreaking. Nearly 200 countries agreed to limit global warming to less than 2 degrees Celsius. That meant cutting greenhouse gas emissions. The accords also included financial commitments from wealthy countries like the U.S.,

You were there, right, in 2015. How would you characterize the relationship between China and the U.S. at the time? Like, who was pushing who during these negotiations?

You were there, right, in 2015. How would you characterize the relationship between China and the U.S. at the time? Like, who was pushing who during these negotiations?

Obama considered the Paris Agreement a major achievement of his presidency. But less than a year after it was formalized, Trump was elected president for the first time. And within months of taking office, President Trump announced the U.S. was pulling out of the agreement.

Obama considered the Paris Agreement a major achievement of his presidency. But less than a year after it was formalized, Trump was elected president for the first time. And within months of taking office, President Trump announced the U.S. was pulling out of the agreement.

Then, four years later, Joe Biden became president, and the U.S. was back in.

Then, four years later, Joe Biden became president, and the U.S. was back in.

And that whiplash continues now that Trump is heading back to the White House. He says he wants to pull out of Paris again and ramp up the country's production of fossil fuels.

And that whiplash continues now that Trump is heading back to the White House. He says he wants to pull out of Paris again and ramp up the country's production of fossil fuels.

As the U.S. has gone back and forth on its climate commitment, China has steadily grown its renewable energy and electric vehicle industries. And it's now the world leader in both. Which means at this month's climate conference, countries are turning their attention to Beijing.

As the U.S. has gone back and forth on its climate commitment, China has steadily grown its renewable energy and electric vehicle industries. And it's now the world leader in both. Which means at this month's climate conference, countries are turning their attention to Beijing.

What are you packing to go to Baku?

What are you packing to go to Baku?

Will China step up? That's after the break. Around the time the Paris Accords were signed, China had a serious problem with air pollution.

Will China step up? That's after the break. Around the time the Paris Accords were signed, China had a serious problem with air pollution.

The world's largest annual climate conference kicked off this week. It's known as COP29, and it's taking place in Baku, Azerbaijan. Our colleague Matthew Dalton is an experienced COP attendee, and this weekend he's headed to Baku. How many of these conferences have you been to at this point?

The world's largest annual climate conference kicked off this week. It's known as COP29, and it's taking place in Baku, Azerbaijan. Our colleague Matthew Dalton is an experienced COP attendee, and this weekend he's headed to Baku. How many of these conferences have you been to at this point?

The accords were an incentive for China to address this issue head on. And there was an economic upside, too.

The accords were an incentive for China to address this issue head on. And there was an economic upside, too.

Unlike in the U.S., China doesn't have to deal with that pesky back and forth between political parties. They've had one leader in charge for the past decade. And China's president has pushed the government to invest heavily in green energy.

Unlike in the U.S., China doesn't have to deal with that pesky back and forth between political parties. They've had one leader in charge for the past decade. And China's president has pushed the government to invest heavily in green energy.

Suits, ties.

Suits, ties.

Right.

Right.

So under the Paris Agreement, China is considered a developing country, which means not as much was asked of it. But how is China doing in terms of curbing emissions?

So under the Paris Agreement, China is considered a developing country, which means not as much was asked of it. But how is China doing in terms of curbing emissions?

In 2020, China set a goal of installing 1,200 gigawatts of wind and solar power by 2030. They've already met that goal six years early. And the country has become the world's largest EV manufacturer. China also said it would prevent its carbon emissions from rising by 2030. International climate analysts say that may have already happened.

In 2020, China set a goal of installing 1,200 gigawatts of wind and solar power by 2030. They've already met that goal six years early. And the country has become the world's largest EV manufacturer. China also said it would prevent its carbon emissions from rising by 2030. International climate analysts say that may have already happened.

In other words, that emissions in China may have already peaked and are on the way down.

In other words, that emissions in China may have already peaked and are on the way down.

Matthew, in his boring reporter outfit, will likely see some members from the United States delegation at COP, probably wearing some suits as well. But the U.S. delegation is now seen as a lame duck following last week's election. The incoming Trump administration is expected to pull the U.S. away from global climate diplomacy.

Matthew, in his boring reporter outfit, will likely see some members from the United States delegation at COP, probably wearing some suits as well. But the U.S. delegation is now seen as a lame duck following last week's election. The incoming Trump administration is expected to pull the U.S. away from global climate diplomacy.

Now, as countries gather for COP29, Matthew says that one of the big questions he's hearing from the U.S. and Europe is whether or not China should still be considered a developing country.

Now, as countries gather for COP29, Matthew says that one of the big questions he's hearing from the U.S. and Europe is whether or not China should still be considered a developing country.

Whether China is reclassified could have financial repercussions around the world. Matthew says this year, the main agenda item at COP is to decide how much money developed countries will contribute after next year.

Whether China is reclassified could have financial repercussions around the world. Matthew says this year, the main agenda item at COP is to decide how much money developed countries will contribute after next year.

How do you expect that debate to play out? Like, what are you expecting to see happen in the next few days?

How do you expect that debate to play out? Like, what are you expecting to see happen in the next few days?

Why would China resist, though? Like, why would China resist stepping up into its already kind of de facto role as the global leader on climate?

Why would China resist, though? Like, why would China resist stepping up into its already kind of de facto role as the global leader on climate?

China has agreed to a provision that would allow developing countries to make financial contributions to a new U.N. fund. But it hasn't made a contribution so far. The country says it will continue to offer assistance to fellow developing countries to the best of its capacity. What strikes you most about the moment that we're in now in the struggle to combat climate change?

China has agreed to a provision that would allow developing countries to make financial contributions to a new U.N. fund. But it hasn't made a contribution so far. The country says it will continue to offer assistance to fellow developing countries to the best of its capacity. What strikes you most about the moment that we're in now in the struggle to combat climate change?

Sounds like there are still some questions outstanding, some pretty big ones. But Matthew, you sound kind of optimistic, actually, which I don't think I was expecting.

Sounds like there are still some questions outstanding, some pretty big ones. But Matthew, you sound kind of optimistic, actually, which I don't think I was expecting.

Well, thank you so much again for taking the time to chat with us. I hope you enjoy COP this year.

Well, thank you so much again for taking the time to chat with us. I hope you enjoy COP this year.

Well, keep us posted. Send some pictures.

Well, keep us posted. Send some pictures.

That's all for today, Thursday, November 14th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

That's all for today, Thursday, November 14th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

And into that void, a new leader is seen as stepping up.

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Thursday, November 14th. Coming up on the show, how China overtook the U.S. as the world's climate leader.

China and the US are the world's two largest economies and the world's two largest carbon emitters. So for the past few decades, any successful global climate deal has needed to get both superpowers on board. And the US and China each bring very different perspectives to the table.

After years of negotiation, both the US and China finally got on board with a major climate agreement in 2015, the Paris Climate Accords. Here's former President Barack Obama in Paris.

The agreement was groundbreaking. Nearly 200 countries agreed to limit global warming to less than 2 degrees Celsius. That meant cutting greenhouse gas emissions. The accords also included financial commitments from wealthy countries like the U.S.,

You were there, right, in 2015. How would you characterize the relationship between China and the U.S. at the time? Like, who was pushing who during these negotiations?

Obama considered the Paris Agreement a major achievement of his presidency. But less than a year after it was formalized, Trump was elected president for the first time. And within months of taking office, President Trump announced the U.S. was pulling out of the agreement.

Then, four years later, Joe Biden became president, and the U.S. was back in.

And that whiplash continues now that Trump is heading back to the White House. He says he wants to pull out of Paris again and ramp up the country's production of fossil fuels.

As the U.S. has gone back and forth on its climate commitment, China has steadily grown its renewable energy and electric vehicle industries. And it's now the world leader in both. Which means at this month's climate conference, countries are turning their attention to Beijing.

What are you packing to go to Baku?

Will China step up? That's after the break. Around the time the Paris Accords were signed, China had a serious problem with air pollution.

The world's largest annual climate conference kicked off this week. It's known as COP29, and it's taking place in Baku, Azerbaijan. Our colleague Matthew Dalton is an experienced COP attendee, and this weekend he's headed to Baku. How many of these conferences have you been to at this point?

The accords were an incentive for China to address this issue head on. And there was an economic upside, too.

Unlike in the U.S., China doesn't have to deal with that pesky back and forth between political parties. They've had one leader in charge for the past decade. And China's president has pushed the government to invest heavily in green energy.

Suits, ties.

Right.

So under the Paris Agreement, China is considered a developing country, which means not as much was asked of it. But how is China doing in terms of curbing emissions?

In 2020, China set a goal of installing 1,200 gigawatts of wind and solar power by 2030. They've already met that goal six years early. And the country has become the world's largest EV manufacturer. China also said it would prevent its carbon emissions from rising by 2030. International climate analysts say that may have already happened.

In other words, that emissions in China may have already peaked and are on the way down.

Matthew, in his boring reporter outfit, will likely see some members from the United States delegation at COP, probably wearing some suits as well. But the U.S. delegation is now seen as a lame duck following last week's election. The incoming Trump administration is expected to pull the U.S. away from global climate diplomacy.

Now, as countries gather for COP29, Matthew says that one of the big questions he's hearing from the U.S. and Europe is whether or not China should still be considered a developing country.

Whether China is reclassified could have financial repercussions around the world. Matthew says this year, the main agenda item at COP is to decide how much money developed countries will contribute after next year.

How do you expect that debate to play out? Like, what are you expecting to see happen in the next few days?

Why would China resist, though? Like, why would China resist stepping up into its already kind of de facto role as the global leader on climate?

China has agreed to a provision that would allow developing countries to make financial contributions to a new U.N. fund. But it hasn't made a contribution so far. The country says it will continue to offer assistance to fellow developing countries to the best of its capacity. What strikes you most about the moment that we're in now in the struggle to combat climate change?

Sounds like there are still some questions outstanding, some pretty big ones. But Matthew, you sound kind of optimistic, actually, which I don't think I was expecting.

Well, thank you so much again for taking the time to chat with us. I hope you enjoy COP this year.

Well, keep us posted. Send some pictures.

That's all for today, Thursday, November 14th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal. If you like our show, follow us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're out every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow.

Well, they have shifted away from a strategy of investing in a broad suite of different energy technologies, from renewables such as wind and solar. They've really pivoted sharply towards just oil and gas, towards really getting out of the green energy business space. They've said that they're going to direct most of their capital expenditure towards the traditional fossil fuels industries.

Well, they have shifted away from a strategy of investing in a broad suite of different energy technologies, from renewables such as wind and solar. They've really pivoted sharply towards just oil and gas, towards really getting out of the green energy business space. They've said that they're going to direct most of their capital expenditure towards the traditional fossil fuels industries.

And they're doing this because Wall Street investors really haven't rewarded them for having this less focused approach that they're now pursuing. They say there are other companies that are going to be investing in green energy, but that's not going to be our focus.

And they're doing this because Wall Street investors really haven't rewarded them for having this less focused approach that they're now pursuing. They say there are other companies that are going to be investing in green energy, but that's not going to be our focus.

They're going to be shifting a lot of their capital expenditure to spending on those things in the U.S. The U.S. as a whole represents about 60% of BP's overall business. So it's a logical place for them to be investing.

They're going to be shifting a lot of their capital expenditure to spending on those things in the U.S. The U.S. as a whole represents about 60% of BP's overall business. So it's a logical place for them to be investing.

The CEO told me that they're going to be boosting production both onshore and in the Gulf of America, as he called it, taking President Trump's preferred term for the Gulf of Mexico. He said that the company was very much aligned with President Trump's call to drill baby drill and really boost oil and gas production. Of course, they're facing right now an environment in which companies

The CEO told me that they're going to be boosting production both onshore and in the Gulf of America, as he called it, taking President Trump's preferred term for the Gulf of Mexico. He said that the company was very much aligned with President Trump's call to drill baby drill and really boost oil and gas production. Of course, they're facing right now an environment in which companies

crude oil and natural gas prices have really slumped as a reaction to the Trump administration's tariff plans, really throwing a lot of doubt on the global oil market because people think that these tariffs are going to really slow growth on a global scale.

crude oil and natural gas prices have really slumped as a reaction to the Trump administration's tariff plans, really throwing a lot of doubt on the global oil market because people think that these tariffs are going to really slow growth on a global scale.

Thanks a lot.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you.

Thank you.