Max Levchin

You need a month off, fine.

We will work with you on that, but we're not going to increase the price.

So from my point of view, just reining in this idea of permanent revolving would do so much more for the industry and for consumers, more importantly,

than any specific number on the rates that that's my opinion so that's been my thrust for a very long time just just stop compounding stop revolving really is you know the compounding will just eat you up and just it just eats you know you know you're a year in and you're like i went from 3 000 to 8 000 to 12 000 and then you're yeah you're drowning exactly and and the other side of course is credit cards very conspicuously don't prescribe how much to pay every month

Because the higher your balance, the more money they'll make.

And so this notion, like this game they play where it's like, well, 3% is the minimum.

That's all you really need to do.

By the way, the default button that's selected is the minimum payment.

Very convenient.

Not a lot of money.

Stay in debt forever.

And so it's the stay in debt forever that's, to me, the most important part of this whole game.

It sort of echoes a little bit of the conversation we just had where the holiday season, on the one hand –

it's a shopping extravaganza like you have a lot of you know you're buying things for yourself you buy things for your family buying things for your friends and so at any given time we interview consumers every year have been for a decade now the questions we basically ask them is obviously will you use a firm you know how would you use a firm but the kind of more important question perhaps is who is in your shopping circle are you buying for yourself only buying for your family buying for your friends buying for extended family so it's a good way of figuring out how affordable things appear to be

to the end consumer.

And this year, we did not, I mean, there's a lot of talk of vibe session where people are feeling concerned, the economy is not doing well.

That's not how they're shopping.

They're actually feeling pretty good.

I think a study came out just today showing that people actually expect growth and kind of a happier times in 26, which they sure shopped that way during the holiday season.

So I'm not surprised by the sort of