Megyn Kelly

And she's in that independent group that's starting to slide.

And she sounds a little bit like you, Carl.

So, like, I appreciate the POV because there are a lot of people who have it, so it's important to be exposed to it and understand how Trump is affecting some people.

I mean, I think, Andrew, like the...

There's a real question about whether Europe is what it used to be and how closely tied we ought to be to Europe.

It's not your granddad's Europe.

It's just not.

I mean, they're turning into an authoritarian group of countries themselves.

They are literally arresting people in Germany and the UK for thought crimes, for thinking crimes.

The wrong thing.

And for tweeting the wrong thing.

I mean, it's getting genuinely scary over in Europe.

And so like people say, oh, we shouldn't be aligned with Russia.

We should be aligned with Europe.

It's like Europe is doing its level best to get closer and closer to what Russia is when it comes to free speech every day.

They're the ones making themselves less like what we first aligned with, with the influx of migrants and the changing on civil liberties and free speech.

And I think Donald Trump is looking at them saying, amidst all this, you want us to pay for your defense, which is effectively what we do through NATO.

Those days are over.

And if they're not over, we want something for it.

And maybe it's a higher tariff, whatever.