Michael Barbaro

And we'll talk in just a few moments about the conflict arising from the investigation over whose investigation it should be.

But just to focus for a minute on the shooting itself, have you watched the videos?

What is your understanding of how this unfolded?

Having watched the videos and spoken perhaps to responding officers, does this strike you as a lawful interaction between the ICE officer and the resident?

Well, let's talk about that.

You mentioned training.

My sense is that there are some pretty universal rules around policing when it comes to a motorist in a running car.

So in your mind, that's a flag, that you have this ICE agent, the one who ends up shooting Renee Good, standing in front of her car.

We're focusing here on the ICE officers.

I do want to ask you about the driver's decision-making in this moment.

Her refusal to get out of the car, even after ICE agents demand that she get out of the car.

Her reversing, then driving forward.

She appears to disobey spoken orders from these officers.

As somebody who thinks about this stuff, let's just ask this really plainly.

Was she in the wrong?

And did the ICE agent do any of that?

Do you feel that this would have ended differently had this been handled entirely by the MPD, not ICE?

No question.

Do you have any empathy for the ICE officer, given the split-second nature of policing, putting aside whether he should have ever been in front of the car?

You're referring to the fact that I believe this officer in the Times has written about it, was involved in a stop where he was dragged in a car.