Michael Chiklis

The submersible stuff or the semi-submersible stuff is kind of interesting to me.

Yeah.

So he was able to get through all these years without detection and

Who's the leaders in the cartel world now?

Is it just Mexico?

And like, what's Columbia like?

What's Venezuela like?

Who are the players?

And if you're in politics in Mexico, you have to just sort of work with these guys, right?

There's no declaring war on the cartels, is there?

Yeah, I guess in a weird way, it's like the homeless problem in Los Angeles.

There was a time when you could have acted on it and been effective, and now it's sort of ubiquitous, and the numbers are so fantastic that you're sort of like, what do you do other than kind of live with it and kind of manage it a little bit?

But it's there.

It's just kind of that's part of society now.

And the time...

that you could have done something about.

It was probably 15 years ago, but that window closed, and now it's just sort of woven into the fabric of your society.

And, you know, I don't blame...

You know, I mean, obviously, crappy leadership gets you there, but there is no simple answer now.

There's too many people in too many places that the answers were simpler before they got to these numbers.