Michael DiGiovine
Appearances
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
Michael DiGiovine. I'm a professor of anthropology at Westchester University. And we spoke with Michael this morning.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
Hey, you know, Philly people, we are proud people. I say we, I'm from North Jersey, so pizza is really important. So I wouldn't even call this pizza, but anyway, it's pizza boxes that says, welcome Pope Francis, Philadelphia 2015. There's a picture of the Pope waving in front of the skyline of Philadelphia. All right, enough about the pizza.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
I think it was one of his big projects that he did. The idea emerged probably right as Pope Francis was becoming Pope. Carlo had died in 2006. Word was spreading. I mean, what happens with these popular saints is that there is this grassroots movement that usually happens. And then when it gets really big, then the church kind of comes in and makes it official.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
So he was born in London to Italian parents who were business people. The father was in insurance and the mom was in publishing. He was raised by nannies from like Ireland and Poland. So they were the ones that were religious. The parents always said they weren't really practicing Catholics. They weren't very religious.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
But somehow I guess that religiosity passed through to him from his nannies who raised him. And he was already kind of seen as a kid, at least a lot of the stories go, as somebody who was a religious but down-to-earth kid.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
So there's a story, of course, where he's getting maybe bullied in school. Like a lot of teenagers, you know, suffer. So it's a very relatable story. And, you know, one of the nannies said, why don't you just like hit him back? Like, why don't you, you know, stick up for yourself? And he said, well, Jesus wouldn't want me to do that.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
A lot of the stories emphasize the fact that he, you know, had some struggles. He loved Nutella and had struggles with his weight, you know, and self-esteem. It's very, very relatable. He played Halo. So it's not like he's playing only, you know, he's playing the PlayStation.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
halo he played halo and now he's gonna have a halo yeah now he's gonna have a halo there you go but i mean it's not a very like religious game right i mean it's kind of a shoot-up game sort of but yes he will have it hopefully he will have a halo i mean he is the saint of the internet uh or he will be probably um and that's because he did use not only playstations but he
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
he was a computer programmer and he programmed some of the earliest online virtual exhibitions. One on Eucharistic miracles, which are miracles that the bread that Catholics believe, not just that the bread is a symbolic of the host, but also that it actually is Jesus's body. And so he did this whole repository, this database that he made web pages for each of these back in the early 2000s.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
He put that online and then Marian apparitions. So when Mary appears to people, he did a whole virtual exhibition on that.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
What were young Carlo's miracles? There was a young boy, I think he was five years old, his name was Matthias, who had, he was born with an annular pancreas. And an annular pancreas means that the pancreas was wrapped around the intestine. And so it was very, very difficult for him to keep food down or to really get nourished.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
So he was getting malnourished, not because he wasn't being fed enough, but because he had this pancreas problem. And so they took him there to venerate the you know, to see the relic and to venerate. And the mom said, what do you, you know, what do you want to ask Carlo? What do you want to ask God through Carlo? And he said, I just don't want to vomit as much. I don't want to throw up as much.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
You know, that was his big thing. And it was very, people heard it, right? So it was verified that he said this in the presence of the relic. When he went home, apparently he ate a whole steak and French fries and didn't throw up. And he was, the pancreas looked normal and there's no medical explanation for it. Hmm. So a miraculous meal. With that steak. It was steak. I mean, that's heavy duty.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
There was a Costa Rican student, a girl, who was studying in Florence, Italy, and had a bicycle accident and had a traumatic brain injury. It was very bad, and the mom came. And Florence is not so, so far from Assisi, where Carlo is buried. And she made the trip. It was about two hours away. And she made the trip to Assisi, prayed. At this point in time, his body is on display for veneration.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
And that's really fascinating how he looks. And it's a really important part of his story. He's in jeans and Nikes and, you know, that kind of thing. Very, very relatable. And she prayed. The mom prayed in front of the church. the sarcophagus. And when she got back to Florence, apparently her daughter was, was awake and, you know, inexplicably cured from that.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
So that was verified at the end of last year by Pope Francis and he declared, okay, everything is set and we're going to do this, this ceremony during the Jubilee year. And unfortunately he didn't, he didn't last, but I know that that was, that was a big, it's a big deal for him because, because, you know, he,
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
This new saint really epitomizes all of the messaging that Pope Francis has done and kind of the reforms of the church.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
There's a lot. He officially canonized 942 saints. Whoa. That's a lot. I do have to say that number sounds bigger than it is because 813 of those were actually one group of martyrs from the 1400s. So, but even if you take away, you know, you count that as one, that's still like 150, you know, saints for 12 years. You know, he did Mother Teresa, you know, at the beginning. He also did three popes.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
He did all the three modern popes, Pope John XXIII, who started Vatican II, Pope Paul VI, who kind of concluded Vatican II, and then Pope John Paul II as well. So, you know, those four are really huge saints. And then Carlo would have been the fifth really, you know, major kind of rock star kind of saints that people still remembered that they related to that they had, you know, in their mind.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
I think he is. And I think, you know, Mother Teresa is a great example, more than Pope John Paul II, because, you know, there are kind of two classes of these saints. There's the popular saints, and then there's kind of the religious people like popes and priests, who a lot of people don't really even identify with, but, you know... The church hierarchy kind of makes saints.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
But Pope John Paul II was very transcendent. I mean, he was a rock star in his life. People thought he was, you know, a living saint at the time. It was very clear, you know, that he was. He really guided the church through, you know, communism and all of that. So he was really important. But Mother Teresa, I think...
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
is more along the lines of who Carlo is and more along the lines of what the message of what saints should be that Francis gives us. Pope Francis had really changed the Church and kind of focused less on the pomp and circumstance and really doubled down on being humble, being merciful, giving to the poor, and to be, you know, just the best normal person that you can be.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
It would be something he would say that I don't need to be a... be canonized to have been a model for good behavior. That being said, you know, we'll have to see what people think in five years if they're going to open a cause, which I'm sure they are, to see whether he would be officially recognized as a saint.
Today, Explained
Conclave (2025)
But I think his theology is such that you do not need, you know, the official prefix in front, you know, the saint in front to be a saint next door, to be an everyday saint, to be a model, to help other people. His theology would say that it doesn't matter.