Michael Frost

We both grew up in New Zealand, conservative evangelical slash Pentecostal type Christianity. And both very familiar with Focus on the Family, aren't we, Shane?

We both grew up in New Zealand, conservative evangelical slash Pentecostal type Christianity. And both very familiar with Focus on the Family, aren't we, Shane?

For better or worse, mostly worse, not much better. And we lived in a time, I think, in New Zealand, kind of Christianity, when anyone with an American accent was immediately seen as very authoritative, very important and fancy and must be listened to. So like bringing in an American speaker was always like the pinnacle of what you wanted to happen in your church.

For better or worse, mostly worse, not much better. And we lived in a time, I think, in New Zealand, kind of Christianity, when anyone with an American accent was immediately seen as very authoritative, very important and fancy and must be listened to. So like bringing in an American speaker was always like the pinnacle of what you wanted to happen in your church.

And Focus on the Family was beaming into our homes via the radio. Good times for all.

And Focus on the Family was beaming into our homes via the radio. Good times for all.

Yeah, it's interesting. There was all this kind of paraphernalia that then grew up around this whole industry of biblical parenting and the biblical family. In the Christian bookstores, there was this piece of wood that was shaped like a whale, and it was called Winnie the Whale.

Yeah, it's interesting. There was all this kind of paraphernalia that then grew up around this whole industry of biblical parenting and the biblical family. In the Christian bookstores, there was this piece of wood that was shaped like a whale, and it was called Winnie the Whale.

And it had verses scribed into the back of it, like, "'Spare the rod, spoil the child, and train up a child in the way they should go,' and so on." And it was designed for the smacking slash spanking. You hold with the tail and you hit the bottom with the head of the whale.

And it had verses scribed into the back of it, like, "'Spare the rod, spoil the child, and train up a child in the way they should go,' and so on." And it was designed for the smacking slash spanking. You hold with the tail and you hit the bottom with the head of the whale.

That kind of pressure is really well designed for generating compliance and obedience. And so that's why it gets used. That's why it gets used in parenting. And that's why it's been used so much in religion and in other forms of authoritarianism as well.

That kind of pressure is really well designed for generating compliance and obedience. And so that's why it gets used. That's why it gets used in parenting. And that's why it's been used so much in religion and in other forms of authoritarianism as well.

I will say one of the things you were not allowed to do that always stuck in my mind was touch a girl's hair on her head, I should clarify, because at the time it was James Dobson had this whole thing about how intimate touching hair is. And so if you start touching hair, then one thing will lead to another. Looking back, I'm like, he just had a bit of a hair fetish, didn't he?

I will say one of the things you were not allowed to do that always stuck in my mind was touch a girl's hair on her head, I should clarify, because at the time it was James Dobson had this whole thing about how intimate touching hair is. And so if you start touching hair, then one thing will lead to another. Looking back, I'm like, he just had a bit of a hair fetish, didn't he?

I think that's probably what was going on.

I think that's probably what was going on.

Petting, strange word in New Zealand. What would we go with? Fondling, perhaps? Caressing? Oh, a bit of a grope. Groping? Probably. Bit of a grope. Yeah. I remember it stood out to me at the time because I was, even then I was kind of a little surprised by it. It was all about the devil will try and get you at your weak moments.

Petting, strange word in New Zealand. What would we go with? Fondling, perhaps? Caressing? Oh, a bit of a grope. Groping? Probably. Bit of a grope. Yeah. I remember it stood out to me at the time because I was, even then I was kind of a little surprised by it. It was all about the devil will try and get you at your weak moments.

So he told a story of how he had an argument with his wife and then he was so mad that he went out for a drive in his car. And then while he was driving in his car, feeling angry about the argument he just had, an attractive woman in another car turned and looked at him. And he knew immediately she wanted to have sex with him.

So he told a story of how he had an argument with his wife and then he was so mad that he went out for a drive in his car. And then while he was driving in his car, feeling angry about the argument he just had, an attractive woman in another car turned and looked at him. And he knew immediately she wanted to have sex with him.