Michael McGrath

So we do have to develop...

energy security.

Well, the carbon tax in Ireland has been one of the most, I would say, innovative and progressive and pro-environmental measures that has been adopted in the European Union.

It has been difficult to do and it has been developed, as you know, incrementally.

And the resources have been used for environmental measures, including retrofitting and supporting farmers on their journey towards decarbonisation as well.

And the government has made what is a national decision.

The EU does not interfere in that national decision.

There are EU rules on taxation, but we have given member states leeway to do what they need to do to support households because of the exception situation we're in.

But we cannot take our eye off the ball overall, which is that we have to prevent this happening on repeat, that every few years there's an energy shock situation.

because of our dependence on fossil fuels and our dependence on external sources of energy.

So we need to have a mix that is right for each member state, but ultimately that we can stand on our own two feet and have homegrown, clean sources of energy.

Look, these are very much domestic policy decisions that the government has to make.

I'm just drawing on your expertise.

And it's always difficult because you have to weigh up competing demands on the taxation side and on the expenditure side.

But what I am very proud of is the initiative we brought in to set up the long-term funds because we do need to, across the European Union, get to a position where we manage funds

the economy and we manage public finance through a long-term prism.

And so when I brought forward the idea of setting up the Future Ireland Fund, the infrastructure fund, I understand that by the end of this year, of the order of 25 billion will be in those funds.

But isn't it a good thing that the government has the resources to respond and has been in a position to respond?

And when I look across the European Union, without doubt, the scale of the response and the intervention by the Irish government is on the high side.

And I think appropriately so, given the very high cost of energy here and the fact that government has had the resources to do so.