Michael Woolhouse

You gotta be right every time.

So...

This market, the secondaries market, I think is a really fascinating one in that there's been huge growth and underpinning that growth has been a lot of innovation.

And actually with it, different segments have emerged, each of which are large, interesting, they can be different.

but each require their own, in my view, specialist skills.

And that was the opportunity set that I saw sitting back at CPP years ago.

And we're now five years into going after that opportunity in a private equity driven way in a highly differentiated manner in the marketplace.

In my experience, direct private equity investors are hunters.

And when they go to make investments, it's about winning and losing.

And when you're buying a company from another sponsor, you do that with a relatively high degree of competitive intensity, because you compete day to day in acquiring and investing new businesses.

Like if one of our teams, just by example,

has a lot of experience in education, and they're trying to buy an education business from a competitor who also invests in education, you can see there can be some rivalry there.

And of course, this is not just TPG, but the private equity buyer in this instance, trying to...

participate in the secondaries market.

So you can get all these sort of dynamics at play, which serve folks very well in the direct private equity business.

But in the secondaries market, it is a, we call our partners, our sponsor partners.

We make judgments around, do we want to invest with them into the company?

and then turn the keys over to them to trust them to do everything.

Because ultimately, that's how the secondaries market works.

The incumbent sponsor stays in situ.