Michelle Jawando

I mean, how do you deal with that?

That's pretty good.

I mean, you worked at Google, Michelle.

What are your former colleagues who are still in the tech industry, how are they seeing this moment?

It's a five-year program initially.

How will you know if it's worked?

It's interesting you mentioned the engagement with the tech companies because it's obviously a fine line.

Obviously, you want them to be engaged and you want their philanthropic donations, but you also have to avoid becoming the quote-unquote loyal opposition.

Even the Pope was criticized for making his remarks with an anthropic exec.

So how do you navigate that?

wanting the support and both of the individuals who work in those companies and frankly, of the resources they have at the same time as not becoming beholden to them.

Of course, the success of the program will be driven in large part by how well the grantees do.

And so I think maybe we can talk now about three of the kind of initial grantees of the program.

Michelle, maybe we can start with you and Kinfolk Tech.

And it was direct quotes.

John, what about the Distributed AI Research Institute and the AI Civics led by Data and Society?

She was let go by Google because of her criticisms, essentially.

And they have distribution.

I was thinking earlier, Michel, when you were mentioning the alternative social media networks,

nagging it back in my head was how do you break through that distribution?