Michelle Martin

And I'm Michelle Martin. Thanks for waking up with NPR. Your NPR station makes Up First possible each morning. Support their work and ours at donate.npr.org slash upfirst.

And I'm Michelle Martin. Thanks for waking up with NPR. Your NPR station makes Up First possible each morning. Support their work and ours at donate.npr.org slash upfirst.

And I'm Michelle Martin. Thanks for waking up with NPR. Your NPR station makes Up First possible each morning. Support their work and ours at donate.npr.org slash upfirst.

When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging, and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from NPR.

When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging, and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from NPR.

When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging, and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from NPR.

Yeah, so Gwen Wilcox was a member of the National Labor Relations Board, and Kathy Harris sat on the Merit Systems Protection Board. That's the board that hears federal employee complaints. And they both sued, saying Trump did not have the authority to fire them.

Yeah, so Gwen Wilcox was a member of the National Labor Relations Board, and Kathy Harris sat on the Merit Systems Protection Board. That's the board that hears federal employee complaints. And they both sued, saying Trump did not have the authority to fire them.

Yeah, so Gwen Wilcox was a member of the National Labor Relations Board, and Kathy Harris sat on the Merit Systems Protection Board. That's the board that hears federal employee complaints. And they both sued, saying Trump did not have the authority to fire them.

In fact, in creating their agencies, Congress wrote into law that members can only be fired for cause, like neglect of duty or malfeasance, But the Trump administration has been arguing that those restrictions on the president violate the Constitution. So that's the fight that's been playing out in the lower courts. And what have the lower courts said?

In fact, in creating their agencies, Congress wrote into law that members can only be fired for cause, like neglect of duty or malfeasance, But the Trump administration has been arguing that those restrictions on the president violate the Constitution. So that's the fight that's been playing out in the lower courts. And what have the lower courts said?

In fact, in creating their agencies, Congress wrote into law that members can only be fired for cause, like neglect of duty or malfeasance, But the Trump administration has been arguing that those restrictions on the president violate the Constitution. So that's the fight that's been playing out in the lower courts. And what have the lower courts said?

Well, there's already been a lot of ping-ponging back and forth, Michelle. Initially, two judges found Wilcox and Harris's firings not only violated the law, but also ignored Supreme Court precedent, a case called Humphrey's Executor from 90 years ago. The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Congress could limit the president's power to remove members of independent agencies.

Well, there's already been a lot of ping-ponging back and forth, Michelle. Initially, two judges found Wilcox and Harris's firings not only violated the law, but also ignored Supreme Court precedent, a case called Humphrey's Executor from 90 years ago. The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Congress could limit the president's power to remove members of independent agencies.

Well, there's already been a lot of ping-ponging back and forth, Michelle. Initially, two judges found Wilcox and Harris's firings not only violated the law, but also ignored Supreme Court precedent, a case called Humphrey's Executor from 90 years ago. The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Congress could limit the president's power to remove members of independent agencies.

And so Wilcox and Harris actually went back to work for a while. But the government appealed. There was some back and forth. And last month, Chief Justice John Roberts stepped in. and allowed Trump to remove Wilcox and Harris again. And now the entire Supreme Court has weighed in. Yeah.

And so Wilcox and Harris actually went back to work for a while. But the government appealed. There was some back and forth. And last month, Chief Justice John Roberts stepped in. and allowed Trump to remove Wilcox and Harris again. And now the entire Supreme Court has weighed in. Yeah.

And so Wilcox and Harris actually went back to work for a while. But the government appealed. There was some back and forth. And last month, Chief Justice John Roberts stepped in. and allowed Trump to remove Wilcox and Harris again. And now the entire Supreme Court has weighed in. Yeah.

Yesterday, a majority of justices said they think Trump does have the authority to fire Wilcox and Harris, for now anyway. They wrote that the Constitution gives the president the power to fire at will those officials who help him carry out his duties, with only narrow exceptions. And they said Wilcox and Harris probably don't qualify for those exceptions.

Yesterday, a majority of justices said they think Trump does have the authority to fire Wilcox and Harris, for now anyway. They wrote that the Constitution gives the president the power to fire at will those officials who help him carry out his duties, with only narrow exceptions. And they said Wilcox and Harris probably don't qualify for those exceptions.