Mike Carruthers

And then of course, there's a lot of people who don't have any idea what you're talking about.

So why is it, if we can pick on you and use your example, when you're made aware of that, that you're really not sorry, why don't you just stop it?

I mean, what compels you to continue when you already know intellectually you're not sorry, you are just as entitled to take up space as anybody else, you have every right to be in that aisle at the grocery store.

Why don't you just stop it?

Well, stop it.

And so how important is it to figure out the why?

Why are you doing it?

Is it important to figure that out or is it important to change it and you don't really need to know why?

So is it lack of confidence?

being okay speaking up and sharing my opinion i think all of that is is tied to confidence and self-worth and what are some of the we i was my first question but but some of the other ways that this kind of thing shows up for other people for you it's saying you're sorry when when you're not and but but how do you see it manifest in other people

your worth or your self-confidence well see that's that's the thing because like the person that needs a ride from the airport i like to think of myself as the person who will sacrifice what i need to sacrifice because i you know i couldn't go back to sleep knowing somebody was stranded at the airport even though that you know they probably find somebody else but but where's the line between being a good person and you know getting stomped on

Time and time again.

That's the key phrase there, I think, because we all, I mean, I like to think I would go out of my way to help somebody, but if I did it all the time, then yeah, that would be a big problem.

Well, I love that phrase, you know, setting yourself on fire to keep somebody else warm because that nails it.

I mean, that's the perfect visual.

I know exactly what you mean.

And I bet all of us, well, not all of us, but many of us have done that and then regretted it, you know, or thought, yeah, this just didn't work right.

Well, I think an awful lot of people listening can relate to this whole idea of behaviors that you do repeatedly that you really wish you wouldn't.

And I admire your willingness to share your journey with what you went through to help other people.

Katie Morton has been my guest.