Mike Mello

You have to have those metrics.

You have to have playbooks.

Otherwise, you're just going to waste a whole lot of money, a lot of time, and probably end up in a worse place than a better one.

I don't think I can.

I think that's a very wise way of thinking about it in that if you're relying on the title, either yours or your direct supervisor, your direct manager, your boss, whatever term you want to use.

you've already lost.

You're not going to be successful.

I think excuse is the right way to put it.

It is making an excuse for not being successful, for not enabling...

the kind of security program that a company needs and saying, oh, well, gosh, if only I had X, where X could be more money, more people, who you report to, all of these, right?

And I think that that's really...

The failing of this perspective is you need to build your own influence and you can do that without having to say, hey, I report to the CEO, you have to listen to me.

Like if if you're falling back on, you have to listen to me.

then again, you failed.

A lot of that is meeting people where they are and helping them.

Like Mike mentioned it, how can you support them?

How can you make them successful?

And how can you do that in a way that

Maybe it's invisible that you're doing that, but this person is aware and they're gonna come to you and look for help.

They're gonna come to you and look for how do I solve this problem over and over and over again?