Mike Purcell
speaker
41 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Feb 2025
last heard Feb 2025
Mike Purcell’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Ricardo says the same law should be applied to the San Jose.
So that is Spain's claim to the San Jose. It is an historical claim.
He says his interest in the San Jose began back in the 1990s. The movie Titanic had just come out. There were documentaries about it. And one of those documentaries made a reference to the San Jose. And he was like, wait, that's a ship that we, the Caracara, have a connection to.
He says his community had documents dating back to the 1500s, including ones that showed what was on board the San Jose when it left Potosi. A whole lot of silver and gold that was mined by his ancestors.
There are estimates that over 8 million indigenous and African people died there as they worked the mines during Spanish colonialism.
He says the Caracara owned the silver and gold mined during the years of colonialism.
If it's silver from Potosí, it has to come back.
This isn't just about the San Jose. In his research, he's found that there were all these other sunken ships with silver and gold that he says the Caracara have a right to.
So the Colombians, the Spanish, the Caracara, they all seem to have pretty valid claims to the San Jose. But guess who else also has a claim to the San Jose? A bunch of American businessmen. That's after the break.
And their claim goes back to the 1980s, when shipwreck treasure hunting was kind of having a moment in all of the bodies of water where wooden chests full of gold coins might be found. All these private companies were out there searching for treasure.
Now, their impression was under Colombian law at the time, that entitled them to 50% of whatever they found. They find it, they get to keep it, right?
But in 2020, Colombia passed another law saying actually everything on that ship is cultural patrimony. No one can sell it, which means Cesar's Armada would get 50 percent of nothing. So Cesar's Armada sued Colombia anew.
Last year, more than 40 years after they say they found the San Jose, they took their case to the Permanent Court of Arbitration.
This court exists to resolve international disputes. It's the place the world goes when a government and a business interest disagree. In this case, CSERJ Armada is arguing that Colombia is in violation of the free trade agreement between Colombia and the United States.
Colombia's lawyers say what they have been saying to the Sea Search Armada. You never found it. There was nothing in your coordinates or anywhere close. By the way, Colombia's lawyers declined to comment for this story. There's this one exchange that I really love between first one of Colombia's lawyers and then one of the arbiters.
Colombia says Sea Search Armada is trying to claim a zone that is way too big, miles wide.
Seaser Armada's case before the tribunal court will reconvene at the end of this year. This whole thing is now going on year 44.
And if you're wondering why nobody has just gone and brought the San Jose up from the seafloor, it's partly for legal reasons the Sea Search Armada has an injunction, but also because in the years after it was found, there was a giant Colombian naval ship floating over the San Jose, guarding it. Maybe the simplest possible way to claim it.
This episode of Planet Money was produced by Sam Yellow Horse Kessler with help from Willa Rubin and edited by Keith Romer. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Neil Rauch with help from Robert Rodriguez.
And before we go, we just want to say a big thank you if you are one of the listeners who answered the call in the last few months and supported our show by signing up for NPR+. That support is so important to keeping our work going, so thank you. And if you heard about NPR+, but aren't supporting us yet, it is really easy to sign up. Just go to plus.npr.org. I'm Mary Childs. I'm Erica Barris.
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