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Mike Shea

👤 Person
17697 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

And there are many compatible 5e monster books, and all of them have challenge rating as a way of ranking monster difficulty. So what is challenge rating? I took a look at the new description of challenge rating in the glossary of the 2024 player's handbook, which states challenge rating CR summarizes the threat a monster poses to a group of four player characters.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

Compare a monster CR to the character's level. If the CR is higher, the monster is likely a danger. If the CR is lower, the monster likely possesses little threat. but circumstances and the number of player characters can significantly alter how threatening a monster is in actual play. The Dungeon Master's Guide provides guidance to the DM on using CR while planning potential combat encounters.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

Compare a monster CR to the character's level. If the CR is higher, the monster is likely a danger. If the CR is lower, the monster likely possesses little threat. but circumstances and the number of player characters can significantly alter how threatening a monster is in actual play. The Dungeon Master's Guide provides guidance to the DM on using CR while planning potential combat encounters.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

Compare a monster CR to the character's level. If the CR is higher, the monster is likely a danger. If the CR is lower, the monster likely possesses little threat. but circumstances and the number of player characters can significantly alter how threatening a monster is in actual play. The Dungeon Master's Guide provides guidance to the DM on using CR while planning potential combat encounters.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

That last part's a lie. The Dungeon Master's Guide doesn't provide guidance for the DM on using challenge rating. It provides guidance for building encounters based on experience points. But a more interesting definition of challenge rating is that to me, challenge rating actually doesn't mean anything at all. Challenge rating doesn't really define anything in the game on its own.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

That last part's a lie. The Dungeon Master's Guide doesn't provide guidance for the DM on using challenge rating. It provides guidance for building encounters based on experience points. But a more interesting definition of challenge rating is that to me, challenge rating actually doesn't mean anything at all. Challenge rating doesn't really define anything in the game on its own.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

That last part's a lie. The Dungeon Master's Guide doesn't provide guidance for the DM on using challenge rating. It provides guidance for building encounters based on experience points. But a more interesting definition of challenge rating is that to me, challenge rating actually doesn't mean anything at all. Challenge rating doesn't really define anything in the game on its own.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

The only thing challenge rating does is compare one monster to another. It shows you that a CR2 is harder than a CR1. A CR8 is harder than a CR4. It doesn't tell you by how much, really. And it doesn't really relate to the thing that they say it relates to here. A monster of a challenge rating equal to the character's level is not necessarily a danger to four-player characters of that level.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

The only thing challenge rating does is compare one monster to another. It shows you that a CR2 is harder than a CR1. A CR8 is harder than a CR4. It doesn't tell you by how much, really. And it doesn't really relate to the thing that they say it relates to here. A monster of a challenge rating equal to the character's level is not necessarily a danger to four-player characters of that level.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

The only thing challenge rating does is compare one monster to another. It shows you that a CR2 is harder than a CR1. A CR8 is harder than a CR4. It doesn't tell you by how much, really. And it doesn't really relate to the thing that they say it relates to here. A monster of a challenge rating equal to the character's level is not necessarily a danger to four-player characters of that level.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

That's kind of true up to level four. After level four, it's actually not true at all. And their own encounter building guidelines show it to you. That if you try to throw a character, a single monster against characters with a challenge rating equal to the character's level, that is not a difficult encounter when you start to get to fifth level and above.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

That's kind of true up to level four. After level four, it's actually not true at all. And their own encounter building guidelines show it to you. That if you try to throw a character, a single monster against characters with a challenge rating equal to the character's level, that is not a difficult encounter when you start to get to fifth level and above.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

That's kind of true up to level four. After level four, it's actually not true at all. And their own encounter building guidelines show it to you. That if you try to throw a character, a single monster against characters with a challenge rating equal to the character's level, that is not a difficult encounter when you start to get to fifth level and above.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

Fifth level and above, you need to have other monsters there or the monster needs to be at a higher challenge rating than the character's level. But by how much? We'll talk about that. But really, challenge rating doesn't mean anything. There's no real definition of what challenge rating is. It doesn't directly compare to anything like the level of the characters or anything like that.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

Fifth level and above, you need to have other monsters there or the monster needs to be at a higher challenge rating than the character's level. But by how much? We'll talk about that. But really, challenge rating doesn't mean anything. There's no real definition of what challenge rating is. It doesn't directly compare to anything like the level of the characters or anything like that.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

Fifth level and above, you need to have other monsters there or the monster needs to be at a higher challenge rating than the character's level. But by how much? We'll talk about that. But really, challenge rating doesn't mean anything. There's no real definition of what challenge rating is. It doesn't directly compare to anything like the level of the characters or anything like that.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

As close as you get is what they said, which is that in theory, a single monster is roughly equivalent to four characters of the same level, but not really. And the reason why is action economy. A single monster is at a disadvantage against four characters because all of those characters have piles of actions that they can take. And usually that single monster can only take one set of actions.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

As close as you get is what they said, which is that in theory, a single monster is roughly equivalent to four characters of the same level, but not really. And the reason why is action economy. A single monster is at a disadvantage against four characters because all of those characters have piles of actions that they can take. And usually that single monster can only take one set of actions.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

As close as you get is what they said, which is that in theory, a single monster is roughly equivalent to four characters of the same level, but not really. And the reason why is action economy. A single monster is at a disadvantage against four characters because all of those characters have piles of actions that they can take. And usually that single monster can only take one set of actions.

The Lazy RPG Podcast - D&D and RPG News and GM Prep from Sly Flourish
Challenge Rating Deep Dive – Lazy RPG Talk Show

It can't act. The only version that doesn't is legendary monsters. Even legendary monsters have a better action economy, but they're just spreading their damage over those higher number of actions. They're not really doing a whole lot else. So... The first thing to remember is that challenge rating really only means one thing, and that's comparing one monster to another.