Miranda McWhorter
Appearances
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think the way that she thought about it in her mind was just giving more context to something that, you know, she never I think when you hear that she cheated and she had an affair, obviously her mind is going to a place of.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yes, I think that I do think that there is an aspect for Taylor where I think she genuinely, in some circumstances, does want to kind of like hide other people's identities for certain. And not just I'm not just speaking in this situation.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean, you know, like Taylor's great at a screen grab like she she's great at getting people's attention and like, you know, posting those clout videos that they get a lot of traction. She's great at that, great at marketing herself. And She knows what works. She knows what she's doing, right? And I think most of the time when she's posting videos, that's kind of the approach.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I do think like in real life, I think sometimes she will kind of try to like hide identities or be vague to like save other people's feelings. But I think it's unintentional the way it comes off because I don't I mean, she can't really like expect every theory that people are going to come up with.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I do think when it comes to an online sense, I think that she does kind of have an idea of like which direction it could go or be hopeful or at least have like a few different avenues. And then, you know, I think especially with the swinging thing, people ran with a ton of different avenues, like things that.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I know with your podcast, there were some things that she said as well, that people were taking what she said and having theories.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah. I think with the way she spoke about what happened with her and the guy that she had an affair with. And obviously, I feel like I still don't know all the details surrounding that, the actual details surrounding that.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
No, that wasn't Chase. But like just some, some things that some comments that she had made on that. I think a lot of people were assuming different things that I, I still, I like, I can't really speak on obviously whether it was true or not because I wasn't there.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Like the, the assault like that, that people are running with. And I, obviously if that's the case, like that is awful. And like,
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
makes me sick but i also am like you know in her mind she was like oh that wasn't what i was trying to say at all she's like i did not think that people would would think that that's like what happened she's like that's not what i think happened but again like then you like you hear the story and you're like oh i could see why people would think that that's what happened and so i think obviously that's nothing i would speak on just because i you know i don't know
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I like the situations like that, for example. People can run with quite literally anything. But I do think Taylor is very good at posting online videos, knowing what works. And I think she can get a good read and a good feel for what people will kind of assume. And I think maybe there was a level to that with her live.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
you know, a lot of shame where she feels like there was more context that kind of led to that, that I think, I don't know, I just helped people understand it a little bit more. And, you know, we've talked about that now, but I understand like her reasoning for wanting to give that side of it. I just think, I just wish maybe that she would have done it a different way.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I also think that there's a level to that that she didn't expect it to become what it was.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think even now looking back, I think she probably would have maybe done it a different way too. But I mean, we're here now.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
We didn't. Well, okay, I... This is what's hard is that Taylor and I obviously, we live in the same area. Like we had kind of ran into each other here and there. And I thought we were like, okay. And then she posted a video about a podcast that I had done. I said something about how I wasn't going to do the show. What was it?
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It was something along the lines of how I wasn't going to do the show because of Taylor. But I said that it wasn't a right fit for my family at the time. And what people didn't really know is how bad my marriage was struggling at this point. I mean, had I done season one, it would have been my divorce. And I think that would have been very difficult for myself and for my kids. And that was...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
the biggest reason but also to me i'm like it's i don't feel like it's a secret that like taylor and i weren't good and there was still a lot of hurt there so it didn't make sense for me to put myself in a position at the time where i just didn't know if i could really you know do that so you were offered the opportunity to join the first season Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From from the beginning.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean, they had approached Camille and I and Taylor. And we had plenty of calls about it. I think another thing that people think is that it was like when when I had said, oh, like, maybe I'll consider if Taylor's not on. The reason I said that was because this was during the arrest where they didn't know if she could be on or not. But it was never like, pick me or Taylor.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Taylor is the obvious choice. I'm like, I am self-aware enough to know that. And she makes great TV. So it was never that. It was like, oh, if Taylor's not, then maybe I'll consider it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Right. And that's exactly it. I haven't tried to hide that. I feel like I've been pretty forthcoming about the fact that I'm like, we weren't good. I don't think a lot of people want to be around people that... Maybe make them feel like uncomfortable or so on. And then again, like the marriage stuff, like that played a huge role too.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And ultimately I wasn't going to know like whether I needed to make the decision before I knew like what the verdict with Taylor was going to be. So my ultimate decision was not based on that. Yeah, I did. Did that podcast. And she was upset because I had said that I decided to ultimately decided that it didn't feel like the right fit for my family. And she was under the impression.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Also, we weren't speaking at the time. So this was all going through like management stuff and like things that our management, her management, my management, like are kind of conversing about. So it's not even me and Taylor having this conversation.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And she had heard that I turned it down because I didn't want to do like be around her and didn't want to do it because of her, which I'm also like, yeah. But again, it wasn't like the sole purpose. And she posted a video about it. And so I thought we were like, okay. And then she posted that video and it was very like, I was so shocked and taken back. I was like, wait, what was the video?
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah. Well, the affair had gotten out at that point. And so I guess people were commenting that she had cheated on her husband. And so I think that was a really triggering thing for her because she felt like there was a lot of context that was necessary that led her to that point.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Oh, I would actually love to find it. I think it was like it was some sort of like voiceover something, I think, at first, because then I posted a video as like a response, which is like very unlike me, like throughout like all the swinging stuff, everything. Like you took the bait. I oh, I took the bait at that point.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I was like, I'm just because I think that time felt very during like the swinging stuff. I'm like, I know like she's mad at me. There's like tensions are high. But I also was just like not OK mentally during that time. And it was hard for me to do anything on social media. I'm not really one to... like do a lot of like petty back and forth videos.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I, and like, again, like Taylor's really good at it. It's something that she has pretty much always been good at.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean, that's why like she gained a following in the first place, but that was, I think the first time where I'd ever like responded to any of the videos that Taylor had really posted just because it felt like so unwarranted to me because I didn't, I like genuinely did not think that I was
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
like saying anything offensive or hurtful like that was not my intention from your point of view what was she upset with you about that i didn't say that i that she played a role in my decision to not do the show because i just said it didn't feel like a right fit for my family like i guess the scandal like was she upset with anything you did or you're a part of that like almost oh yes yeah so people
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think it gets a little bit misconstrued that I walked away from our friendship because of Taylor's affair. And that was not the case. I found out about it the next day. You know, I had to do a lot of prying. And I was like, Taylor, like, obviously something happened. I'm here for you. Like, let's talk about it because, you know, it's very, we all know something happened.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And after a while, she made a comment that implied something. That they had done something and I was like, okay. And I remember like after the phone call, just sitting there and being like, oh, okay. Like, how do I go about this? Because for me, it was never like I found out that she had an affair and I'm suddenly like, let's go like tell the world. Absolutely not.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean, she was still my best friend. And I was like, okay, what do I do with this information? Because it wasn't just her telling me and no one else knew. Everyone in our friend group knew that something had happened. And so I was like, okay, let's see how to go about this. And I didn't say anything to anyone until she had opened up to Tate about it. And then our friend group knew.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But it was never about that for me. The thing was that it was because of the whole her and Chase thing. And it wasn't even as much the information as it was her lying to me about it. And that's what was hurtful because I get a call from... I actually posted a family picture. And posted some family pictures. I get a call from Camille.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And Camille was like, hey... Because Taylor had told one of our other friends that Chase had said that he had feelings for her or something like that at the gym. And then she told Camille and was like, I...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
found out this information from Taylor like I feel like Miranda should know I don't know what to do with it and Camille's like okay well like now what you know what do we do this information and meanwhile like I obviously know nothing about it feels like everyone around me knew everything knew about it and I just felt like I was just in the dark which obviously was a very hurtful feeling after finding out and that everybody knew like that information except for the one person who probably should
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So then Camille calls me and she's like, hey, I just saw your family picture. I like feel like I should tell you this. Like I wouldn't be a good friend if I didn't. And she told me. And, you know, of course, I immediately text Taylor and I'm like, hey, is this true? And she was like, no, like that's not true. Like that's like crazy. And then like later, like denied it multiple times again.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And then it ends up becoming like this whole thing. And she came over to my house and like our friend group all came over to my house. And that was actually the night everything ended up blowing up. But that's how she ended up coming over. And then, you know, she was drinking a little bit. And then she like went home with a friend and then Brayden went and picked her up and
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
That's how that whole thing ended up happening. But that was the same day. We had a phone call, too. I don't know if it was the next day or a couple days after. And initially, she had said that he said that he was in love with her. And then...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It's so interesting because I want to say like, oh, look, we were in a good place. But then I feel like it was as far as like surface level good goes. You know what I mean? Like we already obviously had issues. You don't really end up in a situation like that if you don't have issues. But I feel like they weren't like a day to day type of issue.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
then later on the phone call it was that he had feelings for her and so i just felt like things like kept kind of like shifting and changing and i just like you know and of course like i'm wanting to believe my husband but at the same time i'm like i'm assuming asked to confront him oh for sure yeah and you know he's he's denying it and he like told me that it was a it was like kind of taken out of context he's like i think like i like if if we kept doing stuff like this i i think that
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I don't know if it was like he could develop things for Miranda like I could develop things for you it was something like similar to that like all in all I don't really care at this point it doesn't like it didn't play a role in our divorce it doesn't makes no difference to me now what's true and what's not
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Um, but I think for me, there were already like other things leading up to this that Taylor had done that I felt like we're crossing some boundaries and that like had hurt my feelings a little bit. And so by this point, I think like the denying of, of something like that and the trying to like keep it from me, um,
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
especially me being her best friend I think that's what I found very hurtful and then I like find out that she approached him at the gym I found out about this during this time but this had happened before I think Chase said that to her I guess allegedly and she approached him at the gym and was like hey I had a dream about you last night and he was like oh like what kind of dream she's like you know what kind of dream and so I was like oh that's like a weird thing to say to your best friend's husband
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And so that just made me feel uncomfortable. And so then, of course, having that in mind, I'm like, I don't know what to believe. Is she making it up? Did he tell her that? I was just very confused. And really, again, it didn't have to do with the affair. And so many people are like, how could you leave Taylor in such a vulnerable time in her life? And she needed you. And I'm like, I needed her.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I needed her and I needed her to be honest with me. Because I was there for her. I was fully prepared to be there for her. throughout the affair and divorce and, and I would have. And I think obviously like the, the guy she had an affair with, his wife is still to this day, a very, very dear friend of mine. She's one of my closest friends.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah. And at the time, like we were friends, but her and I are way closer now.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And she's, a very, she's always been like a very good friend to me and I really value our friendship. And, but again, at the time, like we weren't as close, but I still, we were still good friends. And so I think that was hard because I was also like, like, I feel so bad for her and like, how could you guys do this to her?
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But at the same time, I'm like, and Taylor's like, but Taylor's my best friend. And I'm like, I don't know. Like what? Yeah. It's very like middleman. What do I do?
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And so I think it was kind of those problems that we had in our relationship, they were masked by a lot. And so I felt like on the surface, we were good. And the issues were also issues that we had kind of always had.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Right. And I think that's when I knew again, our, our friend group knew something that happened. Right. And there were already like things kind of leading up to that, that I think both of their partners were a little bit like suspicious about. And so when I had found out, I told Taylor, I was like, you have to say something because it's going to come out.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It's going to come out and it's going to be better if it comes from you. And of course, I like, although I was like, I'm, you know, in your corner, I, you know, I'm here for you. I'm trying to be here for you. But yeah, it was a very difficult thing.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yes, but it was back to back. So it was, like, the phone call was, like, me being, like, okay, like, I'm here for you. Like, they're going to find out. So, like, it's going to be better if it comes from you. Which is what she did. Like, she was ultimately the one who went to her husband and opened up about it. But it was, that was, like, boom, boom. So it wasn't, like, she had the affair.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It came out. I was, like, there for her. And then you got a call from Camille. It was, yes. That was all, like...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
in the span of i don't know like a few days or so um i want to say so it wasn't like i was like there for taylor for weeks and then it happened it was like all so that's i think why people also think i didn't want to be friends with her strictly because of only the gotcha and then how long after you had stepped away from your friendship with taylor because of her and chase did she go on her tiktok live and announced about two weeks i want to say yeah about two weeks i would say
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
OK, sure. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I hope so, because we've talked about it. And I think I think there was just the number one thing. And Taylor will agree with this, too, that I think was an issue and has been an issue multiple times for multiple reasons, not even just the whole swinging thing or whatever, is we've had the worst communication through it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Taylor and I really never we never had hiccups we never had like in our friendship like we really were always like so solid and it was toward the end like there were some things that kind of made me go oh like I don't want that or like that's you know that like isn't a great feeling or things like that and then I think those things compiled with her being dishonest about the chase thing it just was a lot at that point but leading up to that like it was pretty smooth sailing
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It has. Years in the making. Years in the making.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think one thing, for example, is I just feel like our communication wasn't great a lot of the time. And I feel like... Chase is a very passionate person and a very emotional person and that's for better or for worse. And I think that he has big feelings and I think that that really serves him as far as being a father goes because he is very passionate about
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So it's not like we have the natural ebb and flow of a relationship that you have with anyone where there's ups and downs, resolution. We didn't really have downs. It was really pretty consistent. And so I don't think we really knew one another's communication skills and what was our strong suit and what was not.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And so I think we found that for her, when she gets triggered in that sense, she's very Very vocal and takes it head on. I'm the type of person where, unfortunately, I'm kind of like, you know what? All right, let's cut it. I'm done. I don't even care to talk about it. And I think both come with faults.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think that throughout filming and talking about our fallout, I think we've recognized that really like communication or lack thereof, I guess, our communication was just not what it should have been. And there are so many things that I've opened up now about that. She's like, oh, I had no idea that you felt that way.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I'm like, yeah, well, that's probably because I didn't bring it up and I should have. And so I think that that was our biggest downfall. And I think people will see that like throughout the filming process regarding like multiple things.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I don't know. I don't know because, I mean, we're also in a way different phase of life. I mean, if you would have told me and Taylor back when we were at our closest that we would both be single moms. and divorced in a matter of years, we probably would have been just so mind blown. Yeah, our lives are both so different now.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yes. Because I think we have a lot to relate to on now. And I think that it's hard to prioritize friendships in the season that we're in of life right now. And, you know, people will see that on the show as well. When you're struggling with anything mentally and then you throw motherhood into that and then you're you know, a single mom and a working mom. There's a lot.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And so I think that it's difficult to prioritize those friendships all the time where I feel like when we first started MomTalk, it was kind of like just what we did because, you know, we were stay at home moms and we were kind of growing a platform, but like we were stay at home moms. And that's just not
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
our reality really anymore and it's you know it's great but I think that things are just so different and I think right now we're just kind of taking it one day at a time and I'm just grateful that we are able to like joke about it now and and laugh about it and be around each other and not have it be triggering for either one of us really.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
our children and very supportive and one of the biggest like hype men you'll ever meet but at the same time because he's so passionate he can also get he can be very like easily triggered he can be have a short fuse and that was one thing that was like very like touch and go And he was hot and cold in that sense throughout our relationship.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I got a phone call a few days after Season 1 aired, seeing if I had changed my mind. And at this point, I'm divorced now. And I was like, I don't know. And I would say, obviously, the decision-making process because of that was easier. But I mean, I signed my contract the day before we started filming. I was so all over the place with making the decision.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And a lot of that, I think, really had to do with my family. My family is still very religious. And although they've been very supportive, it's still a lot for them. And I think that they've seen me go through a lot over the last few years. And I think that they were just rightfully concerned for me and my mental health and everything.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think that, you know, the church, that's something that they hold very near and dear to their heart. And even though I've kind of stepped away from that, it's something that I still try to be respectful of, you know, for their sake and for other loved ones. But yeah, I think it was definitely a difficult decision to make.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I feel like, again, that was kind of it wasn't something that was so at the forefront just because it was kind of always a reality in our relationship. And at the time when everything came out to like we weren't really participating in anything at that point. We'd already had our fallout, like I said, this weeks later. So I don't know.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I couldn't really deny this time around that like last time I kept trying to make the idea work in my head and then my gut was telling me something else.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I felt like it was kind of flip-flopped this time around. And every time I thought about it, I'm like, it probably just isn't the right. I'm sure not anything great really mentally and for my kids could really come from it. But I kept feeling otherwise. And so I'm like, you know what? If I've got to eat my words, I'll eat my words. And so then I was like, you know, let's do it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Right, right. I mean, yeah, there was for sure a level of it where I'm like, I've gone through a lot of trauma. I might as well get paid for it. When people are like, you're only back for the money. I'm like, I'm not back for free. I'm not doing this for charity.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But at the same time, I also, because of the whole swinging scandal and the state of my mental health back then, you kind of recognize what's worth it and what's not. I talk about this often.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
a lot throughout the filming process but I I feel like the beginning the first I don't know eight months almost like a year of my daughter's life was like it's kind of a blur and like sorry I just didn't want to like that to happen again yeah
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think like thinking back now, that's like the regarding my kids, like that's the part that is still a little bit of a wound for me because I don't like I was fully myself. And In turn, I don't feel like I was fully a present mother. And so a big concern of mine was getting back to that. Even though I'm like, this could be great for my kids, right? I'm a single mom.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I feel like we were just kind of adjusting to life without really having the same friend group that we had, because I do think we spent way too much time together as friends. I think that the four of you, not just like our friend group. Okay.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Being able to really, first of all, hit the thing with Taylor head on once and for all. That was almost an empowering feeling, but also I was very fearful. Just like I was very fearful of when everything first came out. However, I... Had a fear that I would end up back in that state again.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And especially this time, not being in a partnership and being a single mom and having to like my kids depend on me for everything. And I go through it alone. Yeah. And go through it alone. And like, obviously, you know, Chase and I had our issues, but also like there were a lot of we had a lot of strong suits as well.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I do feel like we were very much there for each other during that time in a lot of ways, you know, regardless of like my hurt. I think that he did show up for me in ways that I needed at the time. And so I think that was a big fear for me is like, what if it doesn't go well for me? What if I do get bad at it?
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Or because really, I mean, I think a lot of people are expecting to see more about the swinging stuff on season one. Right. But that wasn't really mentioned, but it wasn't really a lot. I knew that if I was like coming on, it's for sure. And I was like, I'm not going to do it unless I'm fully prepared to do that.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
At this point, like I'd already like done like some therapy. I'd already like, I felt like I'd worked through a lot and I was, I feel like the difference between season one and season two, like where I was at was astronomical, even though it wasn't like that big of a gap. I think through my divorce process, I feel like I changed so much.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean the four of us too I feel like we I mean people forget that Taylor and I were friends for five years like leading up to this and nothing ever happened until toward the end there was never like anything weird or it's very like we would get together and have like door dash nights and our kids would hang out and it was like a very seemingly normal friendship and then I think toward the end of our friendship when we like had more couples that we were hanging out with and so on and then
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
You know, it's like, you know, that's exactly, that's exactly how it feels. And the thing is too, is that I'm like, I think when you have like even a taste of that, like when you have a social media platform, right. And then there's a whole scandal involved. You get enough of a taste of it to realize that like, like it wasn't for me making the decision to do the show was money and aspect of it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Absolutely. But the fame situation, scared me like that's not something that I was interested in so I had to weigh like what do I do is it worth this is it and ultimately you don't know and that's kind of the hard part is you're going into it knowing that it's a gamble but you know yeah I think I think even in the podcast that Taylor listened to that I did a while ago I said something about how
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I already like was exploited on the Internet for when I didn't ask for it. Like, I don't know that I want to ask to do that again and put myself in that position.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
When I'm like, I'm choosing to put myself in that position. Last time I didn't. So then it does definitely feel like, you know, you know that it comes with privileges and I'm fully like aware of that. But it is kind of like when you've complained at all or the hard parts or I mean, I'm away from my kids this week for a full week. I've never in my life been away from my kids for a full week.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I was very emotional about it. But I'm like, there are so many people who have to be away from their kids for so much longer and people who have to go to work every single day and take their kids to daycare. So then I'm like, I don't get to be sad about it because I chose this. But then it's also like you still have that emotion. It's a whirlwind. Yeah, it's definitely a whirlwind.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean... Chase doesn't really... One thing you know about Chase is he just really doesn't give a shit about a lot. He either really does or he really doesn't. Again, being the passionate person he is. And regardless of everything that him and I have been through, I will say still to this day, Chase is one of the most supportive people in my life.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And he was very like, if you choose to do this, I got you, support you. And... I think that he's been supportive in me doing it the way that I want to do it. Obviously, like I will say one of our biggest strengths as a co-parent relationship is that we do not speak negatively of one another to really.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean, you have your people you've been to, obviously, but in front of our children online, nothing like that. And it's though it's hard sometimes, especially when I'm like, I still want to be authentic to my truth and my reality. Sure. But I also want to protect your kids. Yeah. I never want my children to see me talking shit on their dad.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yes. I think they're entitled to the information. Sure.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
A thousand percent. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like I feel like I do kind of owe it to them. Like I do choose to share my life, but I also am like a human that like deserves to have boundaries and respect and privacy sometimes. And it's a, it's a hard line to tell for sure. Absolutely.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
We were drinking here and there. And I think that's when obviously things took a turn. And I think a lot of that has to do with getting married so young and your prefrontal cortex not being developed.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Oh, for sure. Yeah, no, I knew that I was kind of walking into a lion's den there, for sure. And again, weighing the pros and cons, you know what you're getting yourself into. And I think when it came to filming, I kind of just went into it thinking, I'm just going to expect the worst. That way I'm pleasantly surprised if anything better happens. So that's kind of the approach I took.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I was very surprised. I felt like she came at me pretty hard and I was just mostly because like her and I weren't very close prior to, like I would consider us friends, but like it wasn't, you know, a deep friendship, but more of like an acquaintance friendship. Yeah. And so it was surprising.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Michaela. Aren't they like the sinners? Michaela left the church. She's actually not Mormon anymore. She's not even, okay. No, no. Macy is. I would say Macy and Jen are the most devout. I would say Whitney would be number three to me.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I can see why you would think that. Yes, she can. She can, she can. And sometimes it's shocking because Michaela is very like.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Very quiet, very poised. And then sometimes like she'll speak and you're like, oh. oh okay and she'd be like yeah very gentle and she'd be like fuck that bitch you know like yes that's exactly yeah that's exactly her and like it's it's funny like I honestly think it's funny and I think looking back and knowing Michaela as well as I do now too
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think that that's something that makes me laugh because that is how she is. And that's why I was so jarred. Because I didn't know her well enough to know her persona versus her actual personality. And now that I understand her more, I laugh about it. But yeah, she was surprising.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I say that I'm Switzerland, but also there is a direction I lean, but they're fallout. Obviously, it really is like it has nothing to do with me necessarily. But I think when you see patterns in someone and when you see people do things to their friends, it naturally kind of makes you go...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I don't love that and sometimes like it does make you wonder like should I distance myself from this person I don't know if you know if they can do that to a friend then who's to say that they can't do it to me and it does kind of make you even though I might not be like oh like I hate this girl I hate you know it's not really even necessarily that but it is kind of makes you be a little more inquisitive about it and maybe even a little more just careful about
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And, you know, you tread lightly in these situations, too, just because it is a lot of girls with a lot of opinions and a lot of emotions. And I think, yeah, even though I definitely have an opinion on their fallout, I think that ultimately I'm like, I don't want to be involved. You know, I lean a direction and that's where I'm at. But yeah, it's it'll get messy.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that when you are someone who is really fighting heavily to push a narrative, I think that it's never a good look. And as someone who was very adamant, like wasn't involved, like don't don't look at me. Nothing happened. Wasn't involved. Looking back now in my situation with the swinging scandal, I'm like, oh, I think that there was a level of projecting. Totally.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Like if I'm being totally honest with myself, because was I involved in what like a lot of people think I was? No. But was there truth to it? Yeah. So then for me, I think I look at it through that lens where when one person is being very adamant, nothing happened, pointing fingers everywhere. I just I feel like it brings up just some questions. And I think that's kind of what.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
demi's doing right now where it's like no no no and based on a lot of conversations that i've had with jesse and with demi both separately i feel like jesse has been very forthcoming about things that happened and the whole reason for their fallout made a lot more sense to me after hearing what jesse had to say
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yes. And this is at this point where like present day, where I'm at right now, my relationship with Jesse, what I know, how I've seen things unfold. I feel like Jesse has been from the from the time really that it even any information has about anything that came out, I feel like she has really taken it head on and been very forthcoming about it from my perspective.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I would probably say maybe. I mean, it's close. I think there's like multiple that I'm like, oh, maybe, maybe. But I would probably say ultimately maybe to me.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think she was like a fan favorite in the first season. I think it's easy for that kind of thing to go to anybody's head a little bit. But I do think there was a level of entitlement. And, you know, I think maybe, you know, it's totally a subconscious thing. But I think that that kind of created that somewhat in her.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I don't know if going into season two, if she thought that there was going to be like a level of immunity because of that. Or, I mean, when you've done one season, I think you don't really... You know what to expect, but you don't really know what to expect. And I think everyone's been in it long enough.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think at this point, even though I don't have another season under my belt, I think I've seen enough to know that no one's really ever safe. I think relationships change when you're filming a reality TV show. There's a lot that goes into that, right? And that's not just your relationships with the people, right? There's a whole world working around you as well.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And there's just been a lot that has happened that does make me feel like there was maybe a level of entitlement from having a good season that came from that.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Oh, I think it's possible. I would be very shocked. Like, I feel pretty firm in my decision. But I also, I mean, I'm always open to being wrong. I think that, like, maybe it's my trust issues speaking, but I feel like I think anyone can really spin their own narrative. I think a lot of people can be very convincing.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And it's hard to because there's also like in that situation specifically it's not just the two of them with the fallout right like there's there are other people who play a role in that and then you're also hearing that side and it adds another dynamic right where you're like okay. then you have to put that into consideration.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
You know, they, you know what they say, there's three sides to every story. And so I think it's, it would not, I would be shocked, but I guess I wouldn't say it would be like too surprised. But again, like I am, yeah, I am pretty firm in where I'm at with that, but you never know. I mean, you never know.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah. And there's been a lot of conversations there that.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I had some traumas to work through back then. Yeah. You're like, a couple years. Give me some time.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Jesse and Jordan, for sure. Yeah, definitely Jesse and Jordan right now. I think that's... Layla and I were having this conversation a while ago that... I think it just confirms for me the reason why I didn't want my relationship to be on reality TV. I don't think it's. And granted, again, I think that these are all like there are issues with all of them that were already being had. Right.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I truly believe that. And I think you can also see when you have a firm foundation. I think like Michaela and Macy, not to say they don't have their issues, but I do feel like they have a pretty solid relationship with their husbands. And it feels like it's been playing out very nicely and everything's like just seemingly rainbows and butterflies for them.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And then the people who already had pretty difficult issues and struggles in their relationship, those are the ones that are... really struggling. And I think that when you're in this environment, it's already difficult. But when you throw in it being so public and then you have all these people that are opinionated around you, it creates a very difficult dynamic.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think that for me, I don't know that I could be married and be in this situation. I mean, I think it would be a very difficult thing to try. And even with like a solid foundation, I mean, it's just it's hard. I think it would be really hard. And I commend them for trying, but I also am like, it's enough as a mom to have to deal with it all.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah, it's actually predominantly not Mormon. Yeah. Right.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But then a relationship on top of it, I think it's a lot.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think when Jen lies, I think she does it in efforts to, I don't think it's with negative or manipulative intent. I don't think it's, yes, I don't think it's malicious intent. I think she does it because she's trying to whether like avoid some level of conflict oftentimes.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But then I think what's hard is that it ends up, you know, coming back around and then like biting her in the ass more than if she would have just been more forthcoming about it in the first place. And, you know, I've seen that multiple times where I think that whether it's like to Zach or whether it's to the girls, she'll say something that isn't necessarily full truth or whatever.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And then later it comes out and then it ends up being worse than if she would have just been forthcoming. And I get it. But I think it is something that she hopefully is learning lessons from for sure.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think there's a lot of that in some senses, maybe as far as like an issue that's already being had. Right. So it's the emotions are there. The emotions are authentic, but maybe like the reaction. is maybe being upped a little bit. And I know Whitney's an actor, so I think maybe she does some of that. But it's also like, I mean, she also does a good job at it, if that's the case.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So I do think that there for sure could be some of that. But I think that it's all coming from genuine people. I don't think that there's really anything that's like, I'm going to like bring this fake emotion and like try to make it a big deal. It's, you know, coming from an authentic place that maybe is played up for some more amplified.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah, I mean, you do, you have so much access to so many things, but you also have a lot of expectation. And I think that is a dangerous combination when you're involved in high demand religion because you, you know, you naturally, as every human does, has desires, temptations, and so on. And then when you have a social and religious expectation, it makes for difficult circumstances for sure.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
No, I do think it's exactly what you said, where people ask us all the time. And I think because of all the online drama, right? People are like, oh, I think this is fake. They're just playing this out. I wish. I wish. I mean, it's great for the show, right? It's great marketing. But I feel like the fact that people think we're just playing it up online, right?
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And the thing is, is that when you're already like influencers going into it, then online, yeah, it does kind of become like a marketing platform for the show naturally. But also it was already a marketing platform for ourselves prior to that. So I think it's kind of natural to like post those type of things and production in the show doesn't have a hand in any of that.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
They don't tell us what to post. They don't like any of the shade being thrown online. That is like fully and totally on everyone's own.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Well, that's the thing. Sometimes people, they're like, can you guys chill? Yeah, reel it in. You're going to spoil stuff at this point. And people are thinking it's fake. But yeah, no, it definitely is just... Everyone has their real raw emotions, whether it's played up or not. I think that that's case by case, person by person.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But what they really ultimately do is put you in situations to evoke emotion, for sure. And they're going to put you in situations that maybe you wouldn't otherwise be in, but they're never going to tell you how to act or tell you how to feel.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Hmm. I feel like maybe just because you didn't see a lot of Layla and Michaela on season one, I think they might be some just because, again, like there wasn't a lot of context to their story or their backstory. And I know that they both did film a lot that incorporated some of their backstories and like traumas and things like that. But it ultimately didn't end up making the cut.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So I think that they are two of the ones I would say that about. I also think that Whitney went about this season in a different manner. It's now, I don't know, as far as how I'm feeling now, if I still... Feel this way.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But going through season two, I think that there were a lot of things I was pleasantly surprised regarding Whitney about after seeing season one that I was kind of impressed by how she handled it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think it's certainly a possibility that it could be calculated. I mean, I will say that I am someone who has a tendency to give people the benefit of the doubt more than I should. It's kind of a joke amongst the girls. They know that I'm that way.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yeah, kind of. Which is, I think, like, that's the thing with Taylor, that it was, like, so crazy that it was such a, you know, our communication was so off for so long. Because I do feel like, I feel like for the most part, I am typically that way. There are, like, some exceptions, obviously. But I do think with...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
With Whitney, they were all concerned that I was getting close to Whitney at a time that felt convenient. And I can't say what her genuine intentions are or were. You know, of course, I'd always like to think that people would want to be my friend because they genuinely want to. Anybody would. But again, it's one of those things where I'm like, I don't really know.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But also it's kind of like I just shrug my shoulders and say, I don't really know. It's not something I really need to get to the bottom of necessarily. It's not like Whitney and I haven't had as long of a friendship as Taylor and I had. And even though I feel like we were getting close, I feel like there is still a level of
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
of me that goes maybe like they are right or maybe they the girls are on to something just because they've also known her longer than i have and so i do think that there is a possibility with that for sure what are some signs that you've seen that kind of give you that feeling
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I mean, I do think that when it's all laid out, when Whitney kind of started to have fallouts with some of the girls, I do think that is around the time where her and I did start getting closer. It was kind of a similar thing with Demi. And at the time, it felt like genuine friendship. And I can't really even say that it wasn't.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But when the other girls bring up the fact that the timing is convenient, it does make me go...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
oh yes maybe when you put it like that like I guess maybe it was and and almost like needing an ally and not wanting to feel you know isolated in their fallouts and and so on and so I just you know I think it's that's why I say with the Demi versus Jessie thing I'm like oh I think anything could be a possibility I mean you never really know but
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It's also like, I don't really feel a need to try to like dissect it and really figure it out because I'm like, what's that really going to prove? And also, are they ever going to admit it? Probably not.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It's a very emotional thing to watch unfold. I think for some of us who are actually divorced, too, and watching their marriages be the way they are and... going through hearing about certain things that have gone on in the past, things that are going on now, it is something that, you know, I've really tried to hold space for.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It's really difficult and it can feel very isolating to feel alone in your relationship. And that's the thing is, is it really proves, I think, once again, that it is reality and that really no one's, it's hard to play up that much emotion, I guess, is, is You know, especially in your relationship when there's a lot of damage there. It's coming from an authentic place.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It was never like conversations that like led to this. It was, we were already all like hanging out, having drinks, so on and so forth. Or maybe like one of the guys would like dare me and Taylor to kiss or something like that. And then it was like kind of from there, I guess, is what would lead to other things happening.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
When I first heard about anything happening at all, because obviously I wasn't there at Vanderpump Villa. That was before season one had even aired. But when we were in Scottsdale filming during season two, that was the first time I'd ever heard about anything happening. I know that Jen had voiced some opinions on it here and there, but I didn't know really any details about
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So Jen was there at Vanderpump Villa. Okay. And she felt like Demi was being too flirty and was acting in a certain way that she didn't agree with. And then she brings it up. There were a few comments made about it, but it wasn't until Scottsdale when I first heard about anything that had happened. And that was also the context that I heard about it in as well.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So, of course, the context that he's a sexual predator. Yes. That she was assaulted.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Right. And that's the hard thing. My first impression of what I was being told was very empathetic. I'm sorry. That's awful. Obviously, there's been a lot of information now. And I think what is confusing is that if you take that, set that aside, right, let's say that that did happen. There are also other things that had happened that were not assault.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think that that's what makes it very confusing. That only if that did happen, that's the only thing being talked about. Nothing else is being talked about. But also like then, you know, when you hear that that didn't happen and then it makes it very confusing and then, you know, you hear another end of it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And ultimately, like as firm as I am, like in my stance, I still have like empathy on both ends. It's a very like it's a it's a blurry, muddy situation all in all. And that's also part of why I'm not like team Jesse. Like I have to me. I'm very like, OK, like I've seen problematic behavior. I am hearing these different sides and I lean one way.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I think that's also with everything that you're saying, it does, you know, raises some questions because you never want to be the type of person who is victim blaming or to invalidate that experience for her. It's the same reason why I would never really speak to, and I wasn't there, same reason why I would never speak to the situation with Taylor.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I can hold space for it and have empathy for it, but I...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I don't know at the end of the day and that is what's difficult is because if it's not true it's also regardless of his character as a person because I mean clearly there there's a lot there to unpack with like how problematic he knew going into it that all of these women are married right so it's like if you are even thinking that there's a possibility at all
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
It's already like he's already disrespecting a boundary by like coming on to them in any facet, obviously, especially if it's assault. But regardless of like his his character, I think making an accusation like that, if it's not true, is also wrong.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
very wrong and so from what what you know i know now yes do i still have like reservations of like oh like well i hope this is like actually the case but then there's also like substantial substantial evidence that makes certain things feel a little bit indisputable the impression i'm getting from you is something happened between demi and him
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Right. And that's what's difficult. You have like two sides of not OK on different ends. And then it's also like most of the people who are having conversations about this and like talking about it weren't really there. Right. So then that makes it hard, too, because you're like, OK, well. we can't really say at the end of the day, you have to take somebody's word for it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And there are, even though like that is the case, there are also things that have come out that I feel like are evidence to support certain narratives. But I mean, yeah, it's a hard line to toe because you don't really know. You can like, again, I still feel like pretty firm in where I'm at and my belief. But I mean, yeah, I think anything's possible and I think some people can be very convincing.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Was it weird for one of us? I know I've tried to remember this if we have. I know we had conversations about it, but we I think there's a lot of people that think that there were so many instances where like that would happen. And that wasn't really the case where there was I mean, and there were other things that happened that like Chase and I weren't involved in.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And it makes it a little hard when there's still so much unfolding, but
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I know, it'll be crazy. Yeah, I mean, I'm just grateful for the opportunity, you know, for better, for worse. Obviously, it comes with its ups and downs. You of all people know that. Reality TV is not for everyone. I guess I'll find out if it's for me. Still have yet to know that. We'll find out tomorrow.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But I'm just grateful for the opportunity and with all of the chaos that comes with this group of women and all the fallouts and the resolutions. All in all, I'm also grateful for them and for the friendships that I've created. And I'm just excited for everybody to see that.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So I'm not dating. I'm just... Single mom. Single mom in it, just soaking up my time with my kids and that's it.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Oh man, I've gained me. Like authentic, real, raw Miranda. I think that that's something that I... Sometimes you don't really realize how much of you is being masked. And I think, too, it wasn't even for me, like just my relationship alone, because I do feel like there were a lot of ways that I was myself within it. But there were also a lot of ways that I felt like I wasn't. And.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
also within religion and dissecting what that looked like for me and being very vulnerable and true to myself with where I was at with that and within my relationship. I just feel like I've really come to find a lot of myself And I started dating pretty quickly, I think too quickly, which is why I think, you know, ultimately it ended. I think I just needed time to just be.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think that's exactly what every single mom or even if somebody is considering it to do is to take that time and find yourself and to enjoy your own company and to just soak up your time with just your children and just love the alone time. I think it's hard when you're... I was in a relationship for seven years. And I think that coming out of it, I realized I love living alone. I love...
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And but as far as like him and I go, like there wasn't like these set up like swinging parties where everyone would get together and swing like that's not the way that it happened.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
my alone time and I liked it before but I feel like I really love it now and I realize how much I value it but it's because I like myself and I think that a lot of people have a hard time being alone when they don't really like themselves and I think in this process that's kind of what I've come to find out is that I like being in my own head and I like who I am.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I've learned that through all of these experiences. It's brought me to where I am. And so if I could give anybody advice in my position, it would just be to give yourself grace, but just really love your own company.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Right. No keys in a bowl. Yeah. Yeah. No. And in fact, it's funny because there's so many things that I've found out about like the swinging world that I'm like, that's a thing. I didn't even know there were apps that people could use to swing. So I'm like, I don't know. Maybe I make a bad swinger.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Oh, yeah. You learn to compartmentalize pretty well. I mean, I try to take my mic off at the end of the day, hand it in. I'm like, all right, clocked out. See you guys next time. Beautiful.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But yeah, I think that there were definitely conversations that were had. I think for me, I was very, very firm with the things that maybe other couples had done that I was not interested in doing that. And that's something I told Taylor as well. The first time that anything further than kissing had happened with her and another couple,
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
she came over and we were talking and I told her or she asked me she's like is that anything that you and Chase would ever be interested in doing and and I was like I mean I'll be honest the only way I would be interested in doing that with anyone any of the other couples if the other husband was someone like Michael B. Jordan and unfortunately that's not the case so yeah I mean I feel like we did have conversations but I also there wasn't really like a sit down of
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
These are like strict lines, strict boundaries, because it wasn't like it was never like this is like a world we're going to explore. It wasn't like we want to be swingers. It was just kind of circumstances we were like we got ourself into and then like things would happen. And then maybe like afterwards, we're like, oh, like that was kind of weird. Is that something you regret not doing?
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Oh, for sure. I mean, I think I regret pretty much anything that happened, to be honest. But also, I think that there's a lot that I've learned from it. And, you know, in some weird twisted way, I think that there's a level of gratitude that I have for it now.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
The swinging had nothing to do with my divorce. I don't think that played a role in the slightest, actually. So I think there were other issues that led to that being more of an okay thing, I guess, in our mind at the time. But for me, I think... Back then, for sure, I think shame was a big part of it because now, like, I mean, obviously I can talk about it openly.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I feel like I've worked through a lot. I have regret for the way that I handled it. I also think, I mean, at the time I was going through a faith crisis that I... no one knew about. So I think then that happening, I'm also dealing with having to confront that with my family on top of everything else, right? And his family as well, our friends that were Mormon. It was a lot.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So I think shame was a big part of it. But to be honest, I think the biggest part was not really being true to myself. There were a lot of instances that I knew that I was uncomfortable and I didn't really... I wished I would have been more firm in certain boundaries. The cabin party where we played spin the bottle, we were staying there for two nights.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So it was, I had multiple people calling me and messaging me and they're like, are you seeing Taylor's live? And at this point, this was, I want to say like two, three weeks after our fallout. So it wasn't like right away. So Taylor and I weren't really speaking at the time. And so when I get on, I'm like, oh. Oh, OK. Yeah, very jarring. Even Taylor, I don't think, expected it to be what it was.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I made up an excuse that my nanny had something come up and I went home. I didn't stay the second night. Chase stayed there and I just told them that I had to get home to the kids because I just woke up feeling like so sick to my stomach. And I was like, that was just like not me. And I think that was like what was hard for me is that I was just like I'm acting out of character.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And that's not me saying that anybody made me do anything. But I think that's exactly it is that I knew that that's like, you know, on me.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
I think that was it. There was only two times where we ever like kissed anyone. And there was one other instance that I don't remember if it was before or after. That was like it was like me. They just blindfolded me and Taylor. It's all still kind of a drunkard blur, to be honest. But they blindfolded me and Taylor and like we kissed a few people.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And that was like that was either the last time or right before that time. But those were the only two instances where I ever did anything with anyone aside from my husband. And I think that's another thing is a lot of people think that That like we were all just, I don't know, having crazy orgies and giving blowjobs. And I'm like, no, I kissed some people. Weird, for sure. Embarrassing.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Absolutely. But I don't think it's what people really thought it was. And I think that's why I responded in the way that I did. Just because when Taylor initially came out on her live, she said that everyone was hooking up with everyone. And so my like, I was like, that's not what happened.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And so I think that's why I kind of was like, no, I was not involved because I wasn't involved in like the sense that I feel like it was being portrayed. Yeah. And so I think I like justified it in that sense. But what I wish I would have done and said, no, like I wasn't involved in that. That's not what happened. Like this is what happened.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
But obviously it wasn't really something I ever would have come out with. So I, you know, with Taylor, she had kind of like thought through what she was going to say, you know, what the narrative was going to be. And so I was just kind of like scrambling. And I'm like, well, how do I handle this? Because this looks so bad. And even the truth of the matter is still like weird and uncomfortable.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So I'm like, I still feel like I didn't even want to be honest about what actually did happen. Yeah. And I, you know, looking back, obviously I wish that I would have, but.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
That was only around like Tate and Taylor for us. And it like happened, I think once in park city. And then.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
No, no, no, no, no. It was like, you like just in the same room with your partner.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
So it was like, you and Chase are having sex on one couch and they're having sex on a bed in the same room. Yes. Like something like that. Yeah. So it wasn't like for spectating.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I think like that, and that's another thing for sure that it's like, oh yeah, like weird, but also like not hooking up with other people.
The Viall Files
E933 – Going Deeper with Miranda McWhorter
And I think that's exactly what happened. Yeah.