Morley Conn

It could be if it's an actively traded ETF, a few pennies, a penny wide.

But if we're looking to move a million shares of an ETF, we need to take into consideration as market makers where we're going to be able to clear the stock or bonds that we're going to need to sell on the other side.

That takes experience.

It takes losing money, Cameron.

So I can tell you this, as a trader, I've been in this business 30 years.

You don't learn from your winning trades, Cameron.

You only learn from your losing trades.

It's a rite of passage in this market, in ETFs in particular, as a market maker, that you're going to lose at some point

a six-figure, mid-six-figure P&L, and that's just part of the rite of passage of learning how to properly price blocks.

As well, every different product will have a different trading personality.

So gold ETFs will trade differently than REITs, or for that matter, energy, or broader market.

And so an ETF market maker over time will learn where they can move said amount of risk

so that they can protect themselves and hedge themselves off on an ETF transaction.

That is very accurate, which was often why we will quote large blocks.

We will refer to the current market, but we will price that basket or that basket of underlying stocks that are linked to that ETF at some sort of spread over the current price.

That could be in basis points.

That could be in cents.

But that is very, very standard fare in ETF market making.

And that is correct because the liquidity, when all is said and done, is driven by the underlying components of the ETF, not that visible ETF quote that you see on the stock exchange board.

Certainly.