Murad Ahmed

Yeah, and this is a strongly held belief by Demis.

When asked, why did you do...

a PhD in neuroscience and go into video games and play chess and all of these things.

He has said he needed his credentials to be unimpeachable when he came to running a company like DeepMind.

And what he meant was that he wanted to surround himself with PhDs

and for them to know that he probably was the smartest guy in the room and that he could talk to them at that level as well as running the company.

I think we've given a lot of airtime to the Bull case.

I am going to insist that we be good, sceptical journalists and also really talk through the Bear case as well.

I think he said that he needed his credentials to be unimpeachable.

But this is OpenAI's president whose personal diary was read out.

And this is part of the problem of being a big tech company.

You go from a startup that was founded in a garage to becoming one of the biggest companies in the world.

I've known people who've worked at Google and they get stifled.

They become cogs in a massive machine.

That's just the inevitability of being a big tech company, that the likes of an open AI, an anthropic, is going to come along and be disruptive.

That's just the history of innovation, right?

Okay, so I think we've given a good airing to the bull and bear case.

But now I'm going to ask you to put your colours to the mask.

Google, are they going to win the AI race?

Or where do you think they'll finish up in that particular race?