Mustafa Suleyman

And I think that's probably right for the time being.

But again, what we lack in society at the moment is a way to put the brakes on collectively.

How do we have a coherent conversation about risks?

So many people have said we sort of do need a little bit of an accident for people to understand that.

And that's a real shame because we have lots of examples of things going wrong in recent history in social media and elsewhere.

you know, as you know well, like our COVID preparedness or pandemic preparedness is no better than it was before.

And we lost 10 million lives and a trillion dollars of GDP value.

I mean, it's just like unbelievable that we could be so bad at that.

And I think it needs everybody paying attention to push us collectively to be able to do better.

I genuinely think that's correct.

I think that that's the definition of being an adaptive and resilient species.

We become brittle and fragile when we withdraw and don't think about it.

And I think the same is true of our engagement in the politics of our age.

If we just get overwhelmed by our news feeds and disengage and get angry about the things that we see,

and as a result react by ignoring it, then that's the way to create more fragility and accelerate collapse.

We have to face the reality of these things.

And again, I really like this idea of pessimism aversion.

We have to be comfortable talking about the likelihood of really dark outcomes to be able to confront them, to inoculate ourselves to them, as you say.

Yeah, I think that's totally spot on.

And it's not just about chatting to an AI, you know, co-pilot or chat to whatever.