Nafeez Ahmed

So we need to tear down democracies as we know it.

So we need to tear down democracies as we know it.

Yeah, I think what I've come to realize in writing the book, and I've been tracking these groups for the last 10 to 15 years, and even having tracked it, didn't quite begin to see how they're working, how they're working as a network, how they work together. And this is not, I want to be clear, this is not like a homogenous network. It's not like everyone's a Nazi.

Yeah, I think what I've come to realize in writing the book, and I've been tracking these groups for the last 10 to 15 years, and even having tracked it, didn't quite begin to see how they're working, how they're working as a network, how they work together. And this is not, I want to be clear, this is not like a homogenous network. It's not like everyone's a Nazi.

But what's really fascinating is how there are core groups of people who are Nazis and And a lot of the people we're talking about are neo-Nazi parties that even collaborated with the Nazis during the Second World War. And these are parties which are now active in Europe, in European elections, you know, whether it's the FPO in Austria or the Vlaams Belang in Belgium, the French National Rally.

But what's really fascinating is how there are core groups of people who are Nazis and And a lot of the people we're talking about are neo-Nazi parties that even collaborated with the Nazis during the Second World War. And these are parties which are now active in Europe, in European elections, you know, whether it's the FPO in Austria or the Vlaams Belang in Belgium, the French National Rally.

All these parties have got actual historical Nazi roots. And I think what's interesting is to see how the last few decades have They've deliberately attempted to rebrand themselves.

All these parties have got actual historical Nazi roots. And I think what's interesting is to see how the last few decades have They've deliberately attempted to rebrand themselves.

So here's the thing. I mean, after we defeated the Nazis, it wasn't fashionable to be a fascist. It was a tactical shift. And with some of these organizations, they even talked about it. So like the Vlaams Belang party I mentioned in Belgium, I think it was the 1990s where their leader, Philip de Winter, wrote an op-ed in a Belgian newspaper after they'd rebranded.

So here's the thing. I mean, after we defeated the Nazis, it wasn't fashionable to be a fascist. It was a tactical shift. And with some of these organizations, they even talked about it. So like the Vlaams Belang party I mentioned in Belgium, I think it was the 1990s where their leader, Philip de Winter, wrote an op-ed in a Belgian newspaper after they'd rebranded.

I think they were originally called Lambs Block, and they were very well known as a Holocaust-denying organization. And they rebranded, changed their name, changed their party goals. But he wrote an op-ed where he said this whole shift is all about tactics. He actually said it. It's all about tactics. Fundamentally, we are the same party. We've got the same goals.

I think they were originally called Lambs Block, and they were very well known as a Holocaust-denying organization. And they rebranded, changed their name, changed their party goals. But he wrote an op-ed where he said this whole shift is all about tactics. He actually said it. It's all about tactics. Fundamentally, we are the same party. We've got the same goals.

And that kind of really kind of let the cat out of the bag that a lot of these organizations, it was all about tactics.

And that kind of really kind of let the cat out of the bag that a lot of these organizations, it was all about tactics.

So it's difficult to trace it down. I would say you've got this interesting mix of these political parties, which were, as I mentioned before, you've got these parties, which have these historically Nazi roots.

So it's difficult to trace it down. I would say you've got this interesting mix of these political parties, which were, as I mentioned before, you've got these parties, which have these historically Nazi roots.

You've then got slightly newer political parties, which are, you know, they're often called far right, like the Sweden Democrats and other ones, which again, they weren't around during the Nazi era. But when they were founded, they were neo-Nazi sympathizers openly, you know. So you've got groups like that. And then you've got other networks which have organized around them.

You've then got slightly newer political parties, which are, you know, they're often called far right, like the Sweden Democrats and other ones, which again, they weren't around during the Nazi era. But when they were founded, they were neo-Nazi sympathizers openly, you know. So you've got groups like that. And then you've got other networks which have organized around them.

Some of them are research groups. Some of them are think tanks. And I think some of the most interesting ones that I found really shocking. So here's a strange intersection. where you've got groups like the Heritage Foundation, who are like a really established, well-known conservative thing, one of the most powerful in America.

Some of them are research groups. Some of them are think tanks. And I think some of the most interesting ones that I found really shocking. So here's a strange intersection. where you've got groups like the Heritage Foundation, who are like a really established, well-known conservative thing, one of the most powerful in America.