Natalie Kitroff

From The New York Times, I'm Natalie Kitroff.

This is The Daily.

In the years since Donald Trump roared back to power, one of the most surprising storylines of his second term has been a series of increasingly public ruptures between the president and the movement he created.

On everything from affordability to foreign wars, key figures on the right are now daring to challenge Trump's priorities and his effectiveness.

Today, my colleague Robert Draper on the growing tensions inside the MAGA movement and what they tell us about what the American right might look like in a post-Trump world.

It's Thursday, December 11th.

Robert, hi.

Welcome back to the show.

So we're coming to you because for several years now, you've been reporting extensively on the right.

And as a part of that, you spent a lot of time with some of the key figures in the MAGA movement, some of whom have started to openly speak out against the president.

And so we're hoping you can help us understand what's been happening in the relationship between President Trump and his movement, which until recently looked pretty unshakable.

Right.

It does strike me as honestly stunning because it feels as though just a few months ago, we were thinking of this president really as all powerful, as kind of invincible.

He was swept in with this mandate.

He was taking executive actions left and right.

And very quickly, you're saying he's now being seen within his own party as vulnerable, it sounds like.

Okay, so take us back to that time during the late summer when this started to emerge.

When did all of this start to feel distinct to you?

So, Robert, where do you first see the impact of that loss on MAGA?

Like, what's the first example of these divisions that were bubbling up, starting to spill out in the open after Kirk's death?