Natalie Kitroweth

And what do you think the answer to that question is, Keith? I mean, you've been studying and reporting on China and trade for decades.

And what do you think the answer to that question is, Keith? I mean, you've been studying and reporting on China and trade for decades.

But knowing how slow the U.S. is to act on all of these different fronts, it seems like a long shot, honestly, to imagine that the U.S. would be able to follow through on this kind of comprehensive approach. And in the meantime, tariffs could drag us into this protracted trade war that could raise prices on consumers.

But knowing how slow the U.S. is to act on all of these different fronts, it seems like a long shot, honestly, to imagine that the U.S. would be able to follow through on this kind of comprehensive approach. And in the meantime, tariffs could drag us into this protracted trade war that could raise prices on consumers.

Keith, from what you're saying, there are a lot of economists and national security experts that have come around at this point to the idea that Chinese trade dominance is potentially a real problem. Why do you think it took so long? Why are we in this position now where we're potentially too far behind to even catch up?

Keith, from what you're saying, there are a lot of economists and national security experts that have come around at this point to the idea that Chinese trade dominance is potentially a real problem. Why do you think it took so long? Why are we in this position now where we're potentially too far behind to even catch up?

The fact that that's shifted, that there's much more skepticism now about the trade relationship with China, how much credit can Trump take for that?

The fact that that's shifted, that there's much more skepticism now about the trade relationship with China, how much credit can Trump take for that?

So you're there. Is China afraid of Donald Trump or do they feel at this point that they're so far ahead and were given a pass by the U.S. and its allies for so long that it's actually just too late for anyone to really challenge their place as what you said was the world's sole manufacturing superpower?

So you're there. Is China afraid of Donald Trump or do they feel at this point that they're so far ahead and were given a pass by the U.S. and its allies for so long that it's actually just too late for anyone to really challenge their place as what you said was the world's sole manufacturing superpower?

Keith, thanks so much.

Keith, thanks so much.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. In back to back rulings, federal courts threw a wrench in President Trump's plans to remake the government bureaucracy. On Friday, a federal judge ordered the White House to temporarily pause some parts of its attempt to shut down USAID, which distributes foreign aid, calling it, quote, unconstitutional and illegal.

We'll be right back. Here's what else you need to know today. In back to back rulings, federal courts threw a wrench in President Trump's plans to remake the government bureaucracy. On Friday, a federal judge ordered the White House to temporarily pause some parts of its attempt to shut down USAID, which distributes foreign aid, calling it, quote, unconstitutional and illegal.

The ruling halts the plan to put 2,200 employees on administrative leave and recall all of the agency's workers who are overseas. Then, on Saturday, another federal judge temporarily blocked Elon Musk's team from accessing the payment systems at the Department of Treasury.

The ruling halts the plan to put 2,200 employees on administrative leave and recall all of the agency's workers who are overseas. Then, on Saturday, another federal judge temporarily blocked Elon Musk's team from accessing the payment systems at the Department of Treasury.

The judge said giving so-called special government employees, like Musk, access to such highly sensitive information raises the risks of leaks and makes the financial system more vulnerable to hacking. If the Trump administration refuses to comply with the rulings, it could pose a serious test for America's rule of law.

The judge said giving so-called special government employees, like Musk, access to such highly sensitive information raises the risks of leaks and makes the financial system more vulnerable to hacking. If the Trump administration refuses to comply with the rulings, it could pose a serious test for America's rule of law.

Today's episode was produced by Mary Wilson, Muj Zaydi, Claire Tennesketter, and Alex Stern, with help from Nina Feldman. It was edited by Lisa Chow. Contains original music by Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Rowan Nemisto, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Paula Schumann and Larissa Anderson.

Today's episode was produced by Mary Wilson, Muj Zaydi, Claire Tennesketter, and Alex Stern, with help from Nina Feldman. It was edited by Lisa Chow. Contains original music by Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, and Rowan Nemisto, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly. Special thanks to Paula Schumann and Larissa Anderson.