Nate Hagens

So as way of introduction, we have a mutual friend who knows a lot about your work and a lot about my work.

I don't think you know too much about my work, but my work is shifting and I

For the last 20 years, I've been focused on the biophysical macro of how does our system work and what's going to happen and how do today's events change it.

And now I'm more and more interested in biophysical micro, like who are we going to be?

How are we going to live?

And those such questions.

And you are an interdisciplinary scholar and meditation practitioner who, I understand, has studied under Tibetan Buddhists and other non-dual wisdom traditions.

And you write extensively on the topics of lucid dreaming and death and meditation and darkness.

So with such a segue, maybe we could start.

What are some of the first things from modern culture that you unlearned?

Well, first of all, you're like the fourth person that I've had on that has mentioned the word non-dual, and I don't think I still understand that.

Could you give me a brief unpacking of what that means and why it's important?

Do other great apes have this dualism?

Do ancient humans pre agricultural revolution have this duality and do babies born today?

What are your thoughts on that?

Did we have this all figured out back in the day, the wisdom traditions, and we just lost our way?

Or like, what is this deep scholarly study of ancient wisdom traditions concluded for you, if anything?

So the juxtaposition between display and reality is manifesting in so many ways in our culture.

There's the technology and money is the display versus energy materials and the ecosystem is the reality.

There is the social status of primates that try to