Nathalie Kitcheroef

From The New York Times, I'm Nathalie Kitcheroef. This is The Daily. Over the weekend, the U.S. and China met for the first time since President Trump rapidly escalated a trade war between the world's two economic superpowers. The negotiations could have huge implications for a global economy rocked by Trump's tariffs.

From The New York Times, I'm Nathalie Kitcheroef. This is The Daily. Over the weekend, the U.S. and China met for the first time since President Trump rapidly escalated a trade war between the world's two economic superpowers. The negotiations could have huge implications for a global economy rocked by Trump's tariffs.

Today, my colleague, Beijing Bureau Chief Keith Bradshaw, on the pressures facing China as it came to the negotiating table, and why it so badly needs a deal. It's Monday, May 12th. Keith, it's nice to have you back on the show. Thank you, Natalie. Good to be back. So we on the show have talked quite a bit about the impact of tariffs on the U.S. economy.

Today, my colleague, Beijing Bureau Chief Keith Bradshaw, on the pressures facing China as it came to the negotiating table, and why it so badly needs a deal. It's Monday, May 12th. Keith, it's nice to have you back on the show. Thank you, Natalie. Good to be back. So we on the show have talked quite a bit about the impact of tariffs on the U.S. economy.

We've talked less about the impact of tariffs on China's economy. And as we enter what seems like potentially a new phase in this trade war where the two sides are talking to one another, it seems important to understand something you've been reporting on, Keith, which is that the tariffs present a real nightmare scenario for China. Tell me about that.

We've talked less about the impact of tariffs on China's economy. And as we enter what seems like potentially a new phase in this trade war where the two sides are talking to one another, it seems important to understand something you've been reporting on, Keith, which is that the tariffs present a real nightmare scenario for China. Tell me about that.

It's interesting. I think that analysis, that reality is going to come potentially as a real surprise to a lot of our listeners, because the last time we had you on the show, we were talking about what a powerhouse China was, what an exporting superpower this country had become. And what you're saying is that domestically, the economy doesn't actually look quite that strong.

It's interesting. I think that analysis, that reality is going to come potentially as a real surprise to a lot of our listeners, because the last time we had you on the show, we were talking about what a powerhouse China was, what an exporting superpower this country had become. And what you're saying is that domestically, the economy doesn't actually look quite that strong.

Right. 145% tariffs slapped on your goods by the world's largest consumer economy will make a bet on exports look a little risky, especially if your people aren't buying things. So let's get into that, Keith. Why is that? Why is China not a good economy for consumption, as you put it?

Right. 145% tariffs slapped on your goods by the world's largest consumer economy will make a bet on exports look a little risky, especially if your people aren't buying things. So let's get into that, Keith. Why is that? Why is China not a good economy for consumption, as you put it?

It's a little confusing, Keith. This is the Communist Party of China, right? I mean, no welfare programs, no social safety net. How do you square that?

It's a little confusing, Keith. This is the Communist Party of China, right? I mean, no welfare programs, no social safety net. How do you square that?

The Chinese calling the Americans socialists is just wild to imagine.

The Chinese calling the Americans socialists is just wild to imagine.

So the Chinese are just saving a ton in part because there's just very little social safety net and they're not spending that much in part because of these really high sales taxes. What are they doing with all the money they put away?

So the Chinese are just saving a ton in part because there's just very little social safety net and they're not spending that much in part because of these really high sales taxes. What are they doing with all the money they put away?

Okay, here's where housing comes in. You mentioned there was this huge housing crisis. Where does that story start?

Okay, here's where housing comes in. You mentioned there was this huge housing crisis. Where does that story start?

It sounds like people poured their money into the real estate market because it was really the only option they had to get a return. And the government is making it a lot easier to get a loan. And that creates this bubble, this classic real estate bubble. So when does that bubble burst?

It sounds like people poured their money into the real estate market because it was really the only option they had to get a return. And the government is making it a lot easier to get a loan. And that creates this bubble, this classic real estate bubble. So when does that bubble burst?