Nathalie Kitro-Eff

Just talk about how exactly that would work.

Let's talk about Newsom here because I think he's in a really interesting position.

On the one hand, it makes sense that a potential 2028 contender for the presidency doesn't want to alienate billionaires.

But

It would also seem perilous for him to stake out a position that at least on the surface might paint him as not wanting to tax the wealthy at this moment when economic populism is so potent.

So talk to me about his motivations and the position he finds himself in.

He's trying to thread a needle there, right?

He's saying, I'm not opposed to this thing, but I'm opposed to a version that puts California at a disadvantage.

And the way to handle this is at the national level.

That's the way to go about this.

He's, again, threading the needle.

Whereas on the more progressive side of the Democratic Party, you have people like Bernie Sanders saying, look, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good here.

Taxing billionaires is good.

Maybe this isn't going to solve all of our problems, solve inequality writ large.

But overall, we support this concept.

Obviously, Bernie Sanders doesn't have to be the governor of California, but you see the contrast there.

What is the message, do you think, of this fight in California for other states that are pursuing populist policies like this?

I'm thinking of New York, where Governor Hochul is proposing a pied-à-terre tax.

Because on the one hand, this tax, you said, has a lot of support.

And on the other, there is this very loud opposition that seems to be rooted in a fear of alienating billionaires or losing them because the state has become very reliant on these ultra-wealthy people.