Nathan Berry

And it's just an order of magnitude more effort to do it in real estate investing or something like that because ConvertKit has so much momentum.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Well, if I look back on my journey as an entrepreneur, so many of the inflection points came from people that I met in person, right?

Say a conference like MicroConf, where there was one years ago that Amy Hoy and Alex Hillman put on called Bacon Biz, which is just a fantastic conference.

And it's just for the people who are focused on making money, right?

And there's all of these...

uh, events that you hang out with, hang out at and meet someone.

And they're the one who drops an idea that, that changes something for you.

Or for example, there was this conference years ago called the world domination summit, like Chris Guillebeau, um, hosted.

And I went in 2012 and I knew no one super shy, like, okay, I guess I let's do this.

I'm supposed to meet people, you know, that kind of thing.

And I just decided to walk up and talk to two guys who were standing there talking.

Um,

Turns out to be James Clear, who's the author of Atomic Habits now.

But at the time, he had a tiny little newsletter.

Yeah, three books.

Yeah, well before anything.

And then Caleb Wojcik, who's this incredible video producer.