Nathaniel Frum
Appearances
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
He was a roving foreign correspondent, chasing every conflict through the 50s and 60s, until helping found his own paper, the Toronto Sun, a paper that still exists today. Pete continued to write until his death in 2013. The last thing he wrote was his own obituary. My grandpa left behind a bird's nest of papers, photos, and tapes, fragments of his extraordinary career.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
It was all packed and sent away to Canada's National Archives by my grandmother, Yvonne. But six years after Pete's death, I brought those boxes back. By this time, I was in my mid-20s, trying to make it as a screenwriter in L.A., trying to find my next story. What if it lived in the boxes that Pete had left behind? I popped one of his hundreds of cassettes into a player. Tape 12, 1991. Okay.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Yeah, no, I had no idea you had dug up the boxes. I don't think when I first reached out to you that I understood how deep this story went, not just with you, but with the nation. In the years we've worked together since, I've started to realize how important it is that this story is told.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
It feels appropriate that we've teamed up, and all these years later, you walking me through this story, you being the vet and me being the rookie. In an era where most serial killer stories are known and most murderers are famous, why isn't this one well-known? When I was reading about it, every detail was stunning to me.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Do you think this story was suppressed, or is there another reason why it wasn't well-known?
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
There's no shortage of serial killer content out there. Documentaries on streaming services, TV shows, movies, fiction thrillers that sit on bestseller lists for weeks. But in Clifford Olson's case, there was no long, winding, twist-filled road to catching him. Because for a long time, police didn't know there was a him to catch. Until Olson told them. Until he was able to get something in return.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Olson proposed a deal. $10,000 for each body. For each child he led the RCMP to.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
This season on Calls from a Killer, from CBC's Uncovered.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
This man, hoping to keep the peace at home, is my grandpa, Pete.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Calls from a Killer was written and produced by me, Nathaniel Frum, Arlene Beinen, and senior producers Ashley Mack and Andrew Friesen. Additional writing by Alina Ghosh. Mixing and sound design by Evan Kelly. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is the senior manager, and Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Tune in next week for an all-new episode of Calls from a Killer from CBC's Uncover. Or you can binge the whole series by subscribing to our True Crime Premium channel on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
On the other end of the phone call is a man named Clifford Olson, a man convicted in 1982 of killing 11 children and teenagers. The oldest of them, 18. The youngest of them, 9. Pete's archives housed hundreds of hours of calls with Olson. They began in 1990, and they went on for years. And they were placed by Olson from prison.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Jean Chrétien. Holson was writing the prime minister.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
But once in a while, you'd be reminded who's on the line.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
But Pete wasn't recording these tapes alone. It became clear he had a partner. And she was where it all started.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
This is a CBC Podcast. The following episode contains strong language and descriptions of violence. Please take care when listening. Whenever I stayed at my grandparents' house as a kid, there was a rule. Always pick up the phone. Because you never knew who could be calling for my grandpa Pete. A Soviet spy, a cabinet minister, a serial killer.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
She was a journalist herself.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Although Olson often didn't treat her like one.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
From what I could hear, she was also patient with Olsen. But then there was this exchange.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
I paused the tape and scribbled on a post-it. Find Arlene. This is Calls from a Killer from CBC's Uncover. I'm Nathaniel Frum.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
Growing up, I'd learn what my grandpa did for a living through the stories he'd share at the holidays or summers at the lake. It wasn't that he was bragging. Pete was actually really humble. He just had stories no one else could tell. And he never told the same one twice, because he never needed to. There was the time he stood just feet away from Lee Harvey Oswald as Jack Ruby pulled the trigger.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E1: The Olson Tapes | Calls From a Killer
The time a bullet went through his sleeve in Algiers as fighting between the Algerians and French raged. The time he met the Beatles in Hong Kong. He didn't even think to mention that one until a couple years before he died. Long story short, he thought they all needed haircuts. My grandpa, Peter Worthington, was a newspaper man. And for some time, he was one of the newspaper men in Toronto.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
The hidden story of a notorious serial killer — and his secret calls from behind bars
When we get down to the point where you've got a missing nine-year-old kid who's six blocks from his home and disappears when he's at the corner store getting an ice cream or a candy bar, you've got a big problem.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
They were an incorruptible force for good, maybe a little too earnest, but effective. The Mountie always gets his man. If I had a rose-colored view of the RCMP, that was also due in large part to my grandfather, Peter Worthington. Pete viewed the RCMP fondly, and the cops liked Pete. Throughout his journalism career, they had a good working relationship.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
The same day that Judy Cosma's body was discovered, Corporal Ed Drozda received a call from Clifford Olson. He was shopping himself around, offering to become a paid informant. At the time, the RCMP was still haggling over the details of putting Olson under surveillance. Two days later, 15-year-old Terry Lynn Carson disappeared. Her mother reported her missing.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
The next day, the RCMP finally put a tail on Olson. The officers tasked with watching him noted he was driving erratically, off habit, and at a frantic speed. He was almost impossible to track. By 1.30 p.m., on the very day they started, the RCMP pulled their surveillance operation. They assessed that Olson was already on to them. They were wrong.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
The same night, at around 10 p.m., Olson went to meet Dennis Tarr at the Caribou Hotel Lounge in Surrey with a younger man in tow. Olson thought Detective Tarr was looking to him for tips. $200,000 worth of TVs had recently been stolen in the area. He smelt a paycheck.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
But Tarr, with RCMP Corporals Fred Mela and Ed Rosda watching from another table, was more interested in asking about the missing children.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
As Olson leaves the restaurant, Tarr is more convinced than ever that Olson is responsible for the string of missing young people. Now with Olsen firmly back in their sights, RCMP surveillance follows him as he drives into the night. Outside Surrey, they observe Olsen with his male friend pick up another young man and then two teenage girls looking to hitchhike.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
The surveillance team stops the car and sees the two girls holding beers they say Olsen gave them. Olsen is arrested for contributing to juvenile delinquency. We don't know how, but Olson is released by 3.30 a.m. that morning. And by lunchtime that day, he meets with Tarr again at a White Spot, which is a chain of restaurants in B.C.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
And he's properly introduced to the RCMP's Fred Mele and Ed Drosta. This is Olson recording his perspective of the meeting in 1991.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
He cultivated reliable sources in the Mounties and became their go-to reporter when they wanted to get a story out. Pete knew they had their faults, but he wasn't about to burn a bridge at the expense of a scoop. Until recently, I never really gave much thought to the RCMP and what their function is in Canada. They're like the Canadian FBI, but also not.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
By the peak of summer, there was no escaping the news that children in the lower mainland of British Columbia were in great danger. but the police were still not making it public that they only suspected one person to be responsible.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
Former TV reporter John Daly says patience was starting to fray, as was the previously civil relationship between the media and the police.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
They serve as state police, sorry, I mean provincial police, but not in all provinces. Ontario and Quebec have their own. Also, in many places in the country, there are no local police forces. So, contrary to what you'd think of a federal authority that investigates serious crimes, it's up to the nearby RCMP detachment to do traffic stops and respond to 911 calls.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
It's a confusing patchwork of jurisdictions across one of the largest countries in the world, if we're talking landmass. But when Clifford Olson was on the loose committing murder after murder, there could be no doubt catching him was the RCMP's responsibility. Before working on this story with Arlene, I thought they'd done a pretty good job. They'd caught a serial killer in a matter of months.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
Corporal Mele would later tell my grandfather, Pete, that at first, they had no intention of paying up.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
Those lawyers included Bob Shantz. Once the Crown prosecutor when Olson was a prison snitch, Shantz was now acting as Olson's defense lawyer. He'd testify in a court case that he advised Olson the police were making promises they wouldn't keep.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
Former RCMP investigator Glenn Woods will admit he wasn't in the room where the big decisions were made. But he knows his colleagues didn't have a strong hand.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
The Mounties finally got their man. But at what cost? My grandfather Pete would often remark to me that the money the RCMP paid Olson was the best $100,000 they'd ever spent. And he probably knew some things most wouldn't, because Pete had no problem getting the RCMP to talk. We were less fortunate. Glenn Woods was the only one who would talk to us.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
Ed Drozda hung up on me as soon as I mentioned what I was researching. When Arlene got another ex-RCMP investigator on the line, he refused to be interviewed for fear of backlash from former colleagues.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
Surely that's a sign of solid police work. But as I learned how many times Olson slipped through the RCMP's fingers, how many victims were ignored, how many interviews they didn't do, how many times Olson was practically begging to be caught, my opinion changed. The authorities didn't explain themselves. Not back then, and not now. This is Calls from a Killer from CBC's Uncover.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
I'm Nathaniel Frum.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
So even before 1981, Olson was well known to the RCMP. If not as a serial killer, certainly as a career criminal. And Glenn's right. In his entire adult life, Olson only spent around 1,700 days on the outside, not incarcerated. That's just a little over four and a half years. He was first imprisoned when he was 17, in the late 50s, for a break and enter.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
For the next 22 years, he'd be in and out of custody, tallying up more than 90 convictions. Put away for robberies, burglaries, and forgeries mostly, Olson, by all accounts a charming man, would sometimes be granted early release for good behavior. On other occasions, he had his sentence extended after escape attempts. But he kind of thrived inside.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
It was in prison that Olson honed a talent for gaining and dealing in information, a skill that could earn him favor with prison guards, parole boards, and the police. His greatest triumph on that front involved a man named Gary Marcoux.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
In 1976, Olson befriended Marcoux while they were both in prison in the B.C. penitentiary. Marcoux was facing charges of rape and murder.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
The case was at a standstill because the Crown prosecutor, a man named Bob Shantz, didn't feel there was enough evidence to convict. But Olson provided a lucky break. Olson came up with the idea to trick Marcoux into writing down a detailed confession to the murder, under the pretense that he'd help him come up with an alibi.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
Olson promptly sent the confession to British Columbia's Attorney General and continued to talk to Marcoux on the inside, gradually gathering more evidence. Marcoux eventually pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 25 years without parole, a sensational coup for Prosecutor Shantz and the foundation of Olson's relationship with the RCMP, and his reputation as an effective snitch.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
I grew up in the United States, even though both my parents are Canadian. So there are certain cultural icons north of the border that seem like a quirky novelty, as well as a source of pride to me as a kid. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police are a good example. Like Nelson Eddy during the golden age of Hollywood, singing Song of the Mounties in Rosemarie.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
a proud, noble police officer in his Red Surge uniform and Stetson hat mounted on his horse. The Mounties were the cartoon Dudley Do-Right, or square-jawed, upright constable Benton Fraser in the TV show Due South.
Sea of Lies from Uncover
S33 E3: The Mounties Always Get Their Man | Calls From a Killer
On July 25th, 1981, near a town named Agassiz, four campers came across human remains. They were soon confirmed to belong to Judy Cosma, a 14-year-old girl who had disappeared about two weeks earlier. She had been chalked up as another runaway.