Niall Collins

And as I said to you at the outset, we don't in government have the luxury of being able to speak to one side of the debate.

And Rory,

He just won't tell you where he's going to get the extra 11 billion euros that we need to close the gap.

Well, he's saying, yeah, he's saying he's in favour of it, but he's not saying how he's doing it.

You see, you have to give certainty for people to invest.

Can I just finish this point, please?

Can I just address that point?

Saying that you would get it from people's bank accounts, he hasn't demonstrated or confirmed how he would give people, how his policy would give those people who are obviously using their private, he's trying to leverage their private funding, how he would give them certainty in the marketplace.

And if you don't have certainty, people won't put their money

they won't make their money available for investment.

So what government has been trying to do, and I think, yes, it's a difficult journey, but it's a fundamental shift in our public policy.

We've tried to create that certainty where we can harness all of what's available in terms of

private finance to get it into the marketplace to help build and allow the private sector play its part in creating the proper number of housing and residential units.

Well, as I said to you at the top of this interview, the most criticism that I received as a public representative sitting on the government side of the House was from landlords.

And equally, I want to point out that the changes that we have made have absolutely strengthened the rights of tenants.

That's undisputed.

Their security of tenure is now

hugely enhanced.

And I think rightly so.

You're talking about security of tenure being enhanced.