Niall Donald

you know, Prince Andrew, you have to, you can only, you'd be hard-hearted to think that they should lock her up.

But even when they do lock people up, it doesn't always, it doesn't always run smooth, does it?

Because Ken Foy, our colleague who's on this podcast regularly, he had a great story about somebody who escaped from prison and then basically rang up and said, can I come back in?

I'm really sorry.

No, he's subject to disciplinary sanction, I think, in court.

Like, the open prisons, I think, people find them fascinating because, you know, it seems such a contradictory concept.

But Lock and House he was in, which is up in Cavan, and it's in a, you know, pretty isolated part of the country.

And, you know, it's, I mean, really, just like Shelton Abbey as well, they're...

effectively in the middle of nowhere yeah now you can walk in and walk out of that prison no problem I presume there's CCTV that'll record you coming in and out and there may even well be security on the doors but there's not this constant check people the door the gates aren't locked in Shelton Abbey I think you can just drive in yeah

So, you know, and the majority of, well, maybe not the majority, but a good number of those people are coming in and out every day.

So it's an escape, but it's really a walk, a walk out the door, like, you know.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, these people are at the end of their sentence and they don't get there.

Like they don't put, you know, criminals that are, you know, that they believe are going to... Be dangerous.

Be dangerous in there.

And they certainly don't put them in there if they, you know, people are going there for the last six months of their sentence to try and... Stephen Daly was in for quite a lengthy sentence, wasn't it?

It was...

Yeah, so he's coming to the end, presumably.

They try and let him have a bit of responsibility because obviously people become institutionalized and, you know, they need to be able to take a degree of responsibility for themselves in order to cope.

But yeah, it's, people don't know how easy it is to escape from prison, I suppose.